Civil War 2? (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Very sobering article
    ================
    If you know people still in denial about the crisis of American democracy, kindly remove their heads from the sand long enough to receive this message: A startling new finding by one of the nation’s top authorities on foreign civil wars says we are on the cusp of our own.

    Barbara F. Walter, a political science professorat the University of California at San Diego, serves on a CIA advisory panel called the Political Instability Task Force that monitors countries around the world and predicts which of them are most at risk of deteriorating into violence.

    By law, the task force can’t assess what’s happening within the United States, but Walter, a longtime friend who has spent her career studying conflicts in Syria, Lebanon, Northern Ireland, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, Rwanda, Angola, Nicaragua and elsewhere, applied the predictive techniques herself to this country.

    Her bottom line: “We are closer to civil war than any of us would like to believe.” She lays out the argument in detail in her must-read book, “How Civil Wars Start,” out in January. “No one wants to believe that their beloved democracy is in decline, or headed toward war,” she writes.

    But, “if you were an analyst in a foreign country looking at events in America — the same way you’d look at events in Ukraine or the Ivory Coast or Venezuela — you would go down a checklist, assessing each of the conditions that make civil war likely.

    And what you would find is that the United States, a democracy founded more than two centuries ago, has entered very dangerous territory.”

    Indeed, the United States has already gone through what the CIA identifies as the first two phases of insurgency — the “pre-insurgency” and “incipient conflict” phases — and only time will tell whether the final phase, “open insurgency,” began with the sacking of the Capitol by Donald Trump supporters on Jan. 6.

    Things deteriorated so dramatically under Trump, in fact, that the United States no longer technically qualifies as a democracy. Citing the Center for Systemic Peace’s “Polity” data set — the one the CIA task force has found to be most helpful in predicting instability and violence — Walter writes that the United States is now an “anocracy,” somewhere between a democracy and an autocratic state.

    U.S. democracy had received the Polity index’s top score of 10, or close to it, for much of its history. But in the five years of the Trump era, it tumbled precipitously into the anocracy zone; by the end of his presidency, the U.S. score had fallen to a 5, making the country a partial democracy for the first time since 1800.

    “We are no longer the world’s oldest continuous democracy,” Walter writes. “That honor is now held by Switzerland, followed by New Zealand, and then Canada. We are no longer a peer to nations like Canada, Costa Rica, and Japan, which are all rated a +10 on the Polity index.”…….

    Others have reached similar findings. The Stockholm-based International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance put the United States on a list of “backsliding democracies” in a report last month.

    “The United States, the bastion of global democracy, fell victim to authoritarian tendencies itself," the report said.

    And a new survey by the academic consortium Bright Line Watch found that 17 percent of those who identify strongly as Republicans support the use of violence to restore Trump to power, and 39 percent favor doing everything possible to prevent Democrats from governing effectively……



     
    I have no other way of knowing what he said or didn't say. I can only go by what was said on video at his rally. The part about a 'peaceful march to have their voices heard'. Now if you have proof of something nefarious, then I am all ears.
    I don't need a reason to vote for DeSantis, but I can always use more.
    He said things before and after the rally.

    People close to him have said things he said to them.

    You shouldn't need anyone to talk you out of voting for Trump at this point. Any other Republican would be better.
     
    I have no other way of knowing what he said or didn't say. I can only go by what was said on video at his rally. The part about a 'peaceful march to have their voices heard'. Now if you have proof of something nefarious, then I am all ears.
    I don't need a reason to vote for DeSantis, but I can always use more.

    Perfect example of the blind rejection of reality and cognitive dissonance required to a Republican today.

    Republicans will be the end of the republic that they've so grown to hate and everybody will suffer for it. I guess that's kind of in keeping with their hole mantra now, "destroy anything/everything, as long as it makes the libs mad, regardless of who it hurts."
     
    Perfect example of the blind rejection of reality and cognitive dissonance required to a Republican today.

    Republicans will be the end of the republic that they've so grown to hate and everybody will suffer for it. I guess that's kind of in keeping with their hole mantra now, "destroy anything/everything, as long as it makes the libs mad, regardless of who it hurts."
    They're largely at the point where "the ends justify the means."

    For them what's worse, Trump's attempt at overthrowing the incoming, legally elected administration.. or this Biden administration itself?

    It's obvious to me that many if not most on the right would say that if Trump could have succeeded, no matter how he went about it, it would have been the lesser of the two evils.

    In turn, Democrats are now subject to the same problem because this is where we are now and you can't have one side that doesn't give a shirt without the other side ultimately deciding that they're going to have to not give a shirt too or else they'll just be overrun by the opposite, no shirts-giving side.

    Yes, we are forked.
     
    I know enough to know that you will ignore what you have to to continue to support and defend the people you support. Your last sentence pretty much says all anyone needs to know.
    I love the moral high horse tactic used. I also know enough about you that you will continue support and depend your team as well, so to act like I am an outlier is just petty but predictable. When no other arguments, go with personal snipes.

    Yes, I think everyone knows I am a 'radical' conservative. I am, just so everyone knows and I don't sneak up on anyone.
     
    There's a difference in calling someone's opinion stupid and calling the poster stupid. In this case, you are calling someone a dolt, which is attacking the person, rather than attacking the statement.
    Sorry, feel free to report that post then. Not sure what to tell you. I bet your ignore feature works well too. Give that a try.
     
    Yes, we are forked.
    I will agree with this and your entire statement. I am, however, super happy the right is now learning and playing the lefts game. It might be the only way we all don't turn into gay commies!
    (that last sentence was a joke. I know you won't get offended, but incase others might)
     
    Perfect example of the blind rejection of reality and cognitive dissonance required to a Republican today.

    Republicans will be the end of the republic that they've so grown to hate and everybody will suffer for it. I guess that's kind of in keeping with their hole mantra now, "destroy anything/everything, as long as it makes the libs mad, regardless of who it hurts."
    Ok, educate me. Show me what he said and when. I don't like Trump, so it won't be hard to convince me and to be honest, I would not mind one bit if he got charges booked and could not run for POTUS. I would be ecstatic actually.

    DeSantis 2024
     
    I will agree with this and your entire statement. I am, however, super happy the right is now learning and playing the lefts game. It might be the only way we all don't turn into gay commies!
    (that last sentence was a joke. I know you won't get offended, but incase others might)
    In regards to this particular topic I would say that the left will be learning from Trump.
     
    In regards to this particular topic I would say that the left will be learning from Trump.
    I disagree. The left got to power by shaming their opponents. That is why so many people don't actually want to talk about any other this public. You mention you vote one way and suddenly, you are a racist, Nazi, white supremist that apparently hates women.
     
    I disagree. The left got to power by shaming their opponents. That is why so many people don't actually want to talk about any other this public. You mention you vote one way and suddenly, you are a racist, Nazi, white supremist that apparently hates women.
    I'm not talking about that.

    I'm talking about the refusal to lose when you've lost. No one in modern times pushed that the way Trump did here recently and the left will be learning from him on that point, else they're subject to being rolled over.

    It's a meet force with force thing in which they'll be compelled to respond to in kind.
     
    I disagree. The left got to power by shaming their opponents. That is why so many people don't actually want to talk about any other this public. You mention you vote one way and suddenly, you are a racist, Nazi, white supremist that apparently hates women.
    To be perfectly honest, nobody cares how you vote and people have come to their conclusions about you because of the things you say, not who you vote for.
     
    I love the moral high horse tactic used. I also know enough about you that you will continue support and depend your team as well, so to act like I am an outlier is just petty but predictable. When no other arguments, go with personal snipes.

    Yes, I think everyone knows I am a 'radical' conservative. I am, just so everyone knows and I don't sneak up on anyone.
    That's where you are wrong, as usual. I have no problem calling out the people I vote for when/if they purposely lie, cheat, steal or commit treason. I'm ashamed to say I voted for Jindal two times but when he actually won and immediately did the opposite of what he said he would do when elected, not only did I criticize him for doing it, I actively worked on the recall petition.

    Your "you do it too" accusation is the only thing that is nothing more than being petty and is nothing more than an admission of what I've said about you. You will ignore whatever you have to in order to continue to support and defend the indefensible.

    You were lied to and your gullibility was used against you by trump and his supporters. You are part of the crowd that doesn't care if any crimes are committed as long as they are committed by the people you support.

    You are not a radical conservative. You are simply radical. Conservatives actually care about the constitution and the rule of law. True conservatives look at the constitution and they see and know that the trump administration took a shirt on it at every turn. True conservatives forced Nixon to resign for his crimes. You, on the other hand, bend over backwards to ignore facts because they indict the person you worship.

    The left got to power by shaming their opponents.
    This is rich. It was shame that kept you and most radicals in the shadows. It was shame that kept lawmakers from being complete and unabashed hypocrites. Once trump showed those people that having shame was a weakness, well, they lost their shame and we almost lost our country because of it.

    Shame kept liars, pedophiles and serial abusers from seeking public office. So when you say the left got to power by shaming their opponents as if it was some kind of underhanded tactic, it really shows how your lack of shame has become engrained in you. When you don't do shameful things, shame can't be used against you.

    As to the ignore feature, yeah well maybe you should use it. I won't because I will continue to call out your BS every time you post it, whether its visible to you or not. That feeling you have for wanting to ignore me or others who call out your BS, that's the last remaining modicum of shame that you have left. Stop ignoring it.
     
    I'm not talking about that.

    I'm talking about the refusal to lose when you've lost. No one in modern times pushed that the way Trump did here recently and the left will be learning from him on that point, else they're subject to being rolled over.

    It's a meet force with force thing in which they'll be compelled to respond to in kind.
    Well, to be fair, there was never an election like that before either. I know the 'great lie' and all that you all have labeled it, but the fact is that many many many people in this country does not think that election was fair. Whether you believe that or not, many people do. People with crazy ideas vote too and deserve their voice just as much as the crazies that say a man can have a baby. The only difference is one statement will land you in prison and the other will get you invited to the white house.
     
    To be perfectly honest, nobody cares how you vote and people have come to their conclusions about you because of the things you say, not who you vote for.
    Totally missed my point on purpose or couldn't resist the softball. Either way, well played MT, well played indeed!!
     
    That's where you are wrong, as usual. I have no problem calling out the people I vote for when/if they purposely lie, cheat, steal or commit treason. I'm ashamed to say I voted for Jindal two times but when he actually won and immediately did the opposite of what he said he would do when elected, not only did I criticize him for doing it, I actively worked on the recall petition.

    Your "you do it too" accusation is the only thing that is nothing more than being petty and is nothing more than an admission of what I've said about you. You will ignore whatever you have to in order to continue to support and defend the indefensible.

    You were lied to and your gullibility was used against you by trump and his supporters. You are part of the crowd that doesn't care if any crimes are committed as long as they are committed by the people you support.

    You are not a radical conservative. You are simply radical. Conservatives actually care about the constitution and the rule of law. True conservatives look at the constitution and they see and know that the trump administration took a shirt on it at every turn. True conservatives forced Nixon to resign for his crimes. You, on the other hand, bend over backwards to ignore facts because they indict the person you worship.


    This is rich. It was shame that kept you and most radicals in the shadows. It was shame that kept lawmakers from being complete and unabashed hypocrites. Once trump showed those people that having shame was a weakness, well, they lost their shame and we almost lost our country because of it.

    Shame kept liars, pedophiles and serial abusers from seeking public office. So when you say the left got to power by shaming their opponents as if it was some kind of underhanded tactic, it really shows how your lack of shame has become engrained in you. When you don't do shameful things, shame can't be used against you.

    As to the ignore feature, yeah well maybe you should use it. I won't because I will continue to call out your BS every time you post it, whether its visible to you or not. That feeling you have for wanting to ignore me or others who call out your BS, that's the last remaining modicum of shame that you have left. Stop ignoring it.
    Man, you must have had a rough night. Very emotional post. Nothing really to discuss. Let me see if I can break it down:

    - You are morally superior to me. No argument there. The recall effort demonstrates that. A lion for the republic. Good for you.

    -My positions are indefensible. Agreed but it is fun trying.

    -Trump is bad, but not your guys and I am stupid and gullible. Ok, no push back there obviously, since I am typing this.

    - I am morally inadequate and not a conservative. Yes.

    -Trump is bad again but only him. Ok, this was already covered but you feel the need to hammer this point home. Got it.

    -I am shameful? Ok. Sure, why not.

    -You will, for good of the republic, continue to white knight and keep calling me out on my shameful rhetoric that you don't agree with. Welcome aboard.

    I suggested the ignore feature because I apparently hurt your feelings with my dolt comment. I apologized but obviously by this very emotional immature response, it was not taken. That was for you my friend, not me.

    I think that about covered it. Did I miss the gist of any of those?
     
    Man, you must have had a rough night. Very emotional post. Nothing really to discuss. Let me see if I can break it down:

    - You are morally superior to me. No argument there. The recall effort demonstrates that. A lion for the republic. Good for you.

    -My positions are indefensible. Agreed but it is fun trying.

    -Trump is bad, but not your guys and I am stupid and gullible. Ok, no push back there obviously, since I am typing this.

    - I am morally inadequate and not a conservative. Yes.

    -Trump is bad again but only him. Ok, this was already covered but you feel the need to hammer this point home. Got it.

    -I am shameful? Ok. Sure, why not.

    -You will, for good of the republic, continue to white knight and keep calling me out on my shameful rhetoric that you don't agree with. Welcome aboard.

    I suggested the ignore feature because I apparently hurt your feelings with my dolt comment. I apologized but obviously by this very emotional immature response, it was not taken. That was for you my friend, not me.

    I think that about covered it. Did I miss the gist of any of those?
    You didn't miss anything. You pretty much covered everything that you've already demonstrated about yourself and I pretty much already knew. It's pretty refreshing that you can admit those things about yourself. What's disheartening is that you seem to relish those things as if they were some sort of badge of honor. They are not. They do nothing but discourage people from having genuine conversation with you.

    The sad part about it is that there have been times that it seemed that you were, indeed, interested in adult conversation. Everyone is not going to agree on things and it's good to have those types of conversations. However, you've more than demonstrated that you perfectly willing to be disingenuous in engaging in that type of banter.

    I hope you score points with whomever you are attempting to score points with your shtick. I guess you'd rather laugh while it all burns down around you. Enjoy the rest of your day and Happy Father's Day to you if you have kids.
     
    You didn't miss anything. You pretty much covered everything that you've already demonstrated about yourself and I pretty much already knew. It's pretty refreshing that you can admit those things about yourself. What's disheartening is that you seem to relish those things as if they were some sort of badge of honor. They are not. They do nothing but discourage people from having genuine conversation with you.

    The sad part about it is that there have been times that it seemed that you were, indeed, interested in adult conversation. Everyone is not going to agree on things and it's good to have those types of conversations. However, you've more than demonstrated that you perfectly willing to be disingenuous in engaging in that type of banter.

    I hope you score points with whomever you are attempting to score points with your shtick. I guess you'd rather laugh while it all burns down around you. Enjoy the rest of your day and Happy Father's Day to you if you have kids.
    I don't take my seriously at all so you can have at me. Doesn't bother me at all.

    Yes, my morals, I do wear as a badge of honor, much like you do yours. And you should. People should believe and stand for something otherwise you stand for nothing.

    I am more than aware that just about everyone on here doesn't agree with me. I have no problems with that. I enjoy discussing and debating and I like to learn things. My opinion has also been changed on a few topics as well. However, I am a very stubborn person and some of my values and morals, I won't reconsider just as I am sure you won't either. Again, good on you too.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.”- T. Jefferson

    Thanks man! Happy Father's day to you too. Enjoy it because being a Father today is not easy and I am sure you deserve it!
     

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