FBI official under investigation after allegedly altering document in 2016 Russia probe (DOJ IG Report thread) (1 Viewer)

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Brandon13

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Washington (CNN) —
An FBI official is under criminal investigation after allegedly altering a document related to 2016 surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser, several people briefed on the matter told CNN.

The possibility of a substantive change to an investigative document is likely to fuel accusations from President Donald Trump and his allies that the FBI committed wrongdoing in its investigation of connections between Russian election meddling and the Trump campaign.

The finding is expected to be part of Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz's review of the FBI's effort to obtain warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act on Carter Page, a former Trump campaign aide. Horowitz will release the report next month.

Horowitz turned over evidence on the allegedly altered document to John Durham, the federal prosecutor appointed early this year by Attorney General William Barr to conduct a broad investigation of intelligence gathered for the Russia probe by the CIA and other agencies, including the FBI. The altered document is also at least one focus of Durham's criminal probe.

Terrible if true. Trump will obviously seize upon this.
 

samiam5211

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Terrible if true. Trump will obviously seize upon this.
Yea. I hope anyone who acted in violation or law are held accountable.

I’m interested to see the details of what was altered and what evidence they have to substantiate it.

It may give Carter Page a good argument for a lawsuit. It doesn’t really change anything about what we know about what Russia did in 2016, in fact, us fighting about it will play right into their hands.
 

BobE

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Terrible if true.
I want 100% full prosecution, if true

Trump will obviously seize upon this.
I have no doubt. Though I will reserve judgement to blame him or not till we find out exactly what happened.
 

Dadsdream

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I want 100% full prosecution, if true

I have no doubt. Though I will reserve judgement to blame him or not till we find out exactly what happened.
Agreed. Motive for the changes is as relevant as what was changed.
It's a criminal investigation. Let the chips fall where they may.
 

crosswatt

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Horowitz’s investigators conducted more than 100 witness interviews in their review. During one of the interviews this year, they confronted the witness about the document. The witness admitted to the change, the sources said.

Wow. So I'm intrigued as to whether or not the alteration was super obvious or how they found it/found out who did it? And I hope the information as to what was changed isn't classified, so we can see what it was and what it was changed to.
 

MT15

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I’m also a bit weary of people throwing around the treason stuff. Nope this isn’t treason. Nothing has been treason that has been called treason from either side. It’s annoying as crap.

I hope we find out the whole story.
 

Dadsdream

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Thanks BobE. I just tuned in. CNN is saying a. report will be issued on Dec 9.
Anderson Cooper looks like somebody just ran over his dog.
Horowitz will testify on Dec 11.
 

crosswatt

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Thanks BobE. I just tuned in. CNN is saying a. report will be issued on Dec 9.
Anderson Cooper looks like somebody just ran over his dog.
Horowitz will testify on Dec 11.
I actually don't blame them one bit. They're probably having nightmare flashbacks to the day after Mark Fuhrman's testimony. where crime was committed, and where you have a pretty good inclination as to who committed it, and your ability to prove it is going to be impacted by one person's idiocy and dishonesty.

There was something like thirty-four indictments from the Mueller report. That's thirty-four people who committed crimes associated with the 2016 election.

And we now have pretty concrete evidence that something against the law occurred involving aid and Ukraine, the only questions left being what level of illegal activity, be it a high crime or just something that needs to now be written clearly into the law to not happen again in the future.

At the center of both is a man who has been dirty and dishonest his entire life. A man who has always advanced his interest over anyone elses. A man who has been self-absorbed and self-important and completely selfish in terms of every facet of his life. And who has had zero trouble breaking the law or having others break the law on his behalf throughout his entire career, and we can I think safely assume back into his college days. Someone who, if I described to you the opposite of what I think a good man should be, would not only check the boxes, but fill them in neatly without going outside the lines.

So, for the record, we have two instances of organized illegal activity. And at the center of both is this man who is Been a white collar marauder his entire public life. And he's going to somehow have zero of this fall at his feet now because of one guy editing one document?

Yeah, I won't lie. If this somehow legitimately works out that the law was broken in a way that benefited him, I'm going to be pretty upset. And I hope the rogue editor ends up getting put underneath the jail.
 

Dadsdream

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I actually don't blame them one bit. They're probably having nightmare flashbacks to the day after Mark Fuhrman's testimony. where crime was committed, and where you have a pretty good inclination as to who committed it, and your ability to prove it is going to be impacted by one person's idiocy and dishonesty.

There was something like thirty-four indictments from the Mueller report. That's thirty-four people who committed crimes associated with the 2016 election.

And we now have pretty concrete evidence that something against the law occurred involving aid and Ukraine, the only questions left being what level of illegal activity, be it a high crime or just something that needs to now be written clearly into the law to not happen again in the future.

At the center of both is a man who has been dirty and dishonest his entire life. A man who has always advanced his interest over anyone elses. A man who has been self-absorbed and self-important and completely selfish in terms of every facet of his life. And who has had zero trouble breaking the law or having others break the law on his behalf throughout his entire career, and we can I think safely assume back into his college days. Someone who, if I described to you the opposite of what I think a good man should be, would not only check the boxes, but fill them in neatly without going outside the lines.

So, for the record, we have two instances of organized illegal activity. And at the center of both is this man who is Been a white collar marauder his entire public life. And he's going to somehow have zero of this fall at his feet now because of one guy editing one document?

Yeah, I won't lie. If this somehow legitimately works out that the law was broken in a way that benefited him, I'm going to be pretty upset. And I hope the rogue editor ends up getting put underneath the jail.
Hi Crosswatt,

I think we should let the process play itself out. As I said, the motives of the person or persons who altered the evidence in FISA applications are at least as important as what they altered.

Nasty accusations that I was engaging in "conspiracy theories" and spreading a "false narrative" when I asserted my belief the FISA process had been deliberately subverted did cross my mind last night. I doubt there will be any apologies or even an admission that my assertions may have contained a kernel of truth.

Instead, we're going to see exactly what we're seeing here - DJT is a bad man who shouldn't be president and people were convicted of wrongdoing regardless of how the FISA warrants were obtained.

Really, I never liked the man. I didn't watch his TV show. I don't like his voice. I don't like his smug, condescending, holier-than-thou attitude. I don't like his HAIR.

But, if what they were saying on CNN last night turns out to be true, that an FBI employee deliberately altered the evidence that was used to obtain the FISA warrants, the entire investigation comes into question. Certainly, the lawyers for those who were convicted will gear up for appeals with a real chance of getting the convictions overturned.

Frankly, I'm sick of the unending effort to remove the president by any means necessary or paint him as a bad man who shouldn't be president.

Just vote him out of office.

Nice talking with you, Crosswatt, as always.
 

crosswatt

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Hi Crosswatt,

I think we should let the process play itself out. As I said, the motives of the person or persons who altered the evidence in FISA applications are at least as important as what they altered.

Nasty accusations that I was engaging in "conspiracy theories" and spreading a "false narrative" when I asserted my belief the FISA process had been deliberately subverted did cross my mind last night. I doubt there will be any apologies or even an admission that my assertions may have contained a kernel of truth.

Instead, we're going to see exactly what we're seeing here - DJT is a bad man who shouldn't be president and people were convicted of wrongdoing regardless of how the FISA warrants were obtained.

Really, I never liked the man. I didn't watch his TV show. I don't like his voice. I don't like his smug, condescending, holier-than-thou attitude. I don't like his HAIR.

But, if what they were saying on CNN last night turns out to be true, that an FBI employee deliberately altered the evidence that was used to obtain the FISA warrants, the entire investigation comes into question. Certainly, the lawyers for those who were convicted will gear up for appeals with a real chance of getting the convictions overturned.

Frankly, I'm sick of the unending effort to remove the president by any means necessary or paint him as a bad man who shouldn't be president.

Just vote him out of office.

Nice talking with you, Crosswatt, as always.
He is, in my opinion, a bad man who shouldn't be president. And he has been participatory in activities that are, at best, unworthy of the office, and at worst impeachable actions. And that we may have discovered the fire that has caused so much black smoke via an illegal action is disheartening to me. Because it is a sign of where the Patriot Act (which was just extended via a rider attached to the the short term spending bill, for those who may not have noticed) has devalued what were once accepted constitutional rights, and because it tarnishes the entire exposure of dirty dealings in the mind of some. And the agent who admitted to altering the document should face the maximum sentence available under the law.

I'll quote a letter by my former congressman Scott Rigell, that he wrote as he left the Virginia GOP, and I think it stands as a very clear truth even moreso today:

So what kind of role model would Trump be to the next generation of Republicans? Short on ideas? Belittle your adversary! Need an edge on the disadvantaged? Mock them! Want others to think you're a strong leader when running for a party leadership position? Just keeping jabbing your finger in your opponent's face! Have differences with a veteran? Challenge his honor and service to our country!

It all leads to one clear, irrefutable conclusion: Trump is a bully, unworthy of our nomination. My love for our country eclipses my loyalty to our party, and to live with a clear conscience I will not support a nominee so lacking in the judgement, temperament and character needed to be our nation's commander-in-chief. Accordingly, if left with no alternative, I will not support Trump in the general election should he become our Republican nominee.

An impostor has slipped through the net. Trump is not a Republican. Unlike Trump, the true Republican party is good, decent and fair. Unlike Trump, the true Republican party believes we can love our neighbor while fighting for our country.

My fellow Republicans, how much more must we see to know that his heart does not reflect our values and creed? How much more must we hear of his flip-flops on issues fundamental to our party to know that his convictions run shallow?Everything I have learned in life about leadership, about business, and about our incredible country tells me to pull every alarm in the house. A con man is among us.


And I hate that he's allowed and even encouraged to be this guy and still be supported by those who should know better.

And I hate that I have to search for platform items that I can somewhat get on board with in the Democratic primary field, because too many of the planks don't appeal to my political sensibilities, but I cannot in good conscience support him or what is now his party.

And I hate that I'm forced to defend media coverage and companies that I normally would be the first to criticize simply because other incredibly incompetent and wholeheartedly diabolical media entities are finding a footing in our collective consciousness.

I hate what we've become, and this horrible man's role in all of it, and that I don't see a pathway out of it anytime soon.
 

crosswatt

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Frankly, I'm sick of the unending effort to remove the president by any means necessary or paint him as a bad man who shouldn't be president.
I'll cede to your correct and applicable statement earlier in this thread for my feelings on this specific sentence.

It's a criminal investigation. Let the chips fall where they may.
 

xpuma20x

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But, if what they were saying on CNN last night turns out to be true, that an FBI employee deliberately altered the evidence that was used to obtain the FISA warrants, the entire investigation comes into question. Certainly, the lawyers for those who were convicted will gear up for appeals with a real chance of getting the convictions overturned.
This is for sure an interesting situation when it comes to criminal trials. A person could (insert crime here) someone, go to trial, admit they (insert same crime) someone, get convicted and sentenced, but then freed because one stupid individual investigating falsified a document related to the investigation. On one hand, you want to make sure that people are doing the right thing and not presenting false information just to haul people to jail or into court. On the other hand, they did what they were convicted of. I agree with everyone else, if someone did falsify information, they need to be convicted just like everyone else.
 

JimEverett

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Insane if true. An absolutely incredible abuse of power with systems that allow it to go unnoticed, i.e. the FISA system.

As far as I can tell though - CNN is the only source. So there is more than a decent chance it is flat out untrue or they have omitted substantial details.
 

crosswatt

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Insane if true. An absolutely incredible abuse of power with systems that allow it to go unnoticed, i.e. the FISA system.

As far as I can tell though - CNN is the only source. So there is more than a decent chance it is flat out untrue or they have omitted substantial details.
That is weird. No other sources are picking it up yet? And it seems illogical in light of CNN's typical biases. I'm kind of intrigued by this now.
 

insidejob

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That is weird. No other sources are picking it up yet? And it seems illogical in light of CNN's typical biases. I'm kind of intrigued by this now.
There was absolutely no mention of this on MSNBC this morning. I didn't hear about it until I saw this thread. It sure is strange that only CNN is running what would be such a big story.
 

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