Civil War 2? (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Very sobering article
    ================
    If you know people still in denial about the crisis of American democracy, kindly remove their heads from the sand long enough to receive this message: A startling new finding by one of the nation’s top authorities on foreign civil wars says we are on the cusp of our own.

    Barbara F. Walter, a political science professorat the University of California at San Diego, serves on a CIA advisory panel called the Political Instability Task Force that monitors countries around the world and predicts which of them are most at risk of deteriorating into violence.

    By law, the task force can’t assess what’s happening within the United States, but Walter, a longtime friend who has spent her career studying conflicts in Syria, Lebanon, Northern Ireland, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, Rwanda, Angola, Nicaragua and elsewhere, applied the predictive techniques herself to this country.

    Her bottom line: “We are closer to civil war than any of us would like to believe.” She lays out the argument in detail in her must-read book, “How Civil Wars Start,” out in January. “No one wants to believe that their beloved democracy is in decline, or headed toward war,” she writes.

    But, “if you were an analyst in a foreign country looking at events in America — the same way you’d look at events in Ukraine or the Ivory Coast or Venezuela — you would go down a checklist, assessing each of the conditions that make civil war likely.

    And what you would find is that the United States, a democracy founded more than two centuries ago, has entered very dangerous territory.”

    Indeed, the United States has already gone through what the CIA identifies as the first two phases of insurgency — the “pre-insurgency” and “incipient conflict” phases — and only time will tell whether the final phase, “open insurgency,” began with the sacking of the Capitol by Donald Trump supporters on Jan. 6.

    Things deteriorated so dramatically under Trump, in fact, that the United States no longer technically qualifies as a democracy. Citing the Center for Systemic Peace’s “Polity” data set — the one the CIA task force has found to be most helpful in predicting instability and violence — Walter writes that the United States is now an “anocracy,” somewhere between a democracy and an autocratic state.

    U.S. democracy had received the Polity index’s top score of 10, or close to it, for much of its history. But in the five years of the Trump era, it tumbled precipitously into the anocracy zone; by the end of his presidency, the U.S. score had fallen to a 5, making the country a partial democracy for the first time since 1800.

    “We are no longer the world’s oldest continuous democracy,” Walter writes. “That honor is now held by Switzerland, followed by New Zealand, and then Canada. We are no longer a peer to nations like Canada, Costa Rica, and Japan, which are all rated a +10 on the Polity index.”…….

    Others have reached similar findings. The Stockholm-based International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance put the United States on a list of “backsliding democracies” in a report last month.

    “The United States, the bastion of global democracy, fell victim to authoritarian tendencies itself," the report said.

    And a new survey by the academic consortium Bright Line Watch found that 17 percent of those who identify strongly as Republicans support the use of violence to restore Trump to power, and 39 percent favor doing everything possible to prevent Democrats from governing effectively……



     
    Well, we do enjoy arguing about it on a message board, so we are all pretty stupid to listen to the politicians. I know I am.
    Yea, we argue about sports on message boards too. It's pretty important to some people. Nothing wrong with that.

    But let's not get silly, and split up the country and act like we'd be winning something if it happened. That's kids stuff.
     
    Yea, we argue about sports on message boards too. It's pretty important to some people. Nothing wrong with that.

    But let's not get silly, and split up the country and act like we'd be winning something if it happened. That's kids stuff.
    I get it and sometimes I agree with you and then sometimes I think that we are too far gone. To much of divide over what to me is just the basic values and morality.
     
    I get it and sometimes I agree with you and then sometimes I think that we are too far gone. To much of divide over what to me is just the basic values and morality.

    Well we will be dead one day, and fights over our morality should lead to our kids living in a Balkanized new version of the Middle East.
     
    You think it‘s 50-50? It’s not even close. The truly indoctrinated are maybe 30-35% of the Republican Party faithful. Closer to 15% of the actual population. It won’t happen. 80% of the people in this country are never going to go along with this crazy idea.

    Plus you guys are both ignoring the fact that most people have family members from both parties. People are not going to willingly divide their families like that.

    Most Rs are not hard-core MAGA, and most Ds are not Antifa. But I will tell you the % of Ds that are Antifa is tiny, tiny while the Rs are fighting to save their party from the wackos.

    Anyway it’s not a very good idea.
    I wouldn't consider it dividing families in the sense that people who live in France might have family in the Netherlands or Germany or wherever. The GOP has been consumed by MAGA. There is no more saving it.
     
    "Trump Supporters Explain Why They Believe the Big Lie

    For many of Trump’s voters, the belief that the election was stolen is not a fully formed thought. It’s more of an attitude, or a tribal pose.​

    Sarah Longwell April 18, 2022
    For many of Trump’s voters, the belief that the election was stolen is not a fully formed thought. It’s more of an attitude, or a tribal pose.

    Some 35 percent of Americans—including 68 percent of Republicans—believe the Big Lie, pushed relentlessly by former President Donald Trump and amplified by conservative media, that the 2020 presidential election was stolen. They think that Trump was the true victor and that he should still be in the White House today."

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/04/trump-voters-big-lie-stolen-election/629572/
     

    For whatever it's worth, I will also say that I've been seeing references to Thanos in comment sections for a while now

    Thanos who thought the only way to a better world was to eliminate half the population

    The comments make it clear they mean eliminating the liberal side of the population
     
    Exactly. It's now mainstream. 'Normal/old school' Republicans probably comprise 20-25% of the party now. And as time goes on those numbers will dwindle.
    I would guess about the same as old school democrats/liberals. Mainstream is now full left.
     
    I would guess about the same as old school democrats/liberals. Mainstream is now full left.
    Nah, that's an exaggeration if you hold up someone like Bernie Sanders and AOC as 'full left.' At most that type of philosophy is held by maybe 30% or so of the Dems in Congress. If this were true than Bernie would occupy the same cult status/power as Trump. He doesn't.
     
    Nah, that's an exaggeration if you hold up someone like Bernie Sanders and AOC as 'full left.' At most that type of philosophy is held by maybe 30% or so of the Dems in Congress. If this were true than Bernie would occupy the same cult status/power as Trump. He doesn't.
    He doesn't? Are you sure about that? He is an icon on the left.
     
    I will agree the DNC is not supporting him and has actively hurt his campaigns, but Bernie's socialist message is resounding with the younger voters especially.
     
    First Bernie isn’t a socialist, words have meanings. When he advocates seizing private companies for the state, then you can call him a socialist.

    Second, Bernie isn’t resonating with that many young people that I see. 🤷‍♀️
     
    He doesn't? Are you sure about that? He is an icon on the left.
    Be honest: there is no objective comparison to the clout Trump has in the GOP to Bernie. If you think there is then I'd suggest you're getting your info from flawed sources.
     

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