Assassination attempt on Trump (1 Viewer)

[SaintForLife]

Trump is alive, but his ear was bleeding

 

[SamAndreas]

Hot off the press

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Get out a fire extinguisher and put that fire out.

 

[SaintForLife]

 

[samiam5211]

What that has been insinuated here is that somehow Trump is to blame for his own assassination attempt.

That is still very possible.

There isn’t any more reason to blame the left than there is to blame Trump.

We have no idea what motivated the shooter. There is more evidence to suggest the shooter was a conservative than anything else.

 

[RobF]

I think Obama was once called Hitler, and that’s when I first saw this meme “Everyone I don’t like is Hitler.”

It just seems lazy when people go to the Hitler comparisons. Like, that’s when you know that the exchange of ideas is over

No.

"People make inappropriate comparisons to Hitler." That's true. "People make inappropriate comparisons to Hitler, therefore all comparisons to Hitler are inappropriate." That's clearly wrong. Apt comparisons to Hitler can't be dismissed because other, different, comparisons to Hitler were inappropriate.

The meme you're citing there is basically the latest incarnation of Godwin's Law, which most people who've been around the internet for a while will have heard of. That simply stated, "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." What it did not state was that the comparison would automatically be invalid, or that it would mean someone had lost the argument, because both of those would clearly not necessarily be the case.

But this goes back further of course, to before the internet. See also Reductio ad Hitlerum; the act of making fallacious arguments to invalidate an idea on the basis that it was something akin to Hitler's actions. But as also noted on that page, that applies to fallacious arguments, not all arguments: "Historian Daniel Goldhagen, who had written about the Holocaust, argues that not all comparisons to Hitler and Nazism are logical fallacies since if they all were, there would be nothing to learn from the events that resulted in the Holocaust."

It is clearly possible and appropriate to draw comparisons to Hitler when the comparisons are there to be made. If, for example, a politician seeking power was echoing Hitler's rhetoric through repeated references to things like "poisoning the blood of our country," the comparison is clearly there to be made. The onus is on the politician to not use such dehumanising, hateful, rhetoric, not on others to not point it out.

Godwin thinks so too: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/19/godwins-law-trump-hitler-00132427

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Are you suggesting that there was a conspiracy to kill Trump?

100% of MAGA thinks this without question.

 

[SamAndreas]

No.

"People make inappropriate comparisons to Hitler." That's true. "People make inappropriate comparisons to Hitler, therefore all comparisons to Hitler are inappropriate." That's clearly wrong. Apt comparisons to Hitler can't be dismissed because other, different, comparisons to Hitler were inappropriate.

The meme you're citing there is basically the latest incarnation of Godwin's Law, which most people who've been around the internet for a while will have heard of. That simply stated, "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." What it did not state was that the comparison would automatically be invalid, or that it would mean someone had lost the argument, because both of those would clearly not necessarily be the case.

But this goes back further of course, to before the internet. See also Reductio ad Hitlerum; the act of making fallacious arguments to invalidate an idea on the basis that it was something akin to Hitler's actions. But as also noted on that page, that applies to fallacious arguments, not all arguments: "Historian Daniel Goldhagen, who had written about the Holocaust, argues that not all comparisons to Hitler and Nazism are logical fallacies since if they all were, there would be nothing to learn from the events that resulted in the Holocaust."

It is clearly possible and appropriate to draw comparisons to Hitler when the comparisons are there to be made. If, for example, a politician seeking power was echoing Hitler's rhetoric through repeated references to things like "poisoning the blood of our country," the comparison is clearly there to be made. The onus is on the politician to not use such dehumanising, hateful, rhetoric, not on others to not point it out.

Godwin thinks so too: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/19/godwins-law-trump-hitler-00132427

During my life I encountered an individual named Mike Godwin, he formulated Godwin's Law.

Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule), short for Godwin's law of Nazi analogies,[1] is an Internet adage asserting: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

I met him on THE WELL in during the 1980's, before his law. The Well is where this all began. It was the first place on the Internet, before the Internet existed. I was there.

It was a San Francisco Bay Area Internet before the Internet place in America was created. The Whole Earth Lectronic Link.

The Well, the (Whole Earth Lectronic Link). A hippy thing, It was established in 1985.

My wife hosts a forum there to this very day.

 

[SaintForLife]

 

[SaintForLife]

How in the world can all that happen without someone getting Trump off the stage?

 

[el caliente]

100% of MAGA thinks this without question.

It would be foolish to dismiss anything this early into the process.

 

[Bayouboy]

Say what you want, but Trump's rise to power and folks in high government positions bending policy or law in his favor is very much like early 1930's Germany and the man with the mustache. The cult-like following. There are numerous parallels. In this instance, it has nothing to do with "Godwin's Law".

 

[MT15]

How in the world can all that happen without someone getting Trump off the stage?

If you are talking about after the shots are fired, the answer seems to be that the SS deferred to Trump himself. He demanded they retrieve his shoes, he resisted their efforts to get him off the stage. So it seems to be an all around failure. Maybe decades of no attempts like this have bred complacency. We don’t know yet.

We are going to get an independent investigation. Nobody in any official capacity in the SS or FBI should be engaging in speculative talk at this point in the investigation and to post someone who is feigning outrage that the director won’t speculate about this is cynically political.

 

[el caliente]

Yeah.. The two biggest moments of the campaign so far are Biden looking weak during the debate and Trump looking strong as shirt right here after someone tried to shoot him in the head.

I'm honestly moving into territory where I'd be more surprised if Biden won this year than I was when Trump won in 2016. Still a ways to go and who the hell exactly knows, but yeah..

The Trump bump happened on Wall Street ( and in the crypto market) yesterday.

Dow closes at record high after Trump survives assassination attempt | CNN Business

US markets rose Monday as investors processed the assassination attempt on former President Donald Trump over the weekend.

amp.cnn.com

Bitcoin rises as Trump shooting seen increasing re-election odds

Bitcoin rose as much as 2.1% to $59,849.84, before paring that advance to trade at about $59,426 as of 10:25 p.m., New York time.

fortune.com

I was listening to a podcast this morning and they discussed their theory as to why they jumped after the news of his assassination attempt, and they believe that after Saturday’s events )and Biden’s sluggish showings) that the market is resigning its expectations to Trump winning in November.

Quite frankly I had no idea how different Trump and Biden’s stances regarding crypto were until I read about the bump, and why there was such a bump.

 

[MT15]

Quite frankly I had no idea how different Trump and Biden’s stances regarding crypto were

Did you also know that Trump only recently changed his views after a donor with a big stake in crypto talked to him? Did a complete 180 for the money. That’s the problem with candidates whose ideology is for sale - it will change at a moment’s notice just depending on who is the higher bidder.

I also think the idea that Wall Street is up because they think Trump will win is ludicrous. Trump’s stated policies will kill Wall Street. Of course, Wall Street also hates chaos, which is Trump’s real specialty.

https://www.axios.com/2024/06/25/trump-ceo-low-support-republicans

 

[el caliente]

Agreed. I don’t think he cares all that much about crypto, but in appointing Vance (tech VC) he is going all in.

For the sake of this thread however, I just thought that it was interesting that there could be a bump in Crypto and in the market due to this weekends assassination attempt.

 

[el caliente]

Big Oof

Jack Black Cancels Remainder Of Tenacious D Tour After Bandmate's Comment About Trump Shooting

The School Of Rock star said he'd been "blindsided" by bandmate Kyle Gass' remark.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

I really like Jack Black, and appreciate him taking such a stance. I don’t think that Tenacious D should be canceled for such comments, but I find it interesting that they canceled the remainder of their shows due to the comment. I wonder if some this going on under the surface there.

Trump is a pretty unlovable guy, and the assassination attempt didn’t change that, however wishing that the shooter hadn’t missed is pretty low.

 

[DaveXA]

Not sure why she'd say anything like that a day or two after it happened. You know, like, gather facts, interview witnesses, interview agents, etc, etc. That takes time. I mean, let's give them a few days to complete at least preliminary findings before getting bent.

 

[Incumbent]

Big Oof

Jack Black Cancels Remainder Of Tenacious D Tour After Bandmate's Comment About Trump Shooting

The School Of Rock star said he'd been "blindsided" by bandmate Kyle Gass' remark.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

I really like Jack Black, and appreciate him taking such a stance. I don’t think that Tenacious D should be canceled for such comments, but I find it interesting that they canceled the remainder of their shows due to the comment. I wonder if some this going on under the surface there.

Trump is a pretty unlovable guy, and the assassination attempt didn’t change that, however wishing that the shooter hadn’t missed is pretty low.

Too bad such demonstrations of accountability, self-reflection, and consequences are overwhelmingly one-sided.

A man guilty of a growing list of transgressions and facing mounting allegations will continue his presidential bid. A misogynistic cretin who says some people need killing will continue his gubernatorial bid. But at least Tenacious D won’t be out there playing music.

 

[el caliente]

Too bad such demonstrations of accountability, self-reflection, and consequences are overwhelmingly one-sided.

A man guilty of a growing list of transgressions and facing mounting allegations will continue his presidential bid. A misogynistic cretin who says some people need killing will continue his gubernatorial bid. But at least Tenacious D won’t be out there playing music.

This is only a tribute