Civil War 2? (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Very sobering article
    ================
    If you know people still in denial about the crisis of American democracy, kindly remove their heads from the sand long enough to receive this message: A startling new finding by one of the nation’s top authorities on foreign civil wars says we are on the cusp of our own.

    Barbara F. Walter, a political science professorat the University of California at San Diego, serves on a CIA advisory panel called the Political Instability Task Force that monitors countries around the world and predicts which of them are most at risk of deteriorating into violence.

    By law, the task force can’t assess what’s happening within the United States, but Walter, a longtime friend who has spent her career studying conflicts in Syria, Lebanon, Northern Ireland, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, Rwanda, Angola, Nicaragua and elsewhere, applied the predictive techniques herself to this country.

    Her bottom line: “We are closer to civil war than any of us would like to believe.” She lays out the argument in detail in her must-read book, “How Civil Wars Start,” out in January. “No one wants to believe that their beloved democracy is in decline, or headed toward war,” she writes.

    But, “if you were an analyst in a foreign country looking at events in America — the same way you’d look at events in Ukraine or the Ivory Coast or Venezuela — you would go down a checklist, assessing each of the conditions that make civil war likely.

    And what you would find is that the United States, a democracy founded more than two centuries ago, has entered very dangerous territory.”

    Indeed, the United States has already gone through what the CIA identifies as the first two phases of insurgency — the “pre-insurgency” and “incipient conflict” phases — and only time will tell whether the final phase, “open insurgency,” began with the sacking of the Capitol by Donald Trump supporters on Jan. 6.

    Things deteriorated so dramatically under Trump, in fact, that the United States no longer technically qualifies as a democracy. Citing the Center for Systemic Peace’s “Polity” data set — the one the CIA task force has found to be most helpful in predicting instability and violence — Walter writes that the United States is now an “anocracy,” somewhere between a democracy and an autocratic state.

    U.S. democracy had received the Polity index’s top score of 10, or close to it, for much of its history. But in the five years of the Trump era, it tumbled precipitously into the anocracy zone; by the end of his presidency, the U.S. score had fallen to a 5, making the country a partial democracy for the first time since 1800.

    “We are no longer the world’s oldest continuous democracy,” Walter writes. “That honor is now held by Switzerland, followed by New Zealand, and then Canada. We are no longer a peer to nations like Canada, Costa Rica, and Japan, which are all rated a +10 on the Polity index.”…….

    Others have reached similar findings. The Stockholm-based International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance put the United States on a list of “backsliding democracies” in a report last month.

    “The United States, the bastion of global democracy, fell victim to authoritarian tendencies itself," the report said.

    And a new survey by the academic consortium Bright Line Watch found that 17 percent of those who identify strongly as Republicans support the use of violence to restore Trump to power, and 39 percent favor doing everything possible to prevent Democrats from governing effectively……



     
    He doesn't? Are you sure about that? He is an icon on the left.
    I'm a big fan of Bernie, because I view him as an honest man with principles. Also, I'm a Democrat, yet I don't agree with many of Bernie's solutions. I don't think I'm a minority among Democrats. I think there are a majority of Democrats like me that respect Bernie. His ideal solutions may sometimes go too far, but he's also a pragmatist. I would vote for Bernie, despite believing he is left of my positions.

    Trump isn't even a conservative. His current stances are far right wacko stuff, but he doesn't even believe many of them. He just says what he thinks will stir-up his constituents. There is no comparison between these men.
     
    I'm a big fan of Bernie, because I view him as an honest man with principles. Also, I'm a Democrat, yet I don't agree with many of Bernie's solutions. I don't think I'm a minority among Democrats. I think there are a majority of Democrats like me that respect Bernie. His ideal solutions may sometimes go too far, but he's also a pragmatist. I would vote for Bernie, despite believing he is left of my positions.

    Trump isn't even a conservative. His current stances are far right wacko stuff, but he doesn't even believe many of them. He just says what he thinks will stir-up his constituents. There is no comparison between these men.
    I don't care for Bernie, obviously, but I can see and understand his appeal to voters. I don't like either one, but the way the DNC did Bernie was wrong.

    Out of curiosity, what is the far right wacko stuff Trump peddles in your opinion?
     
    I don't care for Bernie, obviously, but I can see and understand his appeal to voters. I don't like either one, but the way the DNC did Bernie was wrong.

    Out of curiosity, what is the far right wacko stuff Trump peddles in your opinion?
    Here are a few:
    Global Warming is fake and it was created by China. Covid was created to destroy him. A great conspiracy stole the election from him. Strongmen should be admired. There are good people among white nationalists. Most Mexicans are rapists and murderers. A wall is the best solution to stop illegal immigration. Immigration from non-white nations is bad.
     
    Is it ok to pray for a past President to have a heart attack before the next election? Doesn’t have to kill him but I really don’t want a sequel. As far as the Republicans go I have zero idea of who I would support.
     
    Here are a few:
    Global Warming is fake and it was created by China. Covid was created to destroy him. A great conspiracy stole the election from him. Strongmen should be admired. There are good people among white nationalists. Most Mexicans are rapists and murderers. A wall is the best solution to stop illegal immigration. Immigration from non-white nations is bad.
    Never heard Global warming was created by China
    There is something fishy about Covid. Give it a few years.
    Yes
    They have throughtout history. What changed and why?
    All black nationalists are bad people. All islamic nationalists are bad people. I think everyone can agree with that. However, the quote your referring too has been proven to be taken out of context but you know that.
    He never said anything close to that.
    Got a better idea? Walls are good to stop an 'insurrection' and protect our politicians but not to stop illegal immigration and protect the citizens? Seems like an odd stance. Oh, never mind, walls are 'racist'?
    He never said that, but the politicians obviously think immigration from non-white nations is preferred
     
    Never heard Global warming was created by China
    There is something fishy about Covid. Give it a few years.
    Yes
    They have throughtout history. What changed and why?
    All black nationalists are bad people. All islamic nationalists are bad people. I think everyone can agree with that. However, the quote your referring too has been proven to be taken out of context but you know that.
    He never said anything close to that.
    Got a better idea? Walls are good to stop an 'insurrection' and protect our politicians but not to stop illegal immigration and protect the citizens? Seems like an odd stance. Oh, never mind, walls are 'racist'?
    He never said that, but the politicians obviously think immigration from non-white nations is preferred
    If you believe any of the stuff that I posted, then you're a far right wacko. I didn't say anything about black nationalists. They're also bad. The statement Trump made about violence on "many sides" was typical Trump racist innuendo (he loved to re-tweet racist memes), because the only violence was by the white nationalists. The only other side was the peaceful counter protesters to the group of people gathered to Unite the Right that were chanting Jews will not replace us. Anyone associating themselves with that Unite the Right group is bad. Once those racist chants started, anyone there should've disassociated themselves, and if they didn't, then they are not good people, so there were no good people on that side. Walls can't be used in many places without causing widelife damage, nor taking land, and Walls are not the best way, because they are easily defeated, unless you use the better techniques, such as technology. Walls have their place, including in some areas of the border, but the great wall of America is not the answer to illegal immigration. What's more, Trump's properties are probably staffed by illegals. Throwing out nonsense statements about racist walls doesn't help prove that you aren't a wacko.

     
    If you believe any of the stuff that I posted, then you're a far right wacko. I didn't say anything about black nationalists. They're also bad. The statement Trump made about violence on "many sides" was typical Trump racist innuendo (he loved to re-tweet racist memes), because the only violence was by the white nationalists. The only other side was the peaceful counter protesters to the group of people gathered to Unite the Right that were chanting Jews will not replace us. Anyone associating themselves with that Unite the Right group is bad. Once those racist chants started, anyone there should've disassociated themselves, and if they didn't, then they are not good people, so there were no good people on that side. Walls can't be used in many places without causing widelife damage, nor taking land, and Walls are not the best way, because they are easily defeated, unless you use the better techniques, such as technology. Walls have their place, including in some areas of the border, but the great wall of America is not the answer to illegal immigration. What's more, Trump's properties are probably staffed by illegals. Throwing out nonsense statements about racist walls doesn't help prove that you aren't a wacko.

    Did I ever claim I wasn't a right wing wacko? I didn't, because by your definition, I am and I am cool with that.

    So you are saying there were possibly people in Charlottesville that were not associated with the tiki torch group that showed up to protest the removal of a statue?

    I know you didn't say anything about black nationalist. No one does, even after a Christmas parade massacre.

    Some how, I don't believe you really care about the wildlife at the border, but cheers for a new talking point.

    I have no doubt Trump employees illegals. I would bet just about all of our politicians do so not sure of your point. Heck, 2 senators had serious relations with Chinese spys so they are not the brightest folks we have to have off. Those states that elected them 'definitely are not sending their best and brightest' to Washington.
     
    Did I ever claim I wasn't a right wing wacko? I didn't, because by your definition, I am and I am cool with that.

    So you are saying there were possibly people in Charlottesville that were not associated with the tiki torch group that showed up to protest the removal of a statue?

    I know you didn't say anything about black nationalist. No one does, even after a Christmas parade massacre.

    Some how, I don't believe you really care about the wildlife at the border, but cheers for a new talking point.

    I have no doubt Trump employees illegals. I would bet just about all of our politicians do so not sure of your point. Heck, 2 senators had serious relations with Chinese spys so they are not the brightest folks we have to have off. Those states that elected them 'definitely are not sending their best and brightest' to Washington.
    If you believe conspiracy theories, then you're a wacko. If you don't differentiate between evil and peaceful protesters, then you're a wacko. Bringing up other bad and evil actions, doesn't justify defending evil actions. There may have been some bad people among the peaceful protesters, and some decent people protesting the statues being taken down, but it's like defending Nazies by saying that they all didn't want to kill Jews. There were probably some Nazies that didn't want to kill Jews, but were afraid or had other reasons, but Nazies were committing violence, and so were the protesters on the side of the Unite the Right. Defending the protesters on the side of the Unite the Right had no place in the discussion. That's only meant to appease the wackos.
     
    If you believe conspiracy theories, then you're a wacko. If you don't differentiate between evil and peaceful protesters, then you're a wacko. Bringing up other bad and evil actions, doesn't justify defending evil actions. There may have been some bad people among the peaceful protesters, and some decent people protesting the statues being taken down, but it's like defending Nazies by saying that they all didn't want to kill Jews. There were probably some Nazies that didn't want to kill Jews, but were afraid or had other reasons, but Nazies were committing violence, and so were the protesters on the side of the Unite the Right. Defending the protesters on the side of the Unite the Right had no place in the discussion. That's only meant to appease the wackos.
    What if those conspiracy theories prove not be conspiracy theories and proven right? Then what is that wacko considered? It is all good as I consider myself a wacko anyway, so you cant hurt my feelings.
     
    What if those conspiracy theories prove not be conspiracy theories and proven right? Then what is that wacko considered? It is all good as I consider myself a wacko anyway, so you cant hurt my feelings.
    It is wacko to believe in conspiracies in general. It is not wacko to hypothesize that something nefarious exists, but without evidence, it is a conspiracy theory. 99.99% of conspiracy theories are false. On occasion a conspiracy exists, but conspiracy theorists generally know nothing about actual conspiracies. They just throw out crazy ideas about anything they can't explain or refuse to accept could happen. Choosing to believe those conspiracies is wacko.
     
    What if those conspiracy theories prove not be conspiracy theories and proven right? Then what is that wacko considered? It is all good as I consider myself a wacko anyway, so you cant hurt my feelings.

    Well, see, there is a danger and a cost to believing wackjob conspiracies over provable reality.

    Take QAnon, for instance. There are young girls and boys who're being victimized by human trafficking. Absolutely there are, and from time to time the FBI catches the perpetrators. NONE of them, however, are working from the basement of a pizza parlor that doesn't have a basement. NONE of them are stealing babies for their adrenal secretions. Every empathetic, engaged citizen who's trying to find adrenaline-crazed reptilians instead of offering help to abused youths or looking out for the signs of actual kidnapping is making things worse, not better.
     
    What if those conspiracy theories prove not be conspiracy theories and proven right? Then what is that wacko considered? It is all good as I consider myself a wacko anyway, so you cant hurt my feelings.
    The 'I will surely be vindicated... eventually' trope is not the best way to go through life.
     
    The 'I will surely be vindicated... eventually' trope is not the best way to go through life.
    If that is the only negative trope I go through life with I will consider that a win because my life is a disaster thus far. But those 'I told you so' moments give me some meaning in life, so who is to judge
     
    Well, see, there is a danger and a cost to believing wackjob conspiracies over provable reality.

    Take QAnon, for instance. There are young girls and boys who're being victimized by human trafficking. Absolutely there are, and from time to time the FBI catches the perpetrators. NONE of them, however, are working from the basement of a pizza parlor that doesn't have a basement. NONE of them are stealing babies for their adrenal secretions. Every empathetic, engaged citizen who's trying to find adrenaline-crazed reptilians instead of offering help to abused youths or looking out for the signs of actual kidnapping is making things worse, not better.
    Sure. I will agree to that. But are there not conspiracy theories the left flocks too? Voter suppression, systemic racism, Conservatives rounding up all the gays, men can give birth? Those all have horrible consequences on our society, but yet here we are.
     

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