FBI official under investigation after allegedly altering document in 2016 Russia probe (DOJ IG Report thread) (4 Viewers)

[bdb13]

Washington (CNN) —

An FBI official is under criminal investigation after allegedly altering a document related to 2016 surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser, several people briefed on the matter told CNN.

The possibility of a substantive change to an investigative document is likely to fuel accusations from President Donald Trump and his allies that the FBI committed wrongdoing in its investigation of connections between Russian election meddling and the Trump campaign.

The finding is expected to be part of Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz's review of the FBI's effort to obtain warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act on Carter Page, a former Trump campaign aide. Horowitz will release the report next month.

Horowitz turned over evidence on the allegedly altered document to John Durham, the federal prosecutor appointed early this year by Attorney General William Barr to conduct a broad investigation of intelligence gathered for the Russia probe by the CIA and other agencies, including the FBI. The altered document is also at least one focus of Durham's criminal probe.

Exclusive: Former FBI lawyer under investigation after allegedly altering document in 2016 Russia probe - CNN Politics

A former FBI lawyer is under criminal investigation after allegedly altering a document related to 2016 surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser, several people briefed on the matter told CNN.

www-m.cnn.com

Terrible if true. Trump will obviously seize upon this.

 

[Beach Friends]

There's no way the DOJ would allow that to happen. First off, and most importantly, if it were to show that these types of errors are more common, it would destroy the narrative that Trump was the victim of an organized coup attempt. Secondly, it would expose the FBI as being an agency that makes mistakes that end up hurting people.

“Given the extensive compliance failures we identified in this review, we believe that additional [Office of the Inspector General] oversight work is required to assess the FBI’s compliance with Department and FBI FISA-related policies that seek to protect the civil liberties of U.S. persons,” Horowitz wrote.


“Accordingly, we have today initiated an OIG audit that will further examine the FBI’s compliance with the Woods Procedures in FISA applications that target U.S. persons in both counterintelligence and counterterrorism investigations.”

Bombshell Buried in IG Report: OIG Initiating FBI Audit Over FISA Abuses Targeting US Citizens

Numerous concerning problems discovered by the IG over the Carter Page FISA warrant spurred a broader audit of the FBI's entire FISA warrant program.

www.westernjournal.com

 

[Beach Friends]

@MT15. Here is the clip I promised you.

 

[MT15]

We know that three separate iterations of Crossfire Hurricane investigators made multiple errors of omission or outright falsification over a period of at least 18 months and every instance of those "errors" benefited only one side of the issue in question.

These are the facts laid out by Horowitz.

If you choose to believe that is "common overreach" and "bad tactics" we really have no need to discuss the issue any further.

I don't believe the FBI is full of scum. I believe the leadership at the time engaged in a politically motivated investigation and hand picked the participants who engaged in the "errors". Multiple line agents involved in the investigation had concerns that were overruled.

It really doesn't surprise me that you are desperate to minimize the impact of this report but you only expose your own inability to overcome bias by minimizing this as everyday "common overreach", "bad tactics" or widespread incompetence.

Horowitz was very careful in his testimony but he also made it very clear that what he found was an extraordinary series of events.

Of course the errors were one sided, they were trying to prove their case. It’s human nature to be invested in your work, and sometimes fail to see something that doesn’t follow what you expect to see. This is common bias, not some shadowy political conspiracy. These agents are career professional employees. They are trained to be non political.

You like to point to what Horowitz said when it suits your narrative, but you reject his overall conclusion that there wasn’t a political motivation. Why is that?

Since when is “widespread incompetence” an attempt to minimize anything? Yes, it shows very troubling behavior that needs to be addressed. What is not shown is political bias and he made that clear.

I think calling me desperate is a bit of a stretch. The fact remains that the report doesn’t show the thing you wanted most, a “deep state” conspiracy against Trump. This is good news, in the same way that the finding that Trump didn’t actively conspire with Putin is good news. Right?

 

[FWtex]

It is fairly obvious there was serious bias in the investigation.

Horowitz isn't stupid. He knows the Democrats are cornered and desperate and he would like to escape this episode with something of his career intact and keep the death threats to him and his family to a minimum. Plus he is a apparently a fairly good lawyer who knows that the investigatory role is not supposed to make judgments, only present the evidence.

An article yesterday expressed the obviousness of the bias fairly well.

The fact that every error benefited only one side is evidence of bias in itself.

One would expect incompetence to result in errors benefiting both sides of the issue.

Repeatedly omitting exculpatory information in an investigation is bias against the target of the investigation.

We know the FBI does not behave this way in every investigation so our choices are limited to widespread personal animus towards Carter Page throughout the people involved in Crossfire Hurricane, widespread personal animus towards Donald Trump throughout the people involved in Crossfire Hurricane, or widespread political bias against Donald Trump throughout the people involved in Crossfire Hurricane.

If I were taking bets I would go with the third since it is unlikely either Carter Page or Donald Trump had enough personal contact with the multiple Crossfire Hurricance teams to foster a true personal animus.

I do understand the desire to write this all off as incompetence on the part of the FBI. Doing otherwise requires one to admit that it is possible that DJT is not an enemy of the state who must be removed from office immediately. Lots of people are very invested in that idea and it will be hard to let even a small piece of that go.

I think Horowitz did a very good job of getting all the facts he could possibly expect to get and then some. His report and his testimony was very damning to those involved and at times he was literally shaking his head in unfathomably dismay of what those characters were thinking in order to be so bad.

My only problem with Horowitz and his report is his bias conclusion. Why did he put that in his report, why has he repeated it often, and why did he not clarify it each time a Democrat brought it up?

He wrote he did not find evidence of political bias but under questioning he also said could not say there was no political bias. When Feinstein questione him directly by giving him a closed statement of, "you did not find political bias, is that correct?" he said correct. Why did he not also clarify that he could not say there was not political bias as he admitted to under republican questioning and why did he make his initial conclusion to begin with if he now clarifies he did not find evidence there was not political bias.

For such a thorough report and thorough testimony the "no bias" he put in the report is the only thing the MSM and the Democrats cared to focus on.

 

[samiam5211]

I think Horowitz did a very good job of getting all the facts he could possibly expect to get and then some. His report and his testimony was very damning to those involved and at times he was literally shaking his head in unfathomably dismay of what those characters were thinking in order to be so bad.

My only problem with Horowitz and his report is his bias conclusion. Why did he put that in his report, why has he repeated it often, and why did he not clarify it each time a Democrat brought it up?

He wrote he did not find evidence of political bias but under questioning he also said could not say there was no political bias. When Feinstein questione him directly by giving him a closed statement of, "you did not find political bias, is that correct?" he said correct. Why did he not also clarify that he could not say there was not political bias as he admitted to under republican questioning and why did he make his initial conclusion to begin with if he now clarifies he did not find evidence there was not political bias.

For such a thorough report and thorough testimony the "no bias" he put in the report is the only thing the MSM and the Democrats cared to focus on.

Pretty much the mirror image of the Mueller report with regard to collusion. He could not find enough evidence to prosecute conspiracy, which the Republicans translated to "No Collusion".

 

[Archies Ghost]

Of course the errors were one sided, they were trying to prove their case. It’s human nature to be invested in your work, and sometimes fail to see something that doesn’t follow what you expect to see. This is common bias, not some shadowy political conspiracy. These agents are career professional employees. They are trained to be non political.

You like to point to what Horowitz said when it suits your narrative, but you reject his overall conclusion that there wasn’t a political motivation. Why is that?

Since when is “widespread incompetence” an attempt to minimize anything? Yes, it shows very troubling behavior that needs to be addressed. What is not shown is political bias and he made that clear.

I think calling me desperate is a bit of a stretch. The fact remains that the report doesn’t show the thing you wanted most, a “deep state” conspiracy against Trump. This is good news, in the same way that the finding that Trump didn’t actively conspire with Putin is good news. Right?

You are incorrect when you say his overall conclusion was that there was no political motivation.

In his oral testimony he reiterated this by saying although they did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of political bias, they did not get satisfactory answers to the questions.

Miscellaneous relevant quotes

 

[MT15]

Okay, Archie, then Trump must have committed a crime during the campaign, or shortly after election, correct? Because although Mueller found no absolute proof of the crime of conspiracy, he could not say that his report exonerated the President of any crimes.

It is like you don’t even read and digest what I say, you just grab a word and run to google to find something to rebut.

It seems to me you are conflating the Page FISA application errors with the rest of the FBI investigation. There were serious issues with the FISA, but that didn’t involve the Trump campaign investigation, IIRC. I saw commentary that no information from the Page FISA was used in any of the indictments that Mueller generated. I seem to remember Horowitz being much clearer about the beginning of the FBI investigation.

Where are you pulling your screen shots from? In the interest of transparency, I think you should link your sources if you can.

 

[samiam5211]

You are incorrect when you say his overall conclusion was that there was no political motivation.

In his oral testimony he reiterated this by saying although they did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of political bias, they did not get satisfactory answers to the questions.

Miscellaneous relevant quotes

There is much more in the Mueller report that suggests collusion or at least unspoken cooperation between Trump and Russia than there is evidence that political bias substantively impacted the FBIs investigation.

Do you ever think back to Trump saying “Russia, if you’re listening...”, now that we know about the Don Jr Trump tower meeting? He knew they were listening. Don Jr was asked in an email if he was interested in help from the Russian government to get dirt on Clinton. Don Jr said “I love it.” This was before Trumps “joke”. No one disputes any of this. It is part of the record.

He knew Russia was listening.

Carter Page certainly has a case to make that the government violated his civil rights. The FBI should be held to a higher standard, but we also have to accept that any organization made up of humans will fail from time to time.

I think Carter Page should sue the government unless it turns out that he was CIA and for some reason knew about the FISA ahead of time without the FBI knowing he was CIA. Anyone who has worked for the government will tell you that it’s not a monolith. Cooperation between agencies can be limited or nonexistent. It is very possible that the CIA would let the FBI get a FISA on a source without letting them know they were working together.

 

[FullMonte]

Okay, Archie, then Trump must have committed a crime during the campaign, or shortly after election, correct? Because although Mueller found no absolute proof of the crime of conspiracy, he could not say that his report exonerated the President of any crimes.

It is like you don’t even read and digest what I say, you just grab a word and run to google to find something to rebut.

It seems to me you are conflating the Page FISA application errors with the rest of the FBI investigation. There were serious issues with the FISA, but that didn’t involve the Trump campaign investigation, IIRC. I saw commentary that no information from the Page FISA was used in any of the indictments that Mueller generated. I seem to remember Horowitz being much clearer about the beginning of the FBI investigation.

Where are you pulling your screen shots from? In the interest of transparency, I think you should link your sources if you can.

I think the bigger issue is this...unless I'm mistaken, conflating the Page application with the rest of the investigation is even worse, because from what I've heard, the surveillance on Page didn't actually return any evidence of wrongdoing. So, while those errors were made, it's not like they led to the FBI improperly obtaining any actual evidence.

 

[MT15]

I think Horowitz did a very good job of getting all the facts he could possibly expect to get and then some. His report and his testimony was very damning to those involved and at times he was literally shaking his head in unfathomably dismay of what those characters were thinking in order to be so bad.

My only problem with Horowitz and his report is his bias conclusion. Why did he put that in his report, why has he repeated it often, and why did he not clarify it each time a Democrat brought it up?

He wrote he did not find evidence of political bias but under questioning he also said could not say there was no political bias. When Feinstein questione him directly by giving him a closed statement of, "you did not find political bias, is that correct?" he said correct. Why did he not also clarify that he could not say there was not political bias as he admitted to under republican questioning and why did he make his initial conclusion to begin with if he now clarifies he did not find evidence there was not political bias.

For such a thorough report and thorough testimony the "no bias" he put in the report is the only thing the MSM and the Democrats cared to focus on.

I think you also may be conflating the FISA errors with the rest of the FBI investigation.

 

[Beach Friends]

I think the bigger issue is this...unless I'm mistaken, conflating the Page application with the rest of the investigation is even worse, because from what I've heard, the surveillance on Page didn't actually return any evidence of wrongdoing. So, while those errors were made, it's not like they led to the FBI improperly obtaining any actual evidence.

Unless of course you are Page.

 

[MT15]

Unless of course you are Page.

well, sure, but totally beside the point made, which is valid. We have a two pronged report, and those who must be horribly disappointed that Comey isn’t under indictment already are taking the criticisms from the IG about the Page FISA and applying those criticisms to the origins of the FBI investigation into the Trump campaign.

In the case of some members of conservative media it surely must be deliberate.

 

[Archies Ghost]

Okay, Archie, then Trump must have committed a crime during the campaign, or shortly after election, correct? Because although Mueller found no absolute proof of the crime of conspiracy, he could not say that his report exonerated the President of any crimes.

It is like you don’t even read and digest what I say, you just grab a word and run to google to find something to rebut.

It seems to me you are conflating the Page FISA application errors with the rest of the FBI investigation. There were serious issues with the FISA, but that didn’t involve the Trump campaign investigation, IIRC. I saw commentary that no information from the Page FISA was used in any of the indictments that Mueller generated. I seem to remember Horowitz being much clearer about the beginning of the FBI investigation.

Where are you pulling your screen shots from? In the interest of transparency, I think you should link your sources if you can.

Since it is obvious that you are only interested in the Trump angle on this I am not going to bother to type a wall of text.

I will point out your fundamental errors.

The first is equating the absence of evidence of wrongdoing in one investigation and the absence of evidence of motivation for wrongdoing in the other investigation.

The idea that the initiation and subsequent Carter Page FISA application have nothing to do with the Trump investigation is ridiculous on the face.

Horowitz also pointed out what many consider the most egregious sin the FBI committed. The FBI sent an agent to perform a defensive briefing to President Trump with an undisclosed second purpose to gather evidence on the President. Wray immediately said that steps would be taken to make sure that NEVER happens again.

The defense of the bad actors in the FBI in this matter is very telling and, frankly, frightening if your opinion is shared by millions of your fellow travelers. You (in a collective sense) have become what you think Trump is or you (again collectively) always were and have been projecting for the past three years.

 

[samiam5211]

Since it is obvious that you are only interested in the Trump angle on this I am not going to bother to type a wall of text.

I will point out your fundamental errors.

The first is equating the absence of evidence of wrongdoing in one investigation and the absence of evidence of motivation for wrongdoing in the other investigation.

The idea that the initiation and subsequent Carter Page FISA application have nothing to do with the Trump investigation is ridiculous on the face.

Horowitz also pointed out what many consider the most egregious sin the FBI committed. The FBI sent an agent to perform a defensive briefing to President Trump with an undisclosed second purpose to gather evidence on the President. Wray immediately said that steps would be taken to make sure that NEVER happens again.

The defense of the bad actors in the FBI in this matter is very telling and, frankly, frightening if your opinion is shared by millions of your fellow travelers. You (in a collective sense) have become what you think Trump is or you (again collectively) always were and have been projecting for the past three years.

The Carter Page FISA did not provide any useful information for the investigation.

The outcome of the Russia investigation was not impacted by the Carter Page FISA.

 

[MT15]

Archie, for the fourth or fifth time, I have never defended “bad actors” my only reason to question you (collective you) is your insistence on pounding a square peg into a round hole.

you said it yourself, the absence of proof of political bad intent. Yet, you insist on writing in your own predisposed notions of a “deep state” conspiracy and that is ridiculous on its face. You are just making up the intent to serve your own purposes.

and you are correct, in your first point. The Trump campaign obviously had the intent to do wrong, they wanted to conspire with Wikileaks and the Russians, they just didn’t get the job done.

 

[SaintForLife]

Do you believe that the FISA on Carter Page was one of the most important pieces of the Russia investigation?

Do you believe that Russia actually interfered in the 2016 election, or were the entire results of the investigation fabricated?

I do think the FISA on Page was one of the most important pieces of the Russia investigation. Page became the face for the justification for the Trump Russia investigation. Someone needs to go to jail for falsifying the FISA application.

For the thousandth time yes I think Russia tried to influence our election, but I think it's influence been vastly overstated. How many times will you guys keep asking that question?

 

[SaintForLife]

I don't think most of the errors pointed out by the IG's report are serious. I suspect they are far more common than people realize, and while I think it should be cleaned up, it doesn't come anywhere near a "crisis".

Really? Falsifying information on the FISA warrant, 51 Woods Procedure violations and 17 serious problems cited by the IG report isn't a crisis?

The case against the Trump campaign was so strong that the FBI had to create fraudulent evidence and alter emails so it could lie to a court that already approves 99.8% of all warrants.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

I do think the FISA on Page was one of the most important pieces of the Russia investigation. Page became the face for the justification for the Trump Russia investigation. Someone needs to go to jail for falsifying the FISA application.

For the thousandth time yes I think Russia tried to influence our election, but I think it's influence been vastly overstated. How many times will you guys keep asking that question?

The very report you are citing does not agree with you. Your opinion that Page was one of the most important components of the investigation has no basis in fact.

Page was neither the impetus for the investigation into the Trump Campaign nor the primary source of evidentiary support to continue it. The IG Report, The Muller Report, and a number of witness testimonials all back that up.