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    MT15 said:
    I thought the equipment we are seeing is what the Afghan army abandoned. I thought the US did remove or disable their equipment.
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    Yeah, I did see them driving around in armored vehicles that probably were American made, but I don't know if that was sold to the Afghan army/police or if the Taliban seized them. I wouldn't feel too good about them using our military spec equipment.
     
    Lapaz said:
    The Afghan army is bad because it is very young army with a mixture of people that don't care and some that do, but with corrupt leadership. They're not filled with religious zealots nor martyrs that were willing to die for a cause that was largely unsupportable without the U.S. I think the Taliban had illicit sources of income and support, but Afghanistan is a poor country that needed a lot more time to develop.

    The equipment was another good reason to slow down this departure. We have created a much more formidable foe by leaving behind so much of our equipment. I think Biden was advised that this would happen, but he was determined to get out sooner, rather than later, regardless. If the Taliban changes its ways, then this may not lead to a disaster.
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    I am no fan of Trump, but a question that begs an answer is: What would Trump have done that is different? Both Biden and Trump wanted out. Who would have created the biggest CF?
     
    Paul said:
    I am no fan of Trump, but a question that begs an answer is: What would Trump have done that is different? Both Biden and Trump wanted out. Who would have created the biggest CF?
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    Hard to say. What Biden did here is very Trumpian. The only difference is that he takes responsibility for the decision (albeit not the results)
    If we are to believe that Biden's national security team had no idea this could happen, then our problems are much bigger than one man. But given Biden's history of poor judgment on foreign affairs, his tendency to act on emotion, and yes, the fact that he's forking really old and stubborn, I'm blaming him.

    Would Trump have been just as bad or worse? Who knows. Trump knows literally nothing about anything other than fanning flames in culture wars, so when it comes to real war his decision making is just a blind gamble. That said, the one area where he would sometimes listen to his advisors was for military matters. So who knows.
     
    porculator said:
    Hard to say. What Biden did here is very Trumpian. The only difference is that he takes responsibility for the decision (albeit not the results)
    If we are to believe that Biden's national security team had no idea this could happen, then our problems are much bigger than one man. But given Biden's history of poor judgment on foreign affairs, his tendency to act on emotion, and yes, the fact that he's forking really old and stubborn, I'm blaming him.

    Would Trump have been just as bad or worse? Who knows. Trump knows literally nothing about anything other than fanning flames in culture wars, so when it comes to real war his decision making is just a blind gamble. That said, the one area where he would sometimes listen to his advisors was for military matters. So who knows.
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    Who is running the show inn America? Trump was a clown, Biden is senile. Harris is a light weight. Who is really in charge?

    The latest administrations running the country do not project the same sense of competency of previous presidents in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.
     
    Paul said:
    Who is running the show inn America? Trump was a clown, Biden is senile. Harris is a light weight. Who is really in charge?

    The latest administrations running the country do not project the same sense of competency of previous presidents in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.
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    The sad thing? The truly tragic thing? Trump really was running the show, he really was in charge. To the extent we have a 'shadow government' it's made up of the low and mid-level people who's hands actually turn the dials, type the memos and work the gears...but they don't make high-level decisions.
     
    Taurus said:
    The sad thing? The truly tragic thing? Trump really was running the show, he really was in charge. To the extent we have a 'shadow government' it's made up of the low and mid-level people who's hands actually turn the dials, type the memos and work the gears...but they don't make high-level decisions.
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    That is likely true.

    In a large bureaucrasy it is often difficult to determine who is in charge as it is easy to punt or pass the buck. The multiple actors do not have a personal stake and they are generally just want to look good. I suspect Biden allows the system to do much of the work and that you are correct. It is likely Trump wanted to be more involved.

    I suspect the exit form Afghanistan is a bureaucrasy fo-ok up by many who did not have to share personal responsibility for mistakes made. At then end Biden had to take the blame. I seriously doubt Biden was the man planning this.

    "The Constitution makes little mention of the bureaucracy, other than to give the president power to appoint various sorts of officials. In 1789 Congress gave the president power to remove officials without congressional assent, but the question of who (if anyone) would actually control the bureaucracy has been hotly contested throughout American history."

    The US Bureaucracy: Navigating the Administrative State

    Explore the intricate web of the US bureaucracy in this 5,000-word essay, analyzing its structure, functions, and impact on American governance.
    www.socialstudieshelp.com www.socialstudieshelp.com
     
    Paul said:
    Who is running the show inn America? Trump was a clown, Biden is senile. Harris is a light weight. Who is really in charge?

    The latest administrations running the country do not project the same sense of competency of previous presidents in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.
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    Well, for one, the a president can't control the media narrative the way they once could. But also, I don't think its a coincidence that all of the presidents from the 60s 70s and 80s served in the military. That doesn't make them perfect human beings, but at the very least it means they could function in a meritocracy that demands discipline, sound judgment, and a sense of duty (all traits that are too boring for presidential candidates these days)
     
    porculator said:
    Well, for one, the a president can't control the media narrative the way they once could. But also, I don't think its a coincidence that all of the presidents from the 60s 70s and 80s served in the military. That doesn't make them perfect human beings, but at the very least it means they could function in a meritocracy that demands discipline, sound judgment, and a sense of duty (all traits that are too boring for presidential candidates these days)
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    There is no way any president can stay on top of everything. Ideally the bureaucrasy that surrounds POTIS does a great job. This time around they Foo--cked up. I believe anyone can be president and that the job requires just a bit of PR skills, knowing how to BS, and having good advisors. Highly intelligent smart men that could run the country efficiently will never get elected because they do not know how to pander to the electorate. I suppose we are moving to an era where POTUS will be just a figure head. My life is always the same regardless of who is president.
     
    Paul said:
    I am no fan of Trump, but a question that begs an answer is: What would Trump have done that is different? Both Biden and Trump wanted out. Who would have created the biggest CF?
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    I doubt Trump would have done anything different. Mostly because he's incompetent and kept shuffling boot-lickers in and out of his cabinet so who knows if whoever would be charge would have two brain cells to rub together. Only decent cabinet member he had was Steve Mnuchin.
     
    Paul said:
    There is no way any president can stay on top of everything. Ideally the bureaucrasy that surrounds POTIS does a great job. This time around they Foo--cked up. I believe anyone can be president and that the job requires just a bit of PR skills, knowing how to BS, and having good advisors. Highly intelligent smart men that could run the country efficiently will never get elected because they do not know how to pander to the electorate. I suppose we are moving to an era where POTUS will be just a figure head. My life is always the same regardless of who is president.
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    Not sure about that. POTUS has pretty enormous powers - more than they were really supposed to. Congress doesn't do its job anymore (this isn't just a jab - its a fact - they statistically don't do jack shirt compared to their predecessors) and now legislature is done by the president and the courts that the president appoints. Consider that there was no legislation on gay marriage. No law was changed. It was just a Supreme Court decision by left-leaning (by comparison) court to interpret the law differently.
    Meanwhile our immigration and climate policy consists of whatever president we have trying to force shirt thru executive orders, getting sued, and hoping he gets a federal judge to from "his side" to review the case.

    And thats just domestic policies, which is a pretty recent phenomenon. The president has always had huge unilateral powers in foreign affairs. So your life may be the same regardless of who is president, but ironically a lot of non-Americans can't say the same.
     
    porculator said:
    Well, for one, the a president can't control the media narrative the way they once could. But also, I don't think its a coincidence that all of the presidents from the 60s 70s and 80s served in the military. That doesn't make them perfect human beings, but at the very least it means they could function in a meritocracy that demands discipline, sound judgment, and a sense of duty (all traits that are too boring for presidential candidates these days)
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    Yeah, before the Internet, social media or the growth of alternative, "underground" newspapers that germaned in late 50's, early 60's and exploded in popularity in the late 60's, you'd be amazed at how easily, cleverly, and ruthlessly powerful, manipulative politicians could control media's.dominate narrative mostly to their advantages. If one looks at the flow and dissemination of information as it relates to mass media consumption, reliability, state-enforced censorship or crackdown, or media self-censorship or reticence pre-Internet, social media world 45 years ago, they'd be amazed what one could get away with back then or have "buried".

    The Kennedys were masters at it. LBJ was brutally ruthless, corrupt in how he co-opted to pass much of his Great Society social programs by reluctant Dems or GOP senators like Sen. Fulbright, who, after their long-term political alliance ended after Fulbright discovered LBJ lied about the nature, full context of what really happened in the Gulf of Tonkin incident in August 1964 had the FBI surveilling him and how it was cleverly and subtly manipulated to escalate U.S. military involvement in Vietnam (by 1963, one could make a reasoned argument U.S. troops were already involved,.albeit in a !limited, low-level way, a limited war, Johnson just formalized it to a much greater, fuller extent by sending in the first major ground troops, started Operation Rolling Thunder, the bombing of North Vietnam, and later covertly, Laos and Cambodia trying to disrupt, interfere VC/ NVA supply routes through Ho Chi Minh Trail).
     
    SaulGoodmanEsq said:
    I doubt Trump would have done anything different. Mostly because he's incompetent and kept shuffling boot-lickers in and out of his cabinet so who knows if whoever would be charge would have two brain cells to rub together. Only decent cabinet member he had was Steve Mnuchin.
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    Kellyanne Conway, before she became the butt of epic, arguably lowball, kind of dirty but extremely funny takedown skits by Kate McKinnon on SNL, was pretty effective at least during Trump's 2016 Presidential campaign as his main communications director, she stepped in IIRC, around August 2016 and significantly curtailed his press conferences which were becoming toxic, memorable bigoted shouting matches and also helped introduce the concept of alternative facts(one way she described once was saying,."2 + 2 equals 4, but so does 1 +3") when one tries to wrap their head around that sort of logic and reasoning from a political perspective, it might make some sense at least from a cursory level. Now, of course by the end of Trump's first year in office, she had been relegated to a minor, barely-participant role.
     
    I have a feeling anyone would have done this differently than this administration. Our allies responses show this was a mistake and not planned at all really. Now we have dead US Marines and a Corpsman.
    I think my little niece could have planned this better especially since it seems like it was not planned at all, except by China.

    I just hope this doesn't lead to impeachment/resignation, because this senile kid sniffer is all that stand in the way of a short but policy packed Harris cluster.
     

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