Does Trump ever do any jail time? (2 Viewers)

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Optimus Prime

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Everything I've seen and heard says that the split second Donald Trump is no longer president there will be flood of charges waiting for him

And if he resigns and Pence pardons him there are a ton of state charges as an understudy waiting in the wings if the fed charges can't perform

What do you think the likelihood of there being a jail sentence?

In every movie and TV show I've ever seen, in every political thriller I've ever read about a criminal and corrupt president there is ALWAYS some version of;

"We can't do that to the country",

"A trial would tear the country apart",

"For the nation to heal we need to move on" etc.

Would life imitate art?

Even with the charges, even with the proof the charges are true will the powers that be decide, "we can't do that to the country"?
 
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wardorican

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The Justice Department filed court papers Monday signaling that it would accept a former chief federal judge in New York as a special master charged with reviewing papers seized by the FBI from former president Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club.

U.S. District Judge Aileen M. Cannon must approve Raymond J. Dearie’s appointment for the document review — which has stalled the Justice Department’s criminal probe — to go forward. Dearie was proposed by Trump’s lawyers last week, amid a legal battle over whether a special master should review the documents to determine whether any should be kept from federal prosecutors investigating the potential mishandling of classified material and the possible hiding, tampering or destruction of government records.
 
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Optimus Prime

Optimus Prime

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There has been a good deal of discussion about what would happen if Donald Trump were indicted for absconding from the White House with government documents.

What precedent would it set?

Would his supporters explode in violence that would threaten the stability of the nation?

If he were to become president again, how terrible would his vengeance be?


But no one seems to be asking about the practical consequences of not indicting Trump, if the investigation produces sufficient evidence to charge him with a crime.


Rather than venturing into that territory, those arguing in favor of such an indictment have made a simple case: Laws are laws, and anyone who breaks them should be held accountable. There’s no passage in the Constitution saying former presidents get to commit crimes.

As Hillary Clinton put it over the weekend, “If the evidence proves or seems to show that there are charges that should be leveled, then I think the rule of law should apply to anyone.”

On the other side, Trump’s defenders have made two sets of claims.

The first, offered by only the most enthusiastic cultists — the ones who also believe Trump is an ethical businessman who pays his taxes, deeply respects women and would never tell a lie — is that he is completely innocent.


The second claim — the one more sane Republicans have gravitated toward — is that even if Trump broke the law, we should cut him a little slack.

We wouldn’t want to turn into one of those countries where new presidents prosecute their predecessors, and it already looks bad for the Justice Department to be investigating a former commander in chief…….

 

Saintamaniac

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We wouldn’t want to turn into one of those countries where new presidents prosecute their predecessors, and it already looks bad for the Justice Department to be investigating a former commander in chief…….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/12/not-prosecuting-trump-most-dangerous/
Trump committing crimes while in office has turned us into one of those countries where TFG is prosecuted. IMO, if we had ripped the bandage off and charged Nixon, we would be done with that non-sensical talking point. Either we as nation will continue to preach that no one is above the law or we as a nation will begin saying no one is above the law unless it's best for the nation to ignore the crimes committed by the previous guy.

I mean, what if Trump murdered someone? Do we ignore charging him because his supporters don't believe he committed the murder even though he's still holding the murder weapon and telling the world how the victim deserved to be murdered? F him and the people who believe this bullshirt about not prosecuting for the good of the country. The good of the country if for laws to apply to EVERYONE. If trump supporters want to throw their lives away behind a lie, then I say let's oblige them.
 
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Optimus Prime

Optimus Prime

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I mean, what if Trump murdered someone? Do we ignore charging him because his supporters don't believe he committed the murder even though he's still holding the murder weapon and telling the world how the victim deserved to be murdered? F him and the people who believe this bullshirt about not prosecuting for the good of the country. The good of the country if for laws to apply to EVERYONE. If trump supporters want to throw their lives away behind a lie, then I say let's oblige them.
 

Bigdaddysaints

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Trump committing crimes while in office has turned us into one of those countries where TFG is prosecuted. IMO, if we had ripped the bandage off and charged Nixon, we would be done with that non-sensical talking point. Either we as nation will continue to preach that no one is above the law or we as a nation will begin saying no one is above the law unless it's best for the nation to ignore the crimes committed by the previous guy.

I mean, what if Trump murdered someone? Do we ignore charging him because his supporters don't believe he committed the murder even though he's still holding the murder weapon and telling the world how the victim deserved to be murdered? F him and the people who believe this bullshirt about not prosecuting for the good of the country. The good of the country if for laws to apply to EVERYONE. If trump supporters want to throw their lives away behind a lie, then I say let's oblige them.
100% yes, they would still defend him no matter if he was holding the smoking gun..
 

superchuck500

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That would be a bad argument overall.

First question. Are any of the documents still classified?

There's no evidence that they wouldn't be. They're marked classified, top secret, and even TS/SCI. That's the highest level of general classification. There's no evidence whatsoever that suggests that they are no longer classified.
 

GrandAdmiral

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Interesting...

 

FullMonte

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There's no evidence that they wouldn't be. They're marked classified, top secret, and even TS/SCI. That's the highest level of general classification. There's no evidence whatsoever that suggests that they are no longer classified.
and if they are marked classified, they must be treated as such until they have been properly marked as declassified.
 

superchuck500

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and if they are marked classified, they must be treated as such until they have been properly marked as declassified.

I'm not sure - I would imagine that the act of declassification would take precedence over a marking (in other words, if a document that had been declassified still had markings on it, I would think it's still declassified despite the marking). But I don't really know about that, perhaps you're right.

But more importantly, there is no evidence that these documents were ever declassified. Trump has said that publicly and his supporters have argued it - but there's no evidence of that, and (tellingly) Trump has not taken that position in any official filing. I think Bill Barr is right when he said that if you consider what this material appears to be, and that some of it is TS/SCI with markings that indicate it is human source material, casually declassifying the material is more troublesome than him simply having it.
 

Bigdaddysaints

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We all know he likes to make up rules as he goes along. I think he truly believes that all he has to do is say they are declassified and his word is as good as documentation, even after his term was up.
 

FullMonte

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I'm not sure - I would imagine that the act of declassification would take precedence over a marking (in other words, if a document that had been declassified still had markings on it, I would think it's still declassified despite the marking). But I don't really know about that, perhaps you're right.

But more importantly, there is no evidence that these documents were ever declassified. Trump has said that publicly and his supporters have argued it - but there's no evidence of that, and (tellingly) Trump has not taken that position in any official filing. I think Bill Barr is right when he said that if you consider what this material appears to be, and that some of it is TS/SCI with markings that indicate it is human source material, casually declassifying the material is more troublesome than him simply having it.
Yeah, all of the training I’ve had dealing with classified material will say that if a document is marked XXXXXX, then it must be stored in this manner….Everything that refers to storage, handling, shipping, access, and destruction uses the marking of the document as the relevant determining factor. Also, declassification says that once the document has been properly marked as declassified, it can be handled as such.

But, yeah, Trump’s public statements are so much worse. They are, in essence, “No, I didn’t have these secrets stored in a manner where there was a chance someone without authorization might have gotten access….I made it to where anyone who wanted it could just ask for it and get it.”
 

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