FBI official under investigation after allegedly altering document in 2016 Russia probe (DOJ IG Report thread) (2 Viewers)

[bdb13]

Washington (CNN) —

An FBI official is under criminal investigation after allegedly altering a document related to 2016 surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser, several people briefed on the matter told CNN.

The possibility of a substantive change to an investigative document is likely to fuel accusations from President Donald Trump and his allies that the FBI committed wrongdoing in its investigation of connections between Russian election meddling and the Trump campaign.

The finding is expected to be part of Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz's review of the FBI's effort to obtain warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act on Carter Page, a former Trump campaign aide. Horowitz will release the report next month.

Horowitz turned over evidence on the allegedly altered document to John Durham, the federal prosecutor appointed early this year by Attorney General William Barr to conduct a broad investigation of intelligence gathered for the Russia probe by the CIA and other agencies, including the FBI. The altered document is also at least one focus of Durham's criminal probe.

Exclusive: Former FBI lawyer under investigation after allegedly altering document in 2016 Russia probe - CNN Politics

A former FBI lawyer is under criminal investigation after allegedly altering a document related to 2016 surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser, several people briefed on the matter told CNN.

www-m.cnn.com

Terrible if true. Trump will obviously seize upon this.

 

[not2rich]

He has every right to assert executive privilege. If the Democrats disagree, they can resolve it in court.

That's well and good, as long as y'all stop hollering about how there's no "firsthand" testimony... since it would come from the people Trump is trying to prevent from testifying.

He has over 90% approval among Republicans. He's never going to be removed.

Unless approval rating determines what's right and wrong, not sure what this point has anything to do with the price of tea in China.

He has seen firsthand how unfair "the system" can be. Before you disagree, remember what thread you are in and what we saw today.

Right. If anyone has been treated unfairly by "the system" it's Trump.

Has it ever occurred to you that a former reality TV star may know a thing or two about manipulating public perception?

 

[SaintForLife]

The media has had a bad reputation for a while, but it's going to be much worse after all the repeated and blantant lies that were pushed about the Steele Dossier.

 

[SaintForLife]

Why would an FBI agent falsify a FISA application against a Presidential campaign besides severe bias?

 

[not2rich]

Why would an FBI agent falsify a FISA application against a Presidential campaign besides severe bias?

As to the tweet you posted, let me suggest this:

Q: Do you know that SaintForLift is not biased?

A: I don't know.

You think that is proof of bias?

As for the FISA application, you maybe should be asking about the procedure itself rather than questioning why an agent would "falsify' an application. There are obviously many other reasons than political bias (which I assume you mean), such as mistake, negligence, incompetence, and numerous motives to lie other than political bias.

 

[samiam5211]

Why would an FBI agent falsify a FISA application against a Presidential campaign besides severe bias?

Do you believe that the FISA on Carter Page was one of the most important pieces of the Russia investigation?

Do you believe that Russia actually interfered in the 2016 election, or were the entire results of the investigation fabricated?

 

[Archies Ghost]

As to the tweet you posted, let me suggest this:

Q: Do you know that SaintForLift is not biased?

A: I don't know.

You think that is proof of bias?

As for the FISA application, you maybe should be asking about the procedure itself rather than questioning why an agent would "falsify' an application. There are obviously many other reasons than political bias (which I assume you mean), such as mistake, negligence, incompetence, and numerous motives to lie other than political bias.

It is fairly obvious there was serious bias in the investigation.

Horowitz isn't stupid. He knows the Democrats are cornered and desperate and he would like to escape this episode with something of his career intact and keep the death threats to him and his family to a minimum. Plus he is a apparently a fairly good lawyer who knows that the investigatory role is not supposed to make judgments, only present the evidence.

An article yesterday expressed the obviousness of the bias fairly well.

The fact that every error benefited only one side is evidence of bias in itself.

One would expect incompetence to result in errors benefiting both sides of the issue.

Repeatedly omitting exculpatory information in an investigation is bias against the target of the investigation.

We know the FBI does not behave this way in every investigation so our choices are limited to widespread personal animus towards Carter Page throughout the people involved in Crossfire Hurricane, widespread personal animus towards Donald Trump throughout the people involved in Crossfire Hurricane, or widespread political bias against Donald Trump throughout the people involved in Crossfire Hurricane.

If I were taking bets I would go with the third since it is unlikely either Carter Page or Donald Trump had enough personal contact with the multiple Crossfire Hurricance teams to foster a true personal animus.

I do understand the desire to write this all off as incompetence on the part of the FBI. Doing otherwise requires one to admit that it is possible that DJT is not an enemy of the state who must be removed from office immediately. Lots of people are very invested in that idea and it will be hard to let even a small piece of that go.

 

[samiam5211]

The fact that every error benefited only one side is evidence of bias in itself.

I suspect that these type of errors in investigations almost never benefit the target of the investigation.

I would like the IG to do a comprehensive review of all FISA applications in the past 10 years or so to make sure these type of errors aren't far more common than we think.

 

[FullMonte]

I suspect that these type of errors in investigations almost never benefit the target of the investigation.

I would like the IG to do a comprehensive review of all FISA applications in the past 10 years or so to make sure these type of errors aren't far more common than we think.

There's no way the DOJ would allow that to happen. First off, and most importantly, if it were to show that these types of errors are more common, it would destroy the narrative that Trump was the victim of an organized coup attempt. Secondly, it would expose the FBI as being an agency that makes mistakes that end up hurting people.

 

[Archies Ghost]

I suspect that these type of errors in investigations almost never benefit the target of the investigation.

I would like the IG to do a comprehensive review of all FISA applications in the past 10 years or so to make sure these type of errors aren't far more common than we think.

That is an interesting position.

If what you propose is the truth, that the FBI routinely lies in order to continue investigations that the evidence doesn't warrant, we have an incredible law enforcement crisis on our hands.

I don't particularly believe that to be the case but I suppose it is possible.

I believe this is exactly what it appears to be.

 

[samiam5211]

That is an interesting position.

If what you propose is the truth, that the FBI routinely lies in order to continue investigations that the evidence doesn't warrant, we have an incredible law enforcement crisis on our hands.

I don't particularly believe that to be the case but I suppose it is possible.

I believe this is exactly what it appears to be.

I don't think most of the errors pointed out by the IG's report are serious. I suspect they are far more common than people realize, and while I think it should be cleaned up, it doesn't come anywhere near a "crisis".

 

[MT15]

Archie, it’s usually correct to assume the more common practical cause, rather than a widespread political conspiracy.

Investigative and prosecutorial overreach are seen in almost every part of law enforcement. It’s just a part of human nature. When you are pursuing people suspected of bad things you tend to do everything you can to give your efforts an edge or a boost. Especially if you see yourself as protecting the innocents (in local police, it’s the law abiding public. In this case, it’s national security).

So, instead of this common, human cause of error and bad judgement, you and others are propping up the idea that a conspiracy existed. That bands of federal agents, some of whom supported Trump, put their sworn duty aside and broke protocol (that they have spent their life upholding) in an effort to get Trump?

All this knowing how many different agents would have to be involved in this conspiracy? How many, who even voted for Trump, would have to then go along with a politically motivated hit job?

To me, the FISA parts are easily explained by common overreach and bad tactics. They need to be addressed, and the human tendency to act in these manners needs to be engineered out of the process. We do that in medicine all the time to try to eliminate human error.

But to indulge in the fantasy that the FBI is full of scum who were trying to overthrow the election is what is damaging this country.

 

[The moose]

I love that brother!

I don't know I would call it being a business. Give people other news if they are flipping? You notice all the commercials that is paying bills brother!

This is kinda like joke ya get mad if you don't show Graham acting well like Graham.

 

[Nebaghead]

Just read that Trump called the FBI scum at one of his rallies. How can anyone be ok with that? I guess FBI aren't included in the Blue Lives Matter stickers. Hypocrisy at its best.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-called-the-fbi-scum-at-a-pennsylvania-rally-2019-12

 

[Infoman]

Steele was running his own private intelligence firm, called Orbis, when Fusion contracted him in May 2016 to talk to his Russian sources about Trump. Fusion, in turn, had been hired by a law firm doing work for the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee

‘Crime in Progress’ Tells the Story Behind the Steele Dossier (Published 2019)

Glenn Simpson and Peter Fritsch, founders of the private intelligence firm Fusion GPS, write about what turned up in their investigation into Donald Trump’s ties to Russia.

www.nytimes.com

As noted, Horowitz establishes that the Steele report was crucial to the FISA process, even using the same language Nunes used (“essential”). He also confirms the Nunes assertion that the FBI double-dipped in citing both Steele and a September 23, 2016 Yahoo! news story using Steele as an unnamed source. Horowitz listed the idea that Steele did not directly provide information to the press as one of seven significant “inaccuracies or omissions” in the first FISA application.

'Corroboration Zero': An Inspector General's Report Reveals the Steele Dossier Was Always a Joke

The reports throws water on one “deep state” conspiracy theory of the Russia investigation, but validates complaints about “fake news”

www.rollingstone.com

Look, I find it hilarious that both sides here can watch and read the same things I watch and read, yet still see 2 completely different things... As I have stated many times... I am an Independent that didn't vote for... and doesn't trust Trump.... yet can't stomach the current utlra-Liberal version of the Democratic party (yet voted Dem JBE for LA Governor)...

IMO... from a completely unbiased standpoint, with no horse in this race... This looks like politically motivated bias from stem to stern...

And it looks like we have been feed this for over 2 years based on that bias... after we have been told repeatedly that none of this was true, and there was no bias...

This is why I have trust issues...

Somebody that's not a "complete hater of the opposing side" want to explain to me what I am missing here before I tune out?

I know everyone hates Graham, but this line of questioning and the answers by Horowitz kills the Dems Narrative from the start on all this IMO. (Not that it clears Trump - But now it gives his assertions some level of validity)

There were (Inaccurate, Mis-Leading, Omissions = Lies) to the court... There was bias in the request for surveillance... and the Steele report WAS essential to getting the FISA court to come along... and the Steele was on the DNC payroll.... altered E-mails by Lawyers.... what am I missing?

To call these things routine or more common than we think... seems highly unlikely. (or at least should be, and if not.... we need to tear the whole process down)




On top of all of that... Peter Strzok - You know - the former FBI agent who opened the bureau’s Russia probe in 2016... Was caught with these text messages on his phone :

The messages, sent on work phones, were critical of numerous politicians, but none more so than Trump, who Strzok derided as “abysmal” and a “disaster.”

In August 2016, after Page wrote Trump was “not ever going to become president, right? Right?!” Strzok responded: “No. No he’s not. We’ll stop it.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/peter-strzok-whose-anti-trump-texts-got-him-fired-from-the-fbi-sues-for-reinstatement/2019/08/06/eaf83060-b789-11e9-a091-6a96e67d9cce_story.html

What am I missing?

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

Maybe these questions have already been answered, but...

If the FBI at large was politically biased against the Trump campaign and opened up an investigation of the Trump campaign in 2016 for the purpose of harming Trump's election prospects, why didn't they just announce that the campaign was under investigation in 2016, the only time that it would have actually harmed his election prospects in 2016? The FBI Director publicly announced, on two separate occasions, that Trump's opponent was under FBI investigation, which I think most people would agree harmed her election prospects (particularly the second announcement very shortly before election day), and it seems simple enough to just also drop a similar announcement about Trump at the same time. Why would they keep the info under wraps and just allow him to be elected so they could engage in the Witch Hunt!!!!!! after he already won?

 

[Archies Ghost]

I don't think most of the errors pointed out by the IG's report are serious. I suspect they are far more common than people realize, and while I think it should be cleaned up, it doesn't come anywhere near a "crisis".

You haven't read the report or don't understand the implications of the "errors" if you don't think widespread behavior of this sort is a crisis.

 

[samiam5211]

You haven't read the report or don't understand the implications of the "errors" if you don't think widespread behavior of this sort is a crisis.

I have and I have.

Your analysis is noted.

 

[Archies Ghost]

Archie, it’s usually correct to assume the more common practical cause, rather than a widespread political conspiracy.

Investigative and prosecutorial overreach are seen in almost every part of law enforcement. It’s just a part of human nature. When you are pursuing people suspected of bad things you tend to do everything you can to give your efforts an edge or a boost. Especially if you see yourself as protecting the innocents (in local police, it’s the law abiding public. In this case, it’s national security).

So, instead of this common, human cause of error and bad judgement, you and others are propping up the idea that a conspiracy existed. That bands of federal agents, some of whom supported Trump, put their sworn duty aside and broke protocol (that they have spent their life upholding) in an effort to get Trump?

All this knowing how many different agents would have to be involved in this conspiracy? How many, who even voted for Trump, would have to then go along with a politically motivated hit job?

To me, the FISA parts are easily explained by common overreach and bad tactics. They need to be addressed, and the human tendency to act in these manners needs to be engineered out of the process. We do that in medicine all the time to try to eliminate human error.

But to indulge in the fantasy that the FBI is full of scum who were trying to overthrow the election is what is damaging this country.

We know that three separate iterations of Crossfire Hurricane investigators made multiple errors of omission or outright falsification over a period of at least 18 months and every instance of those "errors" benefited only one side of the issue in question.

These are the facts laid out by Horowitz.

If you choose to believe that is "common overreach" and "bad tactics" we really have no need to discuss the issue any further.

I don't believe the FBI is full of scum. I believe the leadership at the time engaged in a politically motivated investigation and hand picked the participants who engaged in the "errors". Multiple line agents involved in the investigation had concerns that were overruled.

It really doesn't surprise me that you are desperate to minimize the impact of this report but you only expose your own inability to overcome bias by minimizing this as everyday "common overreach", "bad tactics" or widespread incompetence.

Horowitz was very careful in his testimony but he also made it very clear that what he found was an extraordinary series of events.