Critical race theory (3 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Frankly, I'm completely ignorant when it comes to the Critical Race Theory curriculum. What is it, where does it come from, and is it legitimate? Has anyone here read it and maybe give a quick summary?

If this has been covered in another thread, then I missed it.

 

[V Chip]

I think it is 100% garbage. Most everyone else does too.

Chapter 13, In which Farb lets slip who he thinks are the only people worth considering.

 

[Saintman2884]

Veered off-topic? Not entirely. The entire Euro-centric concept of civilization has Christianity as one of its underpinnings. We have heard excuses such as the slaves were taught Christianity so slavery was good for them. Utter bullschlitz. Slavery was monetary in nature as well as groupism in nature. The Africans were "savages" and therefore sub-human. And don't let us forget the "White Man's Burden." Hiostory is loaded with one group claiming some innate superiority over other groups. What utter nonsense.

Christianity didnt begin the African slave trade, it started in and around before, and even during the Crusader periods where Arab slave merchants kidnapped, enslaved white, former European Crusader knights and ethnic North Africans, even sent slave expeditions to sub-Saharan regions centuries before the European Age of Exploration got in on the act, beginning with the Portuguese and Spanish and many medieval Muslims, intellectuals defended it on religious and economic reasons.

So, if we bit from the apple to commit the original sin of slavery, our Euro-centric norms werent the first to crunch in for a huge, disturbing bite metaphorically, and literally.

 

[RebSaint]

Christianity didnt begin the African slave trade, it started in and around before, and even during the Crusader periods where Arab slave merchants kidnapped, enslaved white, former European Crusader knights and ethnic North Africans, even sent slave expeditions to sub-Saharan regions centuries before the European Age of Exploration got in on the act, beginning with the Portuguese and Spanish and many medieval Muslims, intellectuals defended it on religious and economic reasons.

So, if we bit from the apple to commit the original sin of slavery, our Euro-centric norms werent the first to crunch in for a huge, disturbing bite metaphorically, and literally.

No. No other forms of slavery existed in the western or eastern world, or the New World for that matter until African slavery. Name for me one form of slavery that was almost exclusivey race-based and based on expanding the matrix of merchant capitalism on a global basis? Name for me one forced diaspora which was so wide-spread?

It doesn't mean you have feel guilt about being white, or even being an American. It's about coming to grips of a grim, but unfortunate part of our history.

 

[Saintman2884]

Well, the tooth fairly doesn't teach anything, but we were discussing beliefs, not teachings. As for QAnon, it is a radical Christian movement, making extraordinary claims of a Satan worshiping cabal, that God sent Trump who is the stubborn king of the west of the prophesy, etc.. So no need for research there.

As for Aquinas, I don't hold him in high regard as some great thinker, nor give him the credit you give him.

And to touch on the OP's topic: Aquinas justified the Inquisition and the execution of non-Christians - in this case, I am drawing a parallel between race and belief. His idea of mercy was to give heretics the chance to recant their non-belief, but if they didn't, then he thought they should be put to death. You touch up on plagiarism below, and Aquinas' most famous argument is the Kalam with nicer, more extensive words.

So, no, I don't hold anything Aquinas said about virtue or reasoning in high regard.


So is the story of Jesus, the account of the flood, etc, but that doesn't stop you from believing those stories. As for Scientology, or even Mormon, at least we know who wrote the book.


And?


It's their time; they can use it anyway they see fit. There is historical value to ancient documents, but because an ancient document has historical value, it doesn't mean what the document claims is fact. The Popol Vu has great historical significance, but very few people believe Itzamná created the universe.



Well, let's see... in a nutshell: documents found by Bedouins in caves on the West bank just as Israel was being forcibly established. Originally 7 fragments were discovered, but then fragments started popping everywhere (up to 900+ today, I think?). The Bedouins who found them promptly started selling them to collectors. It wasn't until an Act was signed that Israel recovered some of those fragments. When 3rd party sources have tested fragments, they have been proven to be forgeries, most notably the fragments owned by the Museum of the Bible in D.C. , which were acquired from 4 different sources, yet testing proved the fragments were the exact same type of forgery.

So you tell me.

Dude, most of these older Essenes documents hadn't been forking seen in nearly over 2,000 years, and these same Bedoun tribesmen had no forking clue what they were looking at or understood their significance of, historically because they were illiterate. Come on, dude, be a little more understanding and realistic of that situation. If it werent for those illiterate Bedioun tribesmen, one of the 20th century's greatest archeological discoveries would still be undiscovered and you likely, wouldn't see too much interest in it since you think most of the discoveries were shirtty, 3rd rate fragments.

Just because you know who forking wrote Dianetics or how much of a repressive, authoritian soul-destroying cult Scientology is doesn't count as an answer or a rational explanation, and if you ever try comparing Scientology, Seventh Day Adventists their teachings, or rituals to Christianity or mainstream Catholicism, you'll get laughed out of the room and your credibility will be decimated, atheist, antitheist, irreligious _____ one views on religion might be.

You should really not read too much on what some ancient Greco-Roman philosophers said, or made comments because you'll find even Plato, Socrates, Aristotle and even Ovid, Virgil made by our standards racist, sexist, misgyonist, or proto-racial supremacist arguments or statements about non-Greek, "barbaric" Persian, Jewish, Egyptian cultures and civilizations. The ancient Greeks, even the most educated philosophes, the all-knowing, holier-than-thou Socrates believed their culture, customs, language were second to none, other, more older civilizations like Jews, Egyptians, Bablynonians, Persians were decadent, older, decayed societies which contained limited intellectual insights, and were "barbaric". Herodotus wrote that Alexander the Great got upset with many of his generals, soldiers, fellow Macedonian Greeks about their loathing, cultural elitism, ethnocentric hostility towards conquered territories, regions which were centuries older and more advanced then the Greeks.

 

[Saintman2884]

No. No other forms of slavery existed in the western or eastern world, or the New World for that matter until African slavery. Name for me one form of slavery that was almost exclusivey race-based and based on expanding the matrix of merchant capitalism on a global basis? Name for me one forced diaspora which was so wide-spread?

It doesn't mean you have feel guilt about being white, or even being an American. It's about coming to grips of a grim, but unfortunate part of our history.

Reb, we both know better then that and we're aware that the European African slave trade didnt just start suddenly as a practice but was learned about, observed from a distance from Spanish and European Crusaders who saw Arab merchants, traders capturing, kidnapping and enslaving indigenous African tribesmen like Berbers all across North Africa and parts of sub-Saharan Africa. The Trans-Saharan and Indian Ocean slave trade werent on the same scales, in size, and scope and length of duration as the New World slave trade in the Americas, Caribbean until really the 1830's when the UK, France and other major remaining European imperial powers outlawed slavery throughout their empires (France did in 1848).

http://en.m.wikipedia. org/wiki/Trans-Saharan_slave_trade

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean_slave_trade

 

[SystemShock]

There is a lot of silverware in those comments, but anyway

Dude, most of these older Essenes documents hadn't been forking seen in nearly over 2,000 years, and these same Bedoun tribesmen had no forking clue what they were looking at or understood their significance of, historically because they were illiterate.
Come on, dude, be a little more understanding and realistic of that situation. If it werent for those illiterate Bedioun tribesmen, one of the 20th century's greatest archeological discoveries would still be undiscovered and you likely, wouldn't see too much interest in it since you think most of the discoveries were shirtty, 3rd rate fragments.

Or maybe those Bedouins just knew enough
I'll briefly touch upon a story about someone I am related to, who fooled accredited programs into buying fake Meso-American artifacts, one of them Tulane, back in the 1950's. How they found out the artifacts were fake, long story short, there was a bottle cap inside one of the artifacts.

There was this shroud you may have heard about...

We know for a fact that many - if not the majority - of the fragments of the so called Dead Sea scrolls are forgeries. But even if indeed there are some fragments of text that are authentic, sure, they would be an important archaeological discovery, but wouldn't prove any claim they make to be true. There are older religious writings, and they are important archaeological discoveries, but that doesn't make the claims within them factual.

Just because you know who forking wrote Dianetics or how much of a repressive, authoritian soul-destroying cult Scientology is doesn't count as an answer or a rational explanation, and if you ever try comparing Scientology, Seventh Day Adventists their teachings, or rituals to Christianity or mainstream Catholicism, you'll get laughed out of the room and your credibility will be decimated, atheist, antitheist, irreligious _____ one views on religion might be.

The only people who would "laugh me out of the room" would be people who believe on faith what I consider fairy tales, so I am good with that. I don't believe in souls, so meh. And of all people, you, who can't miss an opportunity to type walls of text about history (and some pseudo-history too), you come up with such a statement. If one reads a Bible and knows the history of the Catholic church, unless one lacks critical thinking and/or is completely blinded by faith, one cannot make the statement you just made.

Besides, I am not claiming to be an authority. My argument is not "trust me", nor am I making extraordinary, unfalsifiable, proof-devoid claims.

You may not think Scientology and Christianity have much in common, but they do. Matter of fact, all religions overlap: they have a god or gods who created the universe and humanity, have some sort of afterlife, have lists of things the god or gods want you/don't want you to do so you get into the preferred afterlife...

...and there is no proof of any of it
... and they all need money.

Surely the details vary from religion tor religion, but at their core, they all are the same, especially the ancient religions: attempts to explain the world around us, control the masses, and/or reach some level/place beyond our mortal lives.

But hey, at least the Seventh Day Adventists get the Sabbath right.

You should really not read too much

You really, really can't help yourself. Stop telling people why the believe or assume. It is a very cheap and ineffective tactic.

blah blah blah

Nothing to do with anything.

 

[Saintman2884]

No. No other forms of slavery existed in the western or eastern world, or the New World for that matter until African slavery. Name for me one form of slavery that was almost exclusivey race-based and based on expanding the matrix of merchant capitalism on a global basis? Name for me one forced diaspora which was so wide-spread?

It doesn't mean you have feel guilt about being white, or even being an American. It's about coming to grips of a grim, but unfortunate part of our history.

There is a lot of silverware in those comments, but anyway


Or maybe those Bedouins just knew enough
I'll briefly touch upon a story about someone I am related to, who fooled accredited programs into buying fake Meso-American artifacts, one of them Tulane, back in the 1950's. How they found out the artifacts were fake, long story short, there was a bottle cap inside one of the artifacts.

There was this shroud you may have heard about...

We know for a fact that many - if not the majority - of the fragments of the so called Dead Sea scrolls are forgeries. But even if indeed there are some fragments of text that are authentic, sure, they would be an important archaeological discovery, but wouldn't prove any claim they make to be true. There are older religious writings, and they are important archaeological discoveries, but that doesn't make the claims within them factual.


The only people who would "laugh me out of the room" would be people who believe on faith what I consider fairy tales, so I am good with that. I don't believe in souls, so meh. And of all people, you, who can't miss an opportunity to type walls of text about history (and some pseudo-history too), you come up with such a statement. If one reads a Bible and knows the history of the Catholic church, unless one lacks critical thinking and/or is completely blinded by faith, one cannot make the statement you just made.

Besides, I am not claiming to be an authority. My argument is not "trust me", nor am I making extraordinary, unfalsifiable, proof-devoid claims.

You may not think Scientology and Christianity have much in common, but they do. Matter of fact, all religions overlap: they have a god or gods who created the universe and humanity, have some sort of afterlife, have lists of things the god or gods want you/don't want you to do so you get into the preferred afterlife...

...and there is no proof of any of it
... and they all need money.

Surely the details vary from religion tor religion, but at their core, they all are the same, especially the ancient religions: attempts to explain the world around us, control the masses, and/or reach some level/place beyond our mortal lives.

But hey, at least the Seventh Day Adventists get the Sabbath right.


You really, really can't help yourself. Stop telling people why the believe or assume. It is a very cheap and ineffective tactic.


Nothing to do with anything.

Scientology and Christianity aren't the same things. One is a religion and one is a cult, which is actually banned or has been banned in several European countries. You can leave Christianity or stop being a Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Reform Jew, or a Buddhist, and more often then not, maybe some of your relatives or older friends might not get along with you as well, but you won't be labeled a " Suppressive Person" and have your friends and family cut you off by their Scientology superiors/handlers. Watch Leah Remini's The Aftermath: Leaving Scientology the 3-season series on Netflix. They would go out of their way to make yours and mines lives a proverbial hell if we crossed them, and I'm a believer. Constant harassment, bullying, verbal or veiled threats, mostly subtle ones from private investigators. Hiring other Scientologists to spread false rumors, speculation about you online, defame your reputation, try to get in verbal confrontations or MAGA-like taunts.

Actually, if you talk to Biblical historians, theologians, theyll say that from the Genesis story of asking Abraham to bind Isaac to sacrifice him. That was told from a perspective of a diety saying, I don't want people offering or sacrificing things to me, like their own children, or say their king or monarch rules by divine right, no I just want you to live a good, honest, upstanding life and try not to murder, steal, covet another man's wife, etc. For the writers of the Old and New Testaments, this was seen or perceived as a radical, religious notion. That how we treat other human beings and one another is far more important then trying to devise ways to maintain his favor or other gods' blessings. The old Norse Viking pantheon, if you're familiar with some of the old sagas, could be very generous in how they favored certain individuals, but also very fickle and seemingly more interested in how one should try to keep pleasing them so they wouldn't withdraw their favoritism. With the Old Norse Viking pantheon, what you made of your life, worked, lived, raided was how they were going to perceive you. There werent likely to give too many people special pre-emptive breaks. If one wanted to reach Valhalla, well thats up to you.

In terms of how cults and religions are structured, yes even athiests, agnostics who are more knowledgable then you would laugh you out of the room and it would have nothing to do with religion or personal belief, whatsoever. There are atheists and agnostics who are theologians, and they might take exception to some of your comments, professionally. My professor of Lutheranism and the Protestant Reformation in 16th century Germany was an atheist but I once saw him get visibly angry when one of his colleagues said studying world religions or doing comparative studies on them was a waste of time because that had been his life's work. This professor of mine at USA, was also one of the best, most intelligent men I ever have the privilege of meeting and knowing.

Despite that, I think our back-and-forth conversation of replies was engaging and educational, System. We don't agree on many things, but who cares as long as we can disagree in a civil, respectful manner unlike those idiotic, mind-blocked MAGA insurrectionists who shout, scream, and yell debunked, illogical claims, or untrue statements.

With that, I'm signing out of this thread. Ive said my peace and I'm comfortable with it, for the most part.

 

[bird]

Christianity didnt begin the African slave trade, it started in and around before, and even during the Crusader periods where Arab slave merchants kidnapped, enslaved white, former European Crusader knights and ethnic North Africans, even sent slave expeditions to sub-Saharan regions centuries before the European Age of Exploration got in on the act, beginning with the Portuguese and Spanish and many medieval Muslims, intellectuals defended it on religious and economic reasons.

So, if we bit from the apple to commit the original sin of slavery, our Euro-centric norms werent the first to crunch in for a huge, disturbing bite metaphorically, and literally.

Oh, no doubt. Humans have always believed “the other” was sub-human and therefore deserving of whatever treatment they received. Intense tribalism is alive and ill.

 

[coldseat]

I think it is 100% garbage. Most everyone else does too.

I know, I will let you all collect yourselves. I know I threw you guys for a loop!

Y'all have a good Memorial Day weekend. Remember those brave men and women that gave all in defense of the best country this world has ever seen and so others may also live free (ish).

I think there's a lot of erasure when it comes to the history of racial violence and it's effects in this country and that's not by accident. It's much easier to indoctrinate and mislead when you control what is taught. After all, we're all equal, so the past doesn't matter. That will just make people feel uncomfortable and introduce tension.

Burned from the land: How 60 years of racial violence shaped America

The Tulsa race massacre of 1921 was one of the worst acts of racial violence in American history. It was also part of a larger pattern of assault, one that targeted communities of color across the country. Learn more in this installment of “History Refocused.”

www.cnn.com

 

[SystemShock]

Scientology and Christianity aren't the same things. One is a religion and one is a cult

What's the difference between a cult and a religion?
The difference between Scientology and Christianity are that Christianity has been around for much longer, been imposed on countless cultures by the sword, and has branched out into different sects, but at their core, they are the same.

which is actually banned or has been banned in several European countries.

... and they shouldn't stop there

You can leave Christianity or stop being a Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Reform Jew, or a Buddhist, and more often then not, maybe some of your relatives or older friends might not get along with you as well, but you won't be labeled a " Suppressive Person" and have your friends and family cut you off by their Scientology superiors/handlers. Watch Leah Remini's The Aftermath: Leaving Scientology the 3-season series on Netflix. They would go out of their way to make yours and mines lives a proverbial hell if we crossed them, and I'm a believer. Constant harassment, bullying, verbal or veiled threats, mostly subtle ones from private investigators. Hiring other Scientologists to spread false rumors, speculation about you online, defame your reputation, try to get in verbal confrontations or MAGA-like taunts.

And again, this is how the religion angle ties in with CRT, where the R could easily stand for religion:

If you declare yourself an atheist, they may not use that specific label - after all, atheist is already a dirty word - but the repercussions are very real. There are many supports around the world who deal with this. In the U.S., individuals get rejected by family, friends, neighbors, receive death threats, are run out of town... try running for office in the U.S. being an atheist.

Or how about being Muslim? How would the U.S. react if the tables were turned in Israel?

And given your affinity for history, I am sure you are aware of what went on during the different inquisitions, how indigenous people were forced and tricked into religion, etc.

And speaking of MAGA, who are the biggest supporters of it?

Actually, if you talk to Biblical historians, theologians, theyll say that from the Genesis story of asking Abraham to bind Isaac to sacrifice him. That was told from a perspective of a diety saying,

How arrogant of them, to pretend to 1. pretend to know what God thinks and 2. to change the message of the Holy Book.

The text in Genesis 22 is very clear, God tested Abraham to make sure Abraham feared God. (G:22-1 After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.”; G:22-12 He said, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God And how cruel that episode is: God granting a child (male, of course) to Abraham at a very late stage in his life, then commanding Abraham to kill his son, then Abraham going along with the elaborate process to kill his son (would you sacrifice your child to save yourself?); then just as Abraham was about to do the deed, he's given a goat to sacrifice - which begs the question, why sacrifice a goat at that point?

I don't want people offering or sacrificing things to me,

What about the goat?

That how we treat other human beings and one another is far more important then trying to devise ways to maintain his favor or other gods' blessings.

How you treat other human beings would be a way to maintain God's favor. Too bad homosexuals, pagans, the Midianites, countess slaves, et al didn't get the benefit of secular morality.

The old Norse Viking

Irrelevant tangent.

In terms of how cults and religions are structured, yes even athiests, agnostics who are more knowledgable then you would laugh you out of the room and it would have nothing to do with religion or personal belief, whatsoever.

They would not, I guarantee you that.

There are atheists and agnostics who are theologians, and they might take exception to some of your comments, professionally. My professor of Lutheranism and the Protestant Reformation in 16th century Germany was an atheist but I once saw him get visibly angry when one of his colleagues said studying world religions or doing comparative studies on them was a waste of time because that had been his life's work. This professor of mine at USA, was also one of the best, most intelligent men I ever have the privilege of meeting and knowing.

Who is saying anything about wasting time? Oh, it was you. I never said studying religions is a waste of time. On the contrary, I encourage people to truly study their religion as well as other religions. The religious classes I took at Loyola were some of the most interesting classes I took in college.

But the caveat is that one needs to study one's own religion as one would study other religions, not just engage in apologetics for their own religion trying to shoehorn ancient writings into modern times while poo-pooing the other religions' fantastic claims.

 

[Saintman2884]

What's the difference between a cult and a religion?
The difference between Scientology and Christianity are that Christianity has been around for much longer, been imposed on countless cultures by the sword, and has branched out into different sects, but at their core, they are the same.

At their core, now, you decide to extend the goal posts. Most scholars, theologians, historians would disagree with you on that. You can assume and laugh at me and pretend they wouldn't, but they would. And besides, what you just stated was a personal opinion , then a fact. Actually, the first 3 centuries of Christianity's existence when it was banned as a "mystery religion", by the Romans, most conversions that took place were voluntary and not forced. It was only after Constantine's Edict of Milan, gradual consolidation and edicts favoring Christianity (even though Constantine didn't convert until on his death bed), and his heirs making Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire and then after the western Roman Empire fell, the Byzantines made it their own and Christianity was pushed, forcibly and aggressively converted on the various Germanic tribes who overran the Roman Empire(Saxons, in particular, Visigoths, Vandals, Ostrogoths, and then later old Norse Scandivinavian Vikings) quite a few Germanic tribes, like Franks, did willingly convert to Christianity more so for political reasons because they saw how fast the religion was spreading throughout their kingdoms and realized embracing Christianity made administrating their empires easier. In terms of Iron Age post-Roman Britain, because their were 4 regional kingdoms administering modern-day England, Christianity spread sporadically and gradually. In some regions, even until the early modern era, there were some syncretic sects who combined old pre-Christian traditions with Roman Catholic Saints.

As far as paganism goes, the word "pagan" was originally a pejorative term "paganos", just like "heathen", and it was coined by polytheistic Romans who viewed Old Germanic tribes as worshiping, strange, totemic sky and tree gods, and viewed them as savage and barbaric, and backward. It wasnt Christian missionaries who wiped out the ancient Druid priestly classes on modern-day Anglesey in modern Wales in 60 C.E. it was Roman soldiers who hated and feared their hold over Iron Age Britons, daily lives as seers, law givers and priests and they associated them with inhumane, human sacrifices.





... and they shouldn't stop there


And again, this is how the religion angle ties in with CRT, where the R could easily stand for religion:

If you declare yourself an atheist, they may not use that specific label - after all, atheist is already a dirty word - but the repercussions are very real. There are many supports around the world who deal with this. In the U.S., individuals get rejected by family, friends, neighbors, receive death threats, are run out of town... try running for office in the U.S. being an atheist.
You do realize of course there have been leading politicians, PMs of Australia, current PM of New Zealand is an agnostic, major party leaders in EU countries that have also been agnostic or atheist. Try to see this argument as being a bit broader then just running for political office in USA.
Or how about being Muslim? How would the U.S. react if the tables were turned in Israel?
How about being a Coptic Christian in Egypt? There not exactly treated with respect, or haven't suffered discrimination or individual Jews living in communities in other predominantly Muslim-populated ME countries who get attacked, harassed, beaten up, assaulted or even killing whenever violence breaks out between Israel and Hamas?
And given your affinity for history, I am sure you are aware of what went on during the different inquisitions, how indigenous people were forced and tricked into religion, etc.

And speaking of MAGA, who are the biggest supporters of it?
Most individual Scientologists run the gamut of political affiliation. Some are conservative, a few are moderate, but most tend to liberal or left-leaning when it comes to social issues.

How arrogant of them, to pretend to 1. pretend to know what God thinks and 2. to change the message of the Holy Book.

The text in Genesis 22 is very clear, God tested Abraham to make sure Abraham feared God. (G:22-1 After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.”; G:22-12 He said, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God And how cruel that episode is: God granting a child (male, of course) to Abraham at a very late stage in his life, then commanding Abraham to kill his son, then Abraham going along with the elaborate process to kill his son (would you sacrifice your child to save yourself?); then just as Abraham was about to do the deed, he's given a goat to sacrifice - which begs the question, why sacrifice a goat at that point?

What about the goat?

How you treat other human beings would be a way to maintain God's favor. Too bad homosexuals, pagans, the Midianites, countess slaves, et al didn't get the benefit of secular morality.

Irrelevant tangent.

They would not, I guarantee you that.

You really assume a lot by saying that. I take it you have taken part in these same academic conferences. Many of the historians Ive talked to relating to similar concepts have given me the receptions they wouldve received or would've gotten was very different and they witnessed it for themselves.

Who is saying anything about wasting time? Oh, it was you. I never said studying religions is a waste of time. On the contrary, I encourage people to truly study their religion as well as other religions. The religious classes I took at Loyola were some of the most interesting classes I took in college.

Based on your rhetoric and previous statements in earlier replies to me in this thread, I got the impression you were inferring studying religious artefacts, documents werent that important because you dismiss some of what we discussed as 3rd rate forgeries, shirtty reproductions that werent authentic and had questionable validity? Remember your comments about the Dead Sea Scrolls above or the Nag Hammadi rabbinical Scrolls?

But the caveat is that one needs to study one's own religion as one would study other religions, not just engage in apologetics for their own religion trying to shoehorn ancient writings into modern times while poo-pooing the other religions' fantastic claims.

 

[SystemShock]

@Saintman2884

That last post is a mess, but anyway:

No matter how much you think or how many times you say it, no, they will not laugh at me, because they would understand what I am saying. And I am not moving goalposts; what's happening really is, you think Scientology is not a valid religion because you think your religion is the valid one. But, when you look at religions from the outside without bias, it is very easy to discern all religions follow the same pattern. There is a definition of religion, and Scientology fits the definition as much as Christianity does.

You could've spared me the history lesson where you acknowledge what I said. Don't really care about the origin of the word pagan either, just what it means to Christians.

Yes, I do realize that around the world people aren't such religious zealots that they elect atheists to government positions. Why do you even bring this up? Did I say around the world or the U.S.?

Sure, Scientologists run the gamut of political affiliations, but I didn't see any Xenu signs during Jan 6th. Plenty of Jesus signs, though. If it weren't for the so called evangelicals throwing their full support behind who they believe is the stubborn king of the West and believing in Satan worshiping cabals, MAGA never happens.

When it comes to the Dead Sea Scrolls, my "rhetoric" is simply that I don't know that they aren't fake. What I know is that they have a dubious origin, and that, as far as I know, the fragments that have been studied by 3rd parties that have no skin in the game have proven to be forgeries. Yet, if any fragments are proven to be authentic, sure, they would be important historic artifacts, but they still wouldn't make the existence of Yahweh true.

 

[RebSaint]

Reb, we both know better then that and we're aware that the European African slave trade didnt just start suddenly as a practice but was learned about, observed from a distance from Spanish and European Crusaders who saw Arab merchants, traders capturing, kidnapping and enslaving indigenous African tribesmen like Berbers all across North Africa and parts of sub-Saharan Africa. The Trans-Saharan and Indian Ocean slave trade werent on the same scales, in size, and scope and length of duration as the New World slave trade in the Americas, Caribbean until really the 1830's when the UK, France and other major remaining European imperial powers outlawed slavery throughout their empires (France did in 1848).

http://en.m.wikipedia. org/wiki/Trans-Saharan_slave_trade

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean_slave_trade

This information does not contradict what I stated in my post. And while all this discussion of theology and Scientology is interesting, (besides the points made about Christianity being used to defend African slavery, colonization, and Jim Crow), I fail to see how it is relevant to CRT. There are connections to be made, for sure, but you're not making them. In fact, you often type lots of walls of texts often without making any point whatsoever.

 

[Optimus Prime]

"Traditional history" no surprise from Texas, a state that call slaves "the workers"
================================

SAN ANTONIO —Not long after George Floyd was murdered on a Minneapolis street last Memorial Day, Meghan Dougherty felt an awakening in her suburban Texas school district.

Teachers received training in the role that race had played in creating the United States’ vast inequalities. Students, parents and faculty members spent their summers studying and debating how to combat generations of systemic racism. Some crafted a plan to enroll more Black and Latino students in Advanced Placement classes, where they had long been underrepresented.

“That’s a small thing, but it’s also a big thing,” said Dougherty, an instructional coach in Round Rock, a fast-growing and increasingly diverse district just outside Austin. “The conversation has changed.”

Yet, now, Republican legislators have passed a bill that could change it back.

Under the culture war rallying cry of combating “critical race theory” — an academic framework centered on the idea that racism is systemic, not just a collection of individual prejudices — lawmakers have endorsed an extraordinary intervention in classrooms across Texas.

Their plans would impose restrictions on how teachers discuss current events, bar students from receiving course credit for civic engagement and, in the words of advocates, restore the role of “traditional history” to its rightful place of primacy by emphasizing the nation’s noble ideals, rather than its centuries-long record of failing to live up to them.

“We should be teaching American history,” Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) recently told an interviewer with Sinclair broadcasting. “We should not be teaching that people are somehow unequal.”

To Texas educators who have cheered attempts to offer students a more thorough and honest account of the nation’s often ugly history of racial subjugation, it all feels like an attempt to put the post-Floyd awakening back to sleep.

“Traditional history. I wonder what that means,” said Dougherty, who submitted testimony opposing the bill. “It feels like history where we don’t have to tell the whole story.”.............

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[zztop]

Not surprising



An Ohio veteran mentioning the role freed Black people played in the founding of Memorial Day found his speech somewhat silenced during a holiday ceremony this week.

Retired Army Lt. Col. Barnard Kemter‘s microphone was cut off while giving the keynote address Monday at Markillie Cemetery in Hudson, Ohio as he began to share a story about how former enslaved Black people were the first to honor deceased Union soldiers after the end of the Civil War, the origins of Memorial Day.

For two minutes, Kemter’s 11-minute speech was quieted in what he thought was a technical glitch.

However, Cindy Suchan, who was the chairperson of the Memorial Day event sponsored by the Hudson American Legion Auxiliary, confirmed to The Akron Beacon Journal that it was either she or the adjutant of the American Legion Lee-Bishop Post 464, Jim Garrison, who intentionally turned the microphone off at that point. According to the report, when pressed, Suchan would not confirm exactly who cut Kemter’s speech.

She told the news outlet Kemter was interrupted because that portion of his speech “was not relevant” to the program. She added that the “theme of the day was honoring Hudson veterans.”

 

[Farb]

https://www.golocalprov.com/news/ri...suing-woman-for-hundreds-of-apras-questioning

A school committee in Rhode Island is threatening to sue a woman for filing what they said were 160 separate public records requests. However, the parent argues under state law the filings constitute just one, as they were filed within a 30 day period.


Now, the South Kingstown mother of a kindergartner, Nicole Solas, is firing back. The Town of South Kingstown initially demanded a nearly $10,000 bill for records retrieval related to her request for information about the school district’s implementation of “critical race and gender curriculum.”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/virginia-loudoun-critical-race-theory-parents-lawsuit

The controversy over "equity" is accelerating in Loudoun County where parents are suing administrators over initiatives that allegedly chill free speech and discriminate based on race. Filed in federal court Wednesday, the lawsuit argues that Loudoun County Public Schools (LCPS) and its "equity student ambassador" program restrict eligibility to non-White individuals and requires they hold certain views about social justice. It also targets a bias response system designed to flag perceived microaggressions or other incidents of "bias" between students. Plaintiffs include multiple anonymous persons in addition to two county activists – Scott Mineo of Parents Against Critical Theory and Patti Hildalgo Menders of the Loudoun Republican Women's Club.

IMO, it is good for parents to push back on this garbage. And people wonder why parents are pulling their kids out of the public 'school' system. It is almost as if they don't want parents to know what they are 'teaching' their children. In all fairness though, I have a severe disdain for school boards from my past experiences dealing with that bureaucracy
Should be interesting to see this play out in the courts.

 

[MT15]

Farb: what does this have to do with critical race theory? It doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the subject of this thread.

Note, also applies to zztop’s post as well. Maybe these should go in the racism thread?

 

[DaveXA]

Farb: what does this have to do with critical race theory? It doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the subject of this thread.

Note, also applies to zztop’s post as well. Maybe these should go in the racism thread?

Isn't Farb's post referencing CRT being supposedly taught in schools?