Drag Queens in society -what's appropriate and what isn't (4 Viewers)

[VoxPopuli]

There has been an interest in discussing the role of drag queens in the public arena, and what is appropriate with children. This specifically was an area of concern:



So, are there dangers present in transgenders reading stories to children. If so, what are they? What is government's role in this? Is it a local or federal issue?

 

[Joe Okc]

I am just amazed that people here can find, defend and encourage this... I really can't.. Call me a strip club DJ with a conscience. And honestly, I really don't care what you think of me at this point. But my respect for some may have fallen down a step.

All in the name of Progress...
Here's a professional photo shoot with a 10 year old Drag kid and an Adult Drag Male.
And to encourage toddlers and pre-schoolers to be part of it?
If this is Woke. You can keep it.

 

[Incumbent]

Who is defending that photo?

What I think is problematic is you’re taking an extreme incident and trying to make it into something much bigger to justify an opinion you want to cling to.

Really, though, going back to cuddlemonkey’s initial response, this is a lot of time spent debating the drag community in a thread about transgender, that’s missing the larger discussion.

Noted that the OP has edited to clarify the topic is about drag culture.

 

[Joe Okc]

Noted that the OP has edited to clarify the topic is about drag culture.

This thread was never really about Drag culture or transgender. For some reason my thread was deemed that it needed to be deleted and re-worded so the conversation would go a little more the way other people wanted it to I guess.

My original thread was actually more about Children trying to be introduced or indoctrinated to alternative lifestyles and sexual orientation at too early an age and society's wokeness and willingness to push this agenda by using children's stories, TV shows and Talking Teddy bears.

In plain terms I have continues to use Desmond is Amazing as an example. His mother forced Drag TV shows on him since he was 2 years old. Took him to live drag and gay parages as he grew up.. He became professional Drag kid at 9... He declared that he was gay at 9. His mother took him to dance at gay clubs for men. He has done Internet TV broadcasts with gay men who happen to have been Murders and spent year in prison for not only murder, but where the body was disfigured and dumped in the bay. A person that SHE herself looked up to and wrote. I suspect that this is fulfilling the desires of the mother, or she is making financial gain off Desmod being a Drag Kid... It is a clear example of the parent altering the life of a child for her own benefit.


But yet people here are actually saying that this poor kid just found something that he was attracted to... The kid never had a snowballs chance of being anything other than what he is now.

But as dtc says. This is the right of the parent. And I am not trying to single him out. Because really I am amazed at how many people here are coming to the defense of this.

ANd in closing.. Kids are impressionable... I just wonder how many boys now want to be drag kids, not because they have the tendency to do so, but because they will get the attention that Desmond is getting.

Check this Tip for the kids on the TV show. Actual encouragement for children to start dressing up.. in drag.

 

[insidejob]

This thread was never really about Drag culture or transgender. For some reason my thread was deemed that it needed to be deleted and re-worded so the conversation would go a little more the way other people wanted it to I guess.

My original thread was actually more about Children trying to be introduced or indoctrinated to alternative lifestyles and sexual orientation at too early an age and society's wokeness and willingness to push this agenda by using children's stories, TV shows and Talking Teddy bears.

In plain terms I have continues to use Desmond is Amazing as an example. His mother forced Drag TV shows on him since he was 2 years old. Took him to live drag and gay parages as he grew up.. He became professional Drag kid at 9... He declared that he was gay at 9. His mother took him to dance at gay clubs for men. He has done Internet TV broadcasts with gay men who happen to have been Murders and spent year in prison for not only murder, but where the body was disfigured and dumped in the bay. A person that SHE herself looked up to and wrote. I suspect that this is fulfilling the desires of the mother, or she is making financial gain off Desmod being a Drag Kid... It is a clear example of the parent altering the life of a child for her own benefit.


But yet people here are actually saying that this poor kid just found something that he was attracted to... The kid never had a snowballs chance of being anything other than what he is now.

But as dtc says. This is the right of the parent. And I am not trying to single him out. Because really I am amazed at how many people here are coming to the defense of this.

ANd in closing.. Kids are impressionable... I just wonder how many boys now want to be drag kids, not because they have the tendency to do so, but because they will get the attention that Desmond is getting.

Check this Tip for the kids on the TV show. Actual encouragement for children to start dressing up.. in drag.

and check this flyer for the gay Pride in Oregon.. It has a Kid as it's picture and it clearly says,, :Bring the Kids."

If bringing the kids to a parade that has drag queens in it (hell, this is just a gay pride parade) was indoctrinating kids to be drag queens (or gay in this case), most of us who grew up in New Orleans would be drag queens or gay. Between just Mardi Gras and then things like Decadence, most of us were exposed to all of this as children just from growing up here and I don't think anyone was ever indoctrinated because of it. I can only speak for myself though. Anyone from New Orleans here who went to Mardi Gras in the quarter with their parents as kids get indoctrinated? Decadence as a tween/teenager?

 

[Incumbent]

I'm working on a reply but in the meantime, the flyer is apparently a fake.

(Notice: link is to a LGBTQ site if you need to take that in consideration before clicking)

How a Fake “Pedophile Pride” Poster Tried to Target Oregon’s LGBTQ Community

Haters used a stolen photo of a child drag star to make Central Oregon Pride look like a NAMBLA event.

www.them.us

 

[Joe Okc]

If bringing the kids to a parade that has drag queens in it (hell, this is just a gay pride parade) was indoctrinating kids to be drag queens (or gay in this case), most of us who grew up in New Orleans would be drag queens or gay.

Taking kids to a parade that has Drag Queens in it and taking kids to Pride are two totally different things... Were your parents encouraging you to dress in Drag to go to the parade? Did they take you to the gay/drag part of New Orleans after the parade was over?

Prolly not, so your comparison is not even in the ballpark.

 

[Joe Okc]

I'm working on a reply but in the meantime, the flyer is apparently a fake.

(Notice: link is to a LGBTQ site if you need to take that in consideration before clicking)

How a Fake “Pedophile Pride” Poster Tried to Target Oregon’s LGBTQ Community

Haters used a stolen photo of a child drag star to make Central Oregon Pride look like a NAMBLA event.

www.them.us

I have edit out the flyer in the above post.. Since it was false I have removed it.

 

[insidejob]

Taking kids to a parade that has Drag Queens in it and taking kids to Pride are two totally different things... Were your parents encouraging you to dress in Drag to go to the parade? Did they take you to the gay/drag part of New Orleans after the parade was over?

Prolly not, so your comparison is not even in the ballpark.

Ummm, I went with my family all over the quarter on Mardi Gras night for years starting when I was like 6. So, yes, they took me to Bourbon and St. Ann as well as the Cat's Meow, Pat O'Briens, etc.. It's Mardi Gras. My parents didn't take me to decadence fest, but I was already hanging out in the quarter by 14 so I didn't need them to. I went on my own and didn't catch the gay.

So, yeah, my comparison is spot on. Oh, and btw, they had no problem with me dressing in drag as a costume for Mardi Gras the few times I did it.

 

[insidejob]

I have edit out the flyer in the above post.. Since it was false I have removed it.

The fact that you assumed it was real in the first place is the problem. You believe anything that fits your narrative and assume it's automatically true. If I'd have been able to see the NAMBLA logo on the bottom of the flyer, I'd have called it out as BS before even bothering to reply to your post.

 

[Farb]

No.

You're wrong, and I seriously doubt you have actually talked to gay men and women who think dressing in drag is sexual.

Well then here we are. You can believe what you want, and I will continue to be correct. When is the last time you were at a drag show?

 

[Heathen]

Nice Try... But Unfortunately, if you ignore queer kids stuff tv, it won't go away either...

Not going to argue or debate this anymore . . I think it's wrong to try and convince young toddlers and small children that this lifestyle is fun and exciting by using cartoons, tv shows, teddy bears and story books.... That's my stance.

and for anyone who says "It's not something I'd take my kids to, but I support it".. Well, if you think it's not right for your kids, then it's not right for other kids either....

Yeah, itd be terrifying if kids found out at an earlier age that there are so many types of people in this world. I can't help but think some of this stems from the fear that kids might 'catch teh ghey'. Seriously, if they want to be a drag queen, why is that detrimental? Most kids won't, in all likelihood, but they will learn that not everything some deem as 'gross' is that way and it is just people being people.

 

[Joe Okc]

The fact that you assumed it was real in the first place is the problem. You believe anything that fits your narrative and assume it's automatically true. If I'd have been able to see the NAMBLA logo on the bottom of the flyer, I'd have called it out as BS before even bothering to reply to your post.

I admited my error and corrected it. I was wrong... BUt I am not wrong about Desmond sitting doeing a tv interview with two gay men, one a murderer and the poster behind them with the Rphypn printed on it... The Murderer is the the left.

I am glad that your parents took you to Mardi Gras... I am glad that they let you dress in drag because it was YOUR choice as you grew older and were able to make that decision on your own when you got to the age that you were able to start making those decisions. Thats kind of my point. They let you be a kid and did not force things upon you as you were a otddler or pre schooler.. Your trips to Mardi Gras were family events... Not specialized visits to alternative lifestyles. Big Difference.

 

[Heathen]

To be perfectly honest, you can share with your wife that Beach Friends thinks that it is incredibly silly to open meetings sharing preferred pronouns. When people want to show an example of wokeness ruining everything, they point (and frequently laugh) at Portland. It's one of those progressive jewels where you can find college kids screaming at homeless people to check their "privilege."

Truly insane.

But, she may disagree.

Yes, because Portland's edge cases as we all know happens to be a synopsis of an entire generation and political affiliation.

 

[Incumbent]

This thread was never really about Drag culture or transgender. For some reason my thread was deemed that it needed to be deleted and re-worded so the conversation would go a little more the way other people wanted it to I guess.

My original thread was actually more about Children trying to be introduced or indoctrinated to alternative lifestyles and sexual orientation at too early an age and society's wokeness and willingness to push this agenda by using children's stories, TV shows and Talking Teddy bears.

In plain terms I have continues to use Desmond is Amazing as an example. His mother forced Drag TV shows on him since he was 2 years old. Took him to live drag and gay parages as he grew up.. He became professional Drag kid at 9... He declared that he was gay at 9. His mother took him to dance at gay clubs for men. He has done Internet TV broadcasts with gay men who happen to have been Murders and spent year in prison for not only murder, but where the body was disfigured and dumped in the bay. A person that SHE herself looked up to and wrote. I suspect that this is fulfilling the desires of the mother, or she is making financial gain off Desmod being a Drag Kid... It is a clear example of the parent altering the life of a child for her own benefit.


But yet people here are actually saying that this poor kid just found something that he was attracted to... The kid never had a snowballs chance of being anything other than what he is now.

But as dtc says. This is the right of the parent. And I am not trying to single him out. Because really I am amazed at how many people here are coming to the defense of this.

ANd in closing.. Kids are impressionable... I just wonder how many boys now want to be drag kids, not because they have the tendency to do so, but because they will get the attention that Desmond is getting.

Check this Tip for the kids on the TV show. Actual encouragement for children to start dressing up.. in drag.

and check this flyer for the gay Pride in Oregon.. It has a Kid as it's picture and it clearly says,, :Bring the Kids."

Most childhoods are heavily shaped by indoctrination, if we're being honest, covering everything from religion, to politics, to gender role-conformity, to sport teams, to pastimes. Some of it sticks, some of it doesn't.

I'm not overly invested in Desmond's story, apart from sharing some of your concerns, because I don't get the impression his experience is particularly common. I've said that I don't think adult entertainment venues are places for minors, particularly very young kids, but that doesn't appear to be a huge societal problem, so I don't spend much time dwelling on it. Mostly, if what is reported about his life is true, this is more so an example of terrible parenting. Similarly, the parents who let their young heterosexual, gender-typical son roam freely and behave badly aren't indicative of parents who are putting in the work and effort, and their obnoxious son isn't a shining example of what it means to be a straight boy in America. It's probably true that kid never really had a chance, either.

I've offered thoughts about concerns that I think are more pressing and damaging to young people, but you prefer to stay stuck on Desmond and what you think is indoctrination into alternative lifestyles. That might be happening, but I think it's a greater problem that we live in a time when members of the LGBTQ community are still struggling for acceptance and equal treatment. This can be particularly damaging to young LGBTQ members, who are reportedly vulnerable to high rates of depression, self-harm, and suicide.

I think you are under the impression that some people can't possibly know at a very young age that they fall on the LGBTQ spectrum, or demonstrate traits that raise that consideration in others. Do you think a child can be confident at an early age that they are heterosexual?

I recall a neighbor growing up (I'll call him "Sam") who, at a very young age, demonstrated different interests than the rest of the boys on the street, like making up dance routines to pop songs that he'd perform outside and in the garage, probably so his mom didn't have to listen to the blaring music in the house. His Dad was a firefighter, his family was Italian Catholic, and they projected a typical southern, middle class existence. One of Sam's cousins was a classmate who my sisters and I kept in touch with over the years. Sam grew up to be gay and is, last I heard, happily married to his husband.

There's a young actor, Josie Totah, formerly JJ Totah, who was male-assigned at birth and has since transitioned. I can't speak at all to what her upbringing was like, but having seen her in roles on sitcoms (Back in the Game, Champions) as a boy, her personality was very characteristically effeminate and, I think, it was reasonable to suspect she was, at least, likely gay. Sometimes the indications are pretty plainly there. (None of this should be misconstrued as an attempt to deny the existence of varying personality types in the LGBTQ community.)

Sexual orientation, interests, and identity can be a difficult and painful part of development for many people, and that's especially true for those struggling with gender identity. Particularly with the complexities involved if pursuing anatomical reassignment. I think there are valid concerns from every angle. My hope is that young people going through that have supportive people around, all are committed to becoming educated and informed, and that thorough psychological counseling and assessment are provided.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Well then here we are. You can believe what you want, and I will continue to be correct. When is the last time you were at a drag show?

Do you believe that it's possible to have an all ages drag show?

 

[V Chip]

This thread was never really about Drag culture or transgender. For some reason my thread was deemed that it needed to be deleted and re-worded so the conversation would go a little more the way other people wanted it to I guess.

Calling out moderators.

In plain terms I have continues to use Desmond is Amazing as an example. His mother forced Drag TV shows on him since he was 2 years old. Took him to live drag and gay parages as he grew up.. He became professional Drag kid at 9... He declared that he was gay at 9. His mother took him to dance at gay clubs for men. He has done Internet TV broadcasts with gay men who happen to have been Murders and spent year in prison for not only murder, but where the body was disfigured and dumped in the bay. A person that SHE herself looked up to and wrote. I suspect that this is fulfilling the desires of the mother, or she is making financial gain off Desmod being a Drag Kid... It is a clear example of the parent altering the life of a child for her own benefit.

First off, she didn't force Drag TV shows on him. Stop with that nonsense.

Second, I agree with you regarding his mother being a "stage mom" and pushing him more into the limelight and not being careful enough with his appearances with other people. She very likely might be selfishly making money off him, and your last statement I wouldn't be surprised one bit if that is true (since I haven't spent nearly as much time obsessing over this story as you have -- although I tend to doubt your sources given your history in this thread alone, cursory searches on the Internet have turned up enough valid criticisms that like I said it wouldn't surprise me).

However, what SO MANY of us are saying and you are steadfastly ignoring is that this specific incident has NOTHING to do with drag culture in general, or LBGTQ, or transgender, or any of that. This kind of stuff happens all too often in heterosexual/cisgendered/non-drag culture. We have story after story of stage parents pushing their kids and making money off them (and their kids sometimes even later in life sue the parents and become estranged). Yes, it's sad and pathetic. Yes, this kind of overbearing stuff can damage the kid(s). But again, it is not even remotely unique to the subcultures that you seem to be railing against and complaining about people being "woke" since you seem to stress that word as if it were an epithet.

 

[V Chip]

Well then here we are. You can believe what you want, and I will continue to be mistaken. When is the last time you were at a drag show?

A few months ago? The drummer from a cover band I was in when I lived in New Orleans is now well-known in the New Orleans drag scene, and I have attended a couple of his shows. How about you?

 

[Farb]

Do you believe that it's possible to have an all ages drag show?

A drag show? No, I am 100% against the sexual objectification of children.