Biden stepping down - now what? (1 Viewer)

[zztop]

I feel like this deserves a separate topic.
What will be the plan for the DNC?
How will this all shake out?

 

[Nebaghead]

That will never happen. If it were to happen your vote outside of Chicago, New York and Los Angeles is worth bull squat. The Electoral College is there so everyone has an equal vote. Get rid of it and politicians would just need those places to win every year.

Electoral college means your vote doesn’t mean squat. All Electoral college does is give relevance for campaigning in states that would otherwise not be worth spending money in. Every vote would be equal no matter where you live with a popular vote, it would take away attention from smaller swing states where they need to get the swing votes to get that states electoral votes.
Going to a split electoral would at least make it more fair. Maine and Nebraska have it.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I will use Illinois as my example. Lake County and Cook County decide the Governor for the most part.

The Electoral College has nothing to do with a state race.

That’s where the population of Illinois is located.

So that's where the majority of voters are.

Do the views of those two counties reflect the rest of the state? The answer is no it doesn’t.

So should each individuals who are in the minority have their votes count for more than each individual who is in the majority? That would be tyranny by the minority and it's currently what is happening because of the Electoral College system.

So outside of those counties your vote is useless.

What makes their votes "useless?"

If the voters in Lake County and Cook County moved to the rural areas and the people in the rural areas moved into Lake County and Cook County, then what would happen?

 

[Semper]

Electoral college means your vote doesn’t mean squat. All Electoral college does is give relevance for campaigning in states that would otherwise not be worth spending money in. Every vote would be equal no matter where you live with a popular vote, it would take away attention from smaller swing states where they need to get the swing votes to get that states electoral votes.
Going to a split electoral would at least make it more fair. Maine and Nebraska have it.

So if you live in let’s say Louisiana your vote is no longer important. They would really need to just campaign in California, TX, FL, NY and PA. That’s where 1/3 of the US population lives. Are the values in Louisiana the same as California?

 

[MT15]

I will use Illinois as my example. Lake County and Cook County decide the Governor for the most part. That’s where the population of Illinois is located. Do the views of those two counties reflect the rest of the state? The answer is no it doesn’t. So outside of those counties your vote is useless.

The EC makes me feel exactly the same way though. Plus my state is already ignored in national campaigning because it isn’t a swing state, so one side takes it for granted and the other side thinks it’s a waste of time.

Another concern I have about the EC is the monkey business Trump tried to pull with it last time. Fake electoral votes and all. I’d rather not have that extra layer for politicians to mess with.

 

[Semper]

Look you guys are pushing the population vote because the democrats own the major cities like Chicago, NY etc. If the Republicans were owning those states you would want it the other way.

 

[MT15]

Look you guys are pushing the population vote because the democrats own the major cities like Chicago, NY etc. If the Republicans were owning those states you would want it the other way.

Honestly, that’s not it. But aren’t you tacitly admitting that the GOP is a minority party? (joking!)

If the EC went away, you would see more campaigning outside of so-called swing states. But the EC isn’t the main reason our elections are messy right now. I blame dark money PACS and so forth. We need election finance reform badly.

 

[Semper]

Honestly, that’s not it. But aren’t you tacitly admitting that the GOP is a minority party? (joking!)

If the EC went away, you would see more campaigning outside of so-called swing states. But the EC isn’t the main reason our elections are messy right now. I blame dark money PACS and so forth. We need election finance reform badly.

I would love some reform myself. We basically get crap candidates shoved down our throats because of corporations. Billionaires decide who we get to vote for and that’s messed up.

 

[coldseat]

So if you live in let’s say Louisiana your vote is no longer important. They would really need to just campaign in California, TX, FL, NY and PA. That’s where 1/3 of the US population lives. Are the values in Louisiana the same as California?

Is Louisiana paid attention to now? Is there anybody that doesn't know that the Louisiana EC votes are all going to Trump? If the EC votes where split up, would it give more reason to Democrat presidential nominee as well as the Republican presidential nominee to campaign there in order to maximize/sure up as many votes as possible?

 

[Semper]

Is Louisiana paid attention to now? Is there anybody that doesn't know that the Louisiana EC votes are all going to Trump? If the EC votes where split up, would it give more reason to Democrat presidential nominee as well as the Republican presidential nominee to campaign there in order to maximize/sure up as many votes as possible?

That is different than abolishing the electoral college. Either way it won’t happen in my lifetime.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

So if you live in let’s say Louisiana your vote is no longer important. They would really need to just campaign in California, TX, FL, NY and PA. That’s where 1/3 of the US population lives. Are the values in Louisiana the same as California?

Here's why you rationale makes zero sense... if all votes mattered, George W. Bush's second term would have been the only one he'd serve because the popular vote (where each vote counts) has gone to the Democratic candidate in every election since Reagan (edit: Bush I) outside of 2004. This is why Republicans never want to see the Electoral College eliminated.

 

[LA - L.A.]

That’s where 1/3 of the US population lives. Are the values in Louisiana the same as California?

Not everyone in Louisiana has the same values, and they never will. Not everyone in Louisiana values Trump, but he will probably get everyone of Louisiana's Electoral College votes. According to you, that's not fair representation for all of the people in Louisiana.

This is where you're line of reasoning completely falls apart. I'm from Louisiana. I had the same values when I lived there as I do now that I live in California. I have dozens of friends and family who still live in Louisiana and have the same values I do.

There has never been a presidential election result in any state where everyone in that state voted for the same candidate. Most states fall within the range of a 60-40 split among people who actually voted. There aren't any true "red" or "blue" states.

The Electoral College creates the illusion of "red" and "blue" states, because even if a candidate only gets 50.01% of the vote in a state, they get all of the Electoral College votes for that state. According to you, that's not fair representation for all of the people who live in that state.

 

[Nebaghead]

Not everyone in Louisiana has the same values, and they never will. Not everyone in Louisiana values Trump, but he will probably get everyone of Louisiana's Electoral College votes. According to you, that's not fair representation for all of the people in Louisiana.

This is where you're line of reasoning completely falls apart. I'm from Louisiana. I had the same values when I lived there as I do now that I live in California. I have dozens of friends and family who still live in Louisiana and have the same values I do.

There has never been a presidential election result in any state where everyone in that state voted for the same candidate. Most states fall within the range of a 60-40 split among people who actually voted. There aren't any true "red" or "blue" states.

The Electoral College creates the illusion of "red" and "blue" states, because even if a candidate only gets 50.01% of the vote in a state, they get all of the Electoral College votes for that state. According to you, that's not fair representation for all of the people who live in that state.

I get @Semper your issue with a certain demographic getting all the attention because they are in a populated area and it is cheaper to go to a city than travel to small towns. Essentially, that is what happens now with the electoral college. The swing states that are visited only get campaign events in the population centers. They go where they get the most bang for their buck.

Nebraska and Maine have the best compromises in my opinion. A certain amount of electoral votes go to the popular vote and the congressional districts each reward their vote to the winner of that district. I live in Omaha and Nebraska hasn’t had a democrat governor since the 90’s (Ben Nelson) and then he became the only democrat Senator we’ve had since the early 80’s. However, Omaha is very purple and can swing each way. I Biden and Obama each won it once. This at least makes my vote count.

 

[Incumbent]

Look you guys are pushing the population vote because the democrats own the major cities like Chicago, NY etc. If the Republicans were owning those states you would want it the other way.

So is that also why you’re pushing the electoral college format?

I prefer popular vote because I believe every vote should count and the winner should be the person to get the most votes. I think a proportional system is at least a better compromise.

As was pointed out in this thread, removing the EC would realistically improve turnout, resulting in more red voters showing up in places like California and blue voters in Texas. That would allow more voices to be heard, fewer people that candidates can ignore, and elections decided with far greater participation.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Look you guys are pushing the population vote because the democrats own the major cities like Chicago, NY etc. If the Republicans were owning those states you would want it the other way.

The Electoral College was originally set up so that each EC vote would represent nearly the same number of people. Due to amendments to the Constitution and laws passed by Congress, each Electoral College vote now represents a significantly different number of people, by design. In the 1920's, the Electoral College stopped functioning how the founding fathers intended it to function.

When the Electoral College system was created, the Constitution mandated they every seat in the House of Representatives represent the same number of people. Congress passed a law in the 1920's that have lead to different House seats representing a significantly different number of people.

I've wanted to do away with the Electoral College vote ever since I learned about it in my freshman year Civics class in 1980. I want every vote to count equally regardless of how they vote or where they live. I had that same opinion and value for the first 30 years of my life living in Louisiana.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Honestly, that’s not it. But aren’t you tacitly admitting that the GOP is a minority party? (joking!)

If the EC went away, you would see more campaigning outside of so-called swing states. But the EC isn’t the main reason our elections are messy right now. I blame dark money PACS and so forth. We need election finance reform badly.

Ranked choice voting in all elections decreases the influence of dark money which creates the opportunity to pass laws that limit the influence of money on elections.

Ranked choice voting is one of the things that people should be equally pushing for in every non-presidential election. Ranked choice voting in presidential elections with the current Electoral College system still in place would very likely lead to the House of Representatives getting to choose presidents.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I would love some reform myself. We basically get crap candidates shoved down our throats because of corporations. Billionaires decide who we get to vote for and that’s messed up.

So, billionaires have shoved Donald Trump down our throats? I know you feel that way about Democratic candidates, but what about the Republican candidates? Do you ever vote for Democratic candidates, or do you just vote straight Republican?

 

[LA - L.A.]

That is different than abolishing the electoral college. Either way it won’t happen in my lifetime.

Would you like to see EC votes split up in according to the voting splits in each state?

 

[J-DONK]

The EC makes me feel exactly the same way though. Plus my state is already ignored in national campaigning because it isn’t a swing state, so one side takes it for granted and the other side thinks it’s a waste of time.

Another concern I have about the EC is the monkey business Trump tried to pull with it last time. Fake electoral votes and all. I’d rather not have that extra layer for politicians to mess with.

There is a huge Trump campaign article I linked about a week ago. They talked about only 4 BG states really mattering this cycle: AZ, Penn, MI, WI.

There isn't a good argument for the EC. You can get a popular vote tally easy enough.

It will take Republicans winning the popular vote but losing the EC for it to finally change though.