All things Racist...USA edition (3 Viewers)

[Farb]

I was looking for a place to put this so we could discuss but didn't really find a place that worked so I created this thread so we can all place articles, experiences, videos and examples of racism in the USA.

This is one that happened this week. The lady even called and filed a complaint on the officer. This officer also chose to wear the body cam (apparently, LA doesn't require this yet). This exchange wasn't necessarily racist IMO until she started with the "mexican racist...you will never be white, like you want" garbage. That is when it turned racist IMO

All the murderer and other insults, I think are just a by product of CRT and ACAB rhetoric that is very common on the radical left and sadly is being brought to mainstream in this country.

Another point that I think is worth mentioning is she is a teacher and the sense of entitlement she feels is mind blowing.

https://news.yahoo.com/black-teacher-berates-latino-la-221235341.html

 

[Paul]

Most neighborhoods are legally desegregated, but not practically. I'm the only black person most of my wife's nieces and nephews have ever known.

I do agree we have made rapid progress. I also believe we have taken a few steps backwards over the last few years which isn't unusual. Progress is usually 3 steps forward, 1 step back.

We need to find unity rather than more division.
As a Latin American I am usually the only one of my kind everywhere I go. The solution is simple: When in Rome do as the Romans and move on. Some Romans will say "you are not a Roman", however, others will see familiarity and fellowship.

 

[coldseat]

Racism requires one group to feel inferior and the other group to feel superior. Robert McWhorter does not feel inferior so he is not bothered by insulting remarks.

A racist person will use the slur that will cause the most distress. If the recipients shows no distress then the insulting remark loses its power.

Yeah, sorry. Not really buying that.

Racism doesn't require a group to feel inferior. It just requires one group to treat another group as inferior. Which is how it manifest and plays out. Racism isn't just about words. And a racist insult is a racist insult regardless of how somebody takes it or if it affects them.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

There is racism in the law and the legal system.. Why must the obvious be reiterate so often? However, one can avoid prison by not doing crime. The incarceration rate today is not due to one variable (racism). The high incarceration is due to multiple factors.

By the way the rate of incarceration has fallen quite a bit in the last 15 years despite the efforts of the Clintons. Things are moving in the right direction.

Black imprisonment rate in the U.S. has fallen by a third since 2006

There were 1,501 black prisoners for every 100,000 black adults in 2018, down sharply from 2,261 black inmates per 100,000 black adults in 2006.

www.pewresearch.org

I'm sorry, I think I'm not following you. You made a statement that seemed to imply that an unintended effect of liberal policies was the rise of children being raised without a father. I was asking why you believed that to be the case, when black Americans were incarcerated at far higher rates than whites through the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, etc.

It seems a simpler explanation that the reason so many kids were raised without fathers was because their father's were thrown in jail, and eventually normalizing that behavior, than some convoluted side effect of the Great Society. So, I was asking for why you believe differently.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

We need to find unity rather than more division.
As a Latin American I am usually the only one of my kind everywhere I go. The solution is simple: When in Rome do as the Romans and move on. Some Romans will say "you are not a Roman", however, others will see familiarity and fellowship.

Putting all responsibility on other people will always make you the victim. And that's what you are apparently advocating for -- making American society a victim instead of a partner in making things better.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Racism requires one group to feel inferior and the other group to feel superior. Robert McWhorter does not feel inferior so he is not bothered by insulting remarks.

A racist person will use the slur that will cause the most distress. If the recipients shows no distress then the insulting remark loses its power.

Sure, but we should also tell people to not use racist slurs, right?

There seems to be a lot of confusion in "conservative" circles these days. They seem to think that because black Americans can have a good life, work hard and achieve success and happiness in America, that there therefore can be no systemic racism, or that it is minimal.

The following two statements are not contradictory:
1. There has been historic racism in America's past, and that racism has caused disparity that still exist. Systemic racism exists and makes it harder for black Americans to succeed today.
2. Black Americans can succeed through hard work and their own brilliance.

Statement 2 is something for each individual black American to work with, and for their communities to encourage. I am not a black American, so statement 2 is not a thing I can do anything with. I am an American living in today's society and I wish to see racial strife end, and see every American have as close to an equal chance at success and prosperity as possible. So, not being a victim type person, I focus on what I can control, which is on statement 1, and not on what I can't control, which is statement 2.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Yeah, sorry. Not really buying that.

Racism doesn't require a group to feel inferior. It just requires one group to treat another group as inferior. Which is how it manifest and plays out. Racism isn't just about words. And a racist insult is a racist insult regardless of how somebody takes it or if it affects them.

Exactly what I was going to say.

 

[Paul]

Putting all responsibility on other people will always make you the victim. And that's what you are apparently advocating for -- making American society a victim instead of a partner in making things better.

It sounds like you and I see the same issue and come up with totally different conclusions. I don't put any responsibility on others.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do[1] (Medieval Latin sī fuerīs Rōmae, Rōmānō vīvitō mōre; sī fuerīs alibī, vīvitō sīcut ibī; often shortened to when in Rome...),[2] or a later version when in Rome, do as the Pope does

The above it is just sound advice for a happier life. Trying to fit a square in a round hole is futile.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

It sounds like you and I see the same issue and come up with totally different conclusions. I don't put any responsibility on others.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do[1] (Medieval Latin sī fuerīs Rōmae, Rōmānō vīvitō mōre; sī fuerīs alibī, vīvitō sīcut ibī; often shortened to when in Rome...),[2] or a later version when in Rome, do as the Pope does

The above it is just sound advice for a happier life. Trying to fit a square in a round hole is futile.

Right, but that is you telling black Americans what they should do. That will always make you the victim, instead of asking yourself, what should I do to make things better? What policies should I advocate for, and so on...

I'm generally suspicious of any solution that is basically saying, I don't need to do anything, it's everyone else who should be doing something.

 

[Paul]

Sure, but we should also tell people to not use racist slurs, right?

Yes, teach your children proper values!

There seems to be a lot of confusion in "conservative" circles these days. They seem to think that because black Americans can have a good life, work hard and achieve success and happiness in America, that there therefore can be no systemic racism, or that it is minimal.

I do not like Straw men.

Racism will always exist. And if by any chance racism goes away we will have classism. England was 100% white and had classism rather than racism.

America is a flawed nation. Everybody knows that. However this is the place to be if you are a POC from the 3rd world.

The following two statements are not contradictory:
1. There has been historic racism in America's past, and that racism has caused disparity that still exist. Systemic racism exists and makes it harder for black Americans to succeed today.

The most wealthy ethnicity of African ancestry lives right here in the USA. Is that enough? No! Blacks started the race way behind and it will take a long time to catch up. We are moving in the right direction.

2. Black Americans can succeed through hard work and their own brilliance.

Agreed!

Statement 2 is something for each individual black American to work with, and for their communities to encourage. I am not a black American, so statement 2 is not a thing I can do anything with. I am an American living in today's society and I wish to see racial strife end, and see every American have as close to an equal chance at success and prosperity as possible. So, not being a victim type person, I focus on what I can control, which is on statement 1, and not on what I can't control, which is statement 2.

Tell me who benefits from poverty in black America. Which party needs the black vote to get into power? Which is the party that needs victims?
BTW, I am an independent, but I have realized the Dems are almost as bad as the Reps.

 

[DaveXA]

Right, but that is you telling black Americans what they should do. That will always make you the victim, instead of asking yourself, what should I do to make things better? What policies should I advocate for, and so on...

I'm generally suspicious of any solution that is basically saying, I don't need to do anything, it's everyone else who should be doing something.

Yeah, ultimately, as much as I can't stand Hillary, she was right when she said "it takes a village". We all should be doing something and taking responsibility. There has to be skin in the game for everyone involved.

 

[Paul]

Right, but that is you telling black Americans what they should do. That will always make you the victim, instead of asking yourself, what should I do to make things better? What policies should I advocate for, and so on...

The idea that the hope for the future of black Americans is in the hands of whites sounds like condescending bigotry of low expectations.. McWhorter talks about this all the time. Listen to McWhorter, he is a liberal that does not like to be treated like a child by white Americans. The clip is only 4:43 minutes. You may learn something.

I'm generally suspicious of any solution that is basically saying, I don't need to do anything, it's everyone else who should be doing something.

That is the libertarian point of view and it often works. A person needs self accomplishments to be fulfilled.

 

[Optimus Prime]

If there is obvious racism it should be stopped. If the racism is obvious it should be easy to stop. I do not advocate looking the other way.

it seems to me that’s exactly what you’re advocating

you’ve brought up McWhorter several times and what you love most about him is he can be called slurs and he looks the other way

If someone says to him, “you can’t be in here n-word!” He just says “okay, I’ll just go somewhere else”

And then you say, “that’s how you solve racism”

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

The idea that the hope for the future of balck Americans is in the hands of whites sounds like condescending bigotry of low expectations.. McWhorter talks about this all the time. Listen to McWhorter, he is a liberal that does not like to be treated like a child by white Americans. The clip is only 4:43 minutes. You may learn something.


That is the libertarian point of view and it often works. A person needs self accomplishments to be fulfilled.

I've read his articles in the Atlantic, he's obviously very smart, and I agree with a lot of what he has to say in a lot of his articles. I watched this clip, and while I obviously can't say what the majority view of black Americans are, I can say what I'm saying isn't what he's talking about, so I'm not sure why you brought it up in response to my post.

 

[V Chip]

the election of Obama by white voters.

Nah, man.

White voters broke against Obama in both elections -- 43 to 55 against McCain, and 39 to 59 against Romney. Sure, white voters comprised the largest number of votes for Obama, but saying Obama was elected "by white voters" is an extreme reach.

 

[V Chip]

Racism requires one group to feel inferior and the other group to feel superior.

That's a load of horseshit.

When blacks were held as slaves on plantations, it was only racism if the blacks felt inferior or showed that it affected them?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Yes, teach your children proper values!

And if we see someone being an butt crevasse, call them out on it, right? If we see someone harassing someone, we make them stop. We don't look the other way.

I do not like Straw men.

Well, I did use the word "seems" to indicate that I'm open to a better articulation of the conservative stance on this issue, but @Farb did say that systemic racism does not exist, and he's used examples of black Americans succeeding as evidence, so that's where I got the sense that a lot of conservatives believe that some black Americans means there is no systemic racism. It's obviously not universal, you've been very open about accepting that racism exists.

Racism will always exist. And if by any chance racism goes away we will have classism. England was 100% white and had classism rather than racism.

America is a flawed nation. Everybody knows that. However this is the place to be if you are a POC from the 3rd world.

The most wealthy ethnicity of African ancestry lives right here in the USA. Is that enough? No! Blacks started the race way behind and it will take a long time to catch up. We are moving in the right direction.

I don't think this contradicts what I've said. The goal is to continuously make progress, so that everyone has close to an equal chance of success as possible. We are not there yet, and we should strive to get there.

Tell me who benefits from poverty in black America. Which party needs the black vote to get into power? Which is the party that needs victims?
BTW, I am an independent, but I have realized the Dems are almost as bad as the Reps.

I mean maybe? I don't know any politician, so I can't really say what their motives are. I can only determine if I like their policies and actions or not. Right now, from what I see Republicans either deny there are certain problems that I believe exist, or that government has no role in fixing those problems.

Democrats tend to recognize that problems I believe to exist, do in fact exist and that government has a role in fixing those problems, which I also believe. I tend to dislike most Democratic solutions to those problems because they are either too convoluted, or inefficient. But I'll take an inefficient solution most of the time over no solution.

Everyone should consider themselves an independent. You should make the parties earn your vote each election cycle.

 

[Paul]

it seems to me that’s exactly what you’re advocating

you’ve brought up McWhorter several times and what you love most about him is he can be called slurs and he looks the other way

If someone says to him, “you can’t be in here n-word!” He just says “okay, I’ll just go somewhere else”

And then you say, “that’s how you solve racism”

That is not what I said.

 

[Paul]

And if we see someone being an butt crevasse, call them out on it, right? If we see someone harassing someone, we make them stop. We don't look the other way.

Yes, that is how society regulates poor behavior. Society at large and the family at home play a big role. However, when the state mandates a specific behavior (which may be authoritarian) the results are poor.

Well, I did use the word "seems" to indicate that I'm open to a better articulation of the conservative stance on this issue, but @Farb did say that systemic racism does not exist, and he's used examples of black Americans succeeding as evidence, so that's where I got the sense that a lot of conservatives believe that some black Americans means there is no systemic racism. It's obviously not universal, you've been very open about accepting that racism exists.

America was created by Englishmen (enlightenment types) and they did the best they could under the circumstances. Slavery was widely accepted and hence they were men of that era. Therefore the framework of America is WASP. When in America do as Americans and when in Rome do as the Romans. I am not saying what they did was right or wrong, I am just making an observation. American blacks have a hard time fitting into a WASP culture that was based on classism even before they adopted racism. Despite this imperfect beginning America is trying. IN fact all nations of Western heritage are trying their best to help the so-called minorities. The best place in the world for a poor POC from a 3rd world country is the West.

I don't think this contradicts what I've said. The goal is to continuously make progress, so that everyone has close to an equal chance of success as possible. We are not there yet, and we should strive to get there.

There has been massive progress and yet the more progress we have the greater the discontent. IN a sense this is to be expected due to the 24/7 propaganda by the media. The young POC of this era are told they are victims form cradle to the tomb 24/7. Guess what? They have adopted the role of the noble victim. They feel more victimized than the people that suffered in the Jim Crow era. After all this progress they have adopted the concept of systemic racism. The problem with systemic rcism is that it is often an abstract and described according to unequal results in our society. They want equal results rather than equal opportunity. Since the results are not equal they say reason has to be systemic racism. This is madness!

I mean maybe? I don't know any politician, so I can't really say what their motives are. I can only determine if I like their policies and actions or not. Right now, from what I see Republicans either deny there are certain problems that I believe exist, or that government has no role in fixing those problems.

Democrats tend to recognize that problems I believe to exist, do in fact exist and that government has a role in fixing those problems, which I also believe. I tend to dislike most Democratic solutions to those problems because they are either too convoluted, or inefficient. But I'll take an inefficient solution most of the time over no solution.

Everyone should consider themselves an independent. You should make the parties earn your vote each election cycle.

Both Republicans and Democrats do an awful job in helping the poor. The Democrats give them fish all they long so they do not have to fish. The Republicans tell them learn how to fish. Neither approach has worked.