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    Farb said:
    I thought we were looking to import oil? Are we not?
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    We are a net exporter of oil. We do buy some but we sell more than we buy. Been that way for a years now and had nothing to do with the president, I don’t think.
     
    Farb said:
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    Has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. Nothing. You haven’t refuted a single fact. You are trying to get me to play politics with you. The game is economics and free market. I don’t care what this guy’s question was. It doesn’t change the facts that oil companies are shutting down refineries all over the world because they KNOW the future is electric.

    As for the oil companies’ profits, they are making the most out of this last surge. If I was them, I wouldn’t want to cut into my profits now, knowing the market is going to eventually turn gas into a money loser for the most part. I don’t have to like it, but I see where they are coming from.
     
    We are basically producing as much oil as we are consuming, with more production being added every month. Oil production in the United States plummeted in 2020 (during Trump's presidency) due to demand destruction caused by the pandemic. Oil production started picking back up at the end of 2020 and has continued since.

    High gas prices have very little to do directly with any policy regarding oil supply in the United States.

    Sandman is correct that gas refineries are a huge bottleneck, I don't think a new refinery has been built in a very, very long time, and some are even shutting down. There have been no new rules or regulations put into place regarding refineries with this administration.

    That being said, oil companies are reluctant to expand b/c they've gone through boom and bust cycles in the past. Oil needs to be a certain price for them to be profitable, and they don't want to get caught like they have in the past where they do expensive extraction expecting a certain return on their investment only to have the oil market collapse like it has in the past. This is probably the main reason Trump negotiated for Saudi Arabia to cut oil production in the spring of 2020, they were in a spat with Russia and pumping out oil like crazy and it was putting some American oil producers out of business as well.
     
    Oil isn't going away anytime soon, but the transition away from it is almost irreversible at this point. There is little incentive to expand into expensive extraction fields since demand will probably reach a peak in the next 10 years or so. After that it will level off for a while and then eventually fall.

    It would have been nice if we had been investing more heavily into alternatives over the past 20 years so that the transition would be less painful, and also quicker producing less harmful effects from climate change (basically we're going to have to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on drought mitigation and flood protections).
     
    How much has the government over time paid to these companies to create/research electric vehicles? To say that politics is not involved in the energy crisis we are in just wishful thinking.

    I just don't buy that before the pandemic, when the economy was the best historically gas was on average $2.60 before the pandemic and now it is over $5 in this short of time. With this administrations open war on fossil fuel, that, I believed caused the oil companies to be a lot more prudent on spending their money.

    This inevitable move is being rushed, pure and simple. There are still countries in the world that don't have enough access to fossil fuels, much less alternatives energy sources that are just not sustainable at this point. What do we do with those or help?
    I have a feeling, the green energy lobby is paying out a lot of money. Why would they not? They plan to replace the oil companies and that is a lot of money and power to hold. Lord knows the oil companies have used their lobby money very well in the past.
    It is really capitalism at its finest. But the state will has gotten involved and then through bureaucratic idiots, have screwed it up as per usual.
     
    UncleTrvlingJim said:
    Oil isn't going away anytime soon, but the transition away from it is almost irreversible at this point. There is little incentive to expand into expensive extraction fields since demand will probably reach a peak in the next 10 years or so. After that it will level off for a while and then eventually fall.

    It would have been nice if we had been investing more heavily into alternatives over the past 20 years so that the transition would be less painful, and also quicker producing less harmful effects from climate change (basically we're going to have to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on drought mitigation and flood protections).
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    I read something the other day that I did not know - maybe true, even, lol. Someone wrote that Jimmy Carter had worked hard on an alternative energy plan, and if elected to a second term we would now be in a much better place as far as dependence on fossil fuels.
     
    Farb said:
    How much has the government over time paid to these companies to create/research electric vehicles? To say that politics is not involved in the energy crisis we are in just wishful thinking.

    I just don't buy that before the pandemic, when the economy was the best historically gas was on average $2.60 before the pandemic and now it is over $5 in this short of time. With this administrations open war on fossil fuel, that, I believed caused the oil companies to be a lot more prudent on spending their money.

    This inevitable move is being rushed, pure and simple. There are still countries in the world that don't have enough access to fossil fuels, much less alternatives energy sources that are just not sustainable at this point. What do we do with those or help?
    I have a feeling, the green energy lobby is paying out a lot of money. Why would they not? They plan to replace the oil companies and that is a lot of money and power to hold. Lord knows the oil companies have used their lobby money very well in the past.
    It is really capitalism at its finest. But the state will has gotten involved and then through bureaucratic idiots, have screwed it up as per usual.
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    Read the article I just posted. Ford is expanding a plant they are currently building because demand for electric vehicles surpassed their expectations. This is the free market saying “we want electric vehicles.”

    We haven’t been rushing the move to electric. If anything, oil companies have used their influence to slow the move. We should have been moving much faster. Honestly, it should have started in the 1970s with the oil embargo. Every few years we have some “oil crisis” that jacks up the price of gas. It goes back down, but not to the levels it once was. Slowly we have built up to where we are now. It is a pattern that will only continue in the future if we do nothing. If we would have started moving in the direction of electric cars back then, maybe we would be passed all of this by now.

    You say “you just don’t buy” what I have been saying. Yet, you offer no other explanation other than conspiracy theories and beliefs with no factual basis. I am giving you evidence, and you respond with “I don’t believe you” for no other reason than it doesn’t comport preconceived beliefs. You want bias confirmation when the facts say your bias is wrong.
     
    Sandman said:
    Read the article I just posted. Ford is expanding a plant they are currently building because demand for electric vehicles surpassed their expectations. This is the free market saying “we want electric vehicles.”

    We haven’t been rushing the move to electric. If anything, oil companies have used their influence to slow the move. We should have been moving much faster. Honestly, it should have started in the 1970s with the oil embargo. Every few years we have some “oil crisis” that jacks up the price of gas. It goes back down, but not to the levels it once was. Slowly we have built up to where we are now. It is a pattern that will only continue in the future if we do nothing. If we would have started moving in the direction of electric cars back then, maybe we would be passed all of this by now.

    You say “you just don’t buy” what I have been saying. Yet, you offer no other explanation other than conspiracy theories and beliefs with no factual basis. I am giving you evidence, and you respond with “I don’t believe you” for no other reason than it doesn’t comport preconceived beliefs. You want bias confirmation when the facts say your bias is wrong.
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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...c10444-a137-11ec-9438-255709b6cddc_story.html

    So again, Biden is asking for more oil production, the oil companies won't because the plan is to put them out of business. It is like an abusive relationship.

    The political fall out could go either way. I think the blame will shift to Dems as you will see in November, minus a new pandemic or what not.
     
    MT15 said:
    I read something the other day that I did not know - maybe true, even, lol. Someone wrote that Jimmy Carter had worked hard on an alternative energy plan, and if elected to a second term we would now be in a much better place as far as dependence on fossil fuels.
    Click to expand...
    That is probably correct, considering he was in charge of the gas crisis. Pain is the desired product.
     
    Farb said:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...c10444-a137-11ec-9438-255709b6cddc_story.html

    So again, Biden is asking for more oil production, the oil companies won't because the plan is to put them out of business. It is like an abusive relationship.

    The political fall out could go either way. I think the blame will shift to Dems as you will see in November, minus a new pandemic or what not.
    Click to expand...
    I believe the political fallout will go against the Dems. The problem is it is because people don’t understand the issue. If everyone was honest with the situation—we are moving away from gas to electric and companies don’t want to invest—people would be more understanding of the issue. The high gas prices still suck, but they aren’t just looking for someone to point the finger toward.

    As it is, we have people with flags flying from their truck with a handwritten note on the back window that reads, “open Keystone pipeline.” (I actually saw that yesterday driving home). People don’t understand because their politicians are looking to score political points rather than being honest. Have to keep the base angry at someone, whether it is warranted or not.
     
    Why would any company invest in oil when we know for a fact that as soon as Putin dies and relations return to normal, Russia will be pumping every drop they can as fast as they can for years to try and rebuild their economy?
     
    Farb said:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...c10444-a137-11ec-9438-255709b6cddc_story.html

    So again, Biden is asking for more oil production, the oil companies won't because the plan is to put them out of business. It is like an abusive relationship.

    The political fall out could go either way. I think the blame will shift to Dems as you will see in November, minus a new pandemic or what not.
    Click to expand...

    You're basically alleging that either capitalism doesn't work or that the oil companies are colluding.
     
    UncleTrvlingJim said:
    You're basically alleging that either capitalism doesn't work or that the oil companies are colluding.
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    Colluding is looking at the market futures and regulatory futures of their industry?
     
    Sandman said:
    Actually, I think he is trying to make the point that this is just capitalism and free market forces at play.
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    I see that, but is it free market when government regulations are in play?
     

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