All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (22 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Commander of aircraft carrier hit by coronavirus removed for ‘poor judgment’ after sounding alarm | CNN Politics

The commander of a US aircraft carrier that has been hit by a major outbreak of coronavirus has been relieved of command for showing “poor judgment” days after writing a memo warning Navy leadership that decisive action was needed to save the lives of the ship’s crew, acting Secretary of the...

www.cnn.com

Washington (CNN)The commander of a US aircraft carrier that has been hit by a major outbreak of coronavirus has been relieved of command days after writing a memo warning Navy leadership that decisive action was needed to save the lives of the ship's crew, acting Secretary of the Navy Thomas Modly announced on Thursday.
"Today at my direction the commanding officer of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, Captain Brett Crozier, was relieved of command by carrier strike group commander Rear Admiral Stewart Baker," Modly said during a Pentagon press briefing.
Modly told reporters that Crozier was not removed because of any evidence suggesting he leaked the memo to the press, but rather for allowing "the complexity of his challenge with the COVID breakout on the ship to overwhelm his ability to act professionally when acting professionally was what was needed the most at the time."

 

[Beach Friends]

Commander of aircraft carrier hit by coronavirus removed for ‘poor judgment’ after sounding alarm | CNN Politics

The commander of a US aircraft carrier that has been hit by a major outbreak of coronavirus has been relieved of command for showing “poor judgment” days after writing a memo warning Navy leadership that decisive action was needed to save the lives of the ship’s crew, acting Secretary of the...

www.cnn.com

Sounds like that had to be done.

 

[FullMonte]

Still clinging to the discredited Russiagate huh? What did you think about this since everyone here ignored it?

Justice Dept. Moves to Drop Charges Against Russian Firms Filed by Mueller (Published 2020)

The companies funded Russia’s social media-fueled interference in the 2016 election, prosecutors said. But they tried to weaponize the case instead of fight it.

www.nytimes.com

Still ignoring the actual point of posts to focus on something totally unrelated, huh?

no, I’m not clinging to the mueller investigation. I’m pointing out that Trump has a history of saying that something “might” happen and then changing his mind based on the reaction.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Sounds like that had to be done.

Why?

His actions today are in direct conflict with what he said a little more than 24hrs ago:

Defense Secretary Mark Esper had said just the day before that he did not think the Navy ship would need to be evacuated.


Fox News’ Griffin questioned Modly: “When we asked about this last week, you said that you had no evidence that it was the port visit to Vietnam. Have you changed your assessment in light of the exponentially rising numbers? And was it the letter from the Captain that caused you to start to take -- move faster to remove people from the ship? And is the Captain going to be punished for having raised this in -- in very stark terms?”

Navy leaders were quick to praise the captain for bringing the dire nature of the matter to their attention. They brushed away suggestions that he could be punished because the issue became public so quickly.

"This is exactly what we want our commanding officers and medical professionals to do," Modly said.

"We're not looking to shoot the messenger," he added.

USS Theodore Roosevelt sees 93 sailors with coronavirus; won't be 'resolved' in just a few days

As 93 of the nearly 5,000 sailors assigned to the USS Theodore Roosevelt, now docked in Guam, have tested positive for the coronavirus, the Navy is removing nearly 3,000 sailors aboard the U.S. aircraft carrier by Friday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[SaintForLife]

Still ignoring the actual point of posts to focus on something totally unrelated, huh?

no, I’m not clinging to the mueller investigation. I’m pointing out that Trump has a history of saying that something “might” happen and then changing his mind based on the reaction.

So you bring up the subject of Russiagate, but you complain that I'm focusing on something unrelated?

 

[Devildog]

Why?

Because reasons. Duh.

 

[Beach Friends]

Why?

Again, "sounds like" because there may be info I don't have, but:

He either leaked the memo to the press, or he created the circumstances for it to be leaked by not following the chain of command or following proper security measures.

Loose leaps sink ships. As the commander of one of our most vital assets, he has to protect information regarding that asset's readiness.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Again, "sounds like" because there may be info I don't have, but:

He either leaked the memo to the press, or he created the circumstances for it to be leaked by not following the chain of command or following proper security measures.

Loose leaps sink ships. As the commander of one of our most vital assets, he has to protect information regarding that asset's readiness.

To be fair to you, I edited my post to include information that was already known to SECNAV when he praised the Captain's actions prior to firing the Captain. So, what changed???

 

[dtc]

You can believe who ever you want, you already do. I would be cautious about playing whataboutism with China though, they admitted to lying in their last pandemic and it has come out recently that they are lying about their newest pandemic.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/sars-crisis-china-admits-its-big-deadly-lie-20030421-gdgmut.html

Trump is horrible and Trump is terrible. The US is guilty of everything and we deserve everything we get. We are the scourge of the earth and the world will be better without our evil empire. That might be true.

Can two things be true at once? Can we be terrible and also China is a horrible world neighbor? Or does blame only get to be laid upon our feet?

I have no idea what you're talking about or the point you're trying to make.

China is not to be trusted. They lie as much if not more than Trump and they are not our allies. If anything, they're our commodity drug dealer making themselves rich to feed our addiction for unfettered consumption.

THey use us. We use them.

This is not a relationship based on trust, but mutual dependence. We are addicted to their cheap crap and they are addicted to our money.

Anyone trusting their official news enough to base US policy on is an absolute idiot.

His name seems to be Trump. For his supporters to now go back and pretend it's China's fault is absurd.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Someday presidential historians will fully explore the defects of heart and character that led Donald Trump, in the midst of an unprecedented national crisis threatening hundreds of thousands of deaths, to brag that the television ratings for his afternoon briefings rivaled the “Bachelor” finale or “Monday Night Football.”

This is not mere pettiness. It is clinical solipsism. Exploiting this type of tragedy in the cause of personal vanity reveals Trump’s spirit to be a vast, trackless wasteland.

Trump seems incapable of imagining and reflecting the fears, suffering and grief of his fellow citizens. We have witnessed the total failure of empathy in presidential leadership.

So far, frankly, it hasn’t mattered very much. The main focus has been, appropriately, on the president’s lack of competence. We clearly have a medical and scientific A-team being supported by a White House D-team.

Trump’s initial failure of urgency wasted weeks that could have been used in lifesaving preparations. His long holiday of denial hurt the country badly.

But the United States is now on the verge of events that will demonstrate the need for empathetic leadership. So far, many of the sacrifices imposed by the coronavirus crisis have been theoretical (except in the most dramatically affected areas).

But even under the best-case scenarios, we are entering weeks of mounting fatalities. Before it all ends, many Americans will know someone who dies or faces severe illness. At the same time we will start counting and feeling the costs of an economy in suspended animation..........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/america-needs-empathetic-leadership-now-more-than-ever/2020/04/02/1f6935f2-750c-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html

 

[Beach Friends]

To be fair to you, I edited my post to include information that was already known to SECNAV when he praised the Captain's actions prior to firing the Captain. So, what changed???

You're asking me? I have no way of knowing. Maybe this is not the sort of thing the military likes to play out in the media and his first instinct was to play politician.

Again, based on what I read in the CNN article my opinion is as stated above. Do you disagree with what I stated.

I am open to your input. Keep in mind I didn't make the decision to relieve the man.

 

[FullMonte]

So you bring up the subject of Russiagate, but you complain that I'm focusing on something unrelated?

I didn't "bring up the subject of Russiagate," I mentioned several comments that Trump has made throughout his term, some of which centered around the Russia investigation.

But, since you think I'm off base....help me understand.

I was responding to your post where you mentioned Trump saying that he hoped we could be open by Easter, and that he shouldn't have said that, and we shouldn't all be acting like he said it would happen. I said that was a standard move for Trump to say he might do something, and then wait to see what the response is. I listed his statement that he might testify (which was about the impeachment, not the Mueller investigation), that he might sit down and interview with Mueller. That he might pardon Mike Flynn, that he might pardon Roger Stone.

Please explain how pointing out that Trump has a habit of saying he might do something, then not doing that because of the public (or his advisors') response to those statements somehow equates to "clinging" to the Mueller investigation. How does what I said, in any way, reflect what you think my belief of the Mueller investigation is?

 

[Heathen]

Pence, in Craziest Lie Yet, Denies Trump Ever Downplayed the Coronavirus

“I don’t believe the president has ever belittled the threat of the coronavirus.” What?

nymag.com

I just have to wonder if people ultimately just don't care that their side lies habitually to their faces because ultimately 'team red' winning is more important.

Yeah, that's actually 100% what it is.

 

[Beach Friends]

e

I just have to wonder if people ultimately just don't care that their side lies habitually to their faces because ultimately 'team red' winning is more important.

Yeah, that's actually 100% what it is.

You do realize that we think just as poorly of the leaders of "your side" right?

 

[Lapaz]

e


You do realize that we think just as poorly of the leaders of "your side" right?

I think you disagree with the democratic policies, but democrats don't have anyone even remotely close to a Trump on the lying scale. Policy disagreements are what we should be discussing, but we can't talk policy when one side only lies about nearly everything. There are some Republicans that will not tow the Trump line, and those are the ones that are not lying. You don't have to lie to defend Republican policies, but you almost have to lie to defend Trump, because he constantly lies, so in order not to lie, if you defend a position, then you have to acknowledge that Trump also took the opposite position, and then lied about taking that position.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

You're asking me? I have no way of knowing. Maybe this is not the sort of thing the military likes to play out in the media and his first instinct was to play politician.

Again, based on what I read in the CNN article my opinion is as stated above. Do you disagree with what I stated.

I am open to your input. Keep in mind I didn't make the decision to relieve the man.

I asked you because you said it "sounds like it had to be done". Moldy decided that he indeed needed to fire the Capt even though 24hrs ago he said they weren't looking to shoot the messenger.

Furthermore, he reasoning for firing him is laughable considering the tone of the actual memo; it was not hysterical, it wasn't littered with disinformation or filled with hyperbole. The memo stated the facts and a course of action needed to remedy the situation.

He said Crozier was not removed because of any evidence suggesting he leaked the memo to the press, but rather for allowing "the complexity of his challenge with the Covid breakout on the ship to overwhelm his ability to act professionally when acting professionally was what was needed the most at the time."

"I have no information nor am I trying to suggest that he leaked the information. It was published in the San Francisco Chronicle. It all came as a big surprise to all of us that it was in the paper, and that's the first time I had seen it," he added.

Interesting.

 

[Heathen]

e


You do realize that we think just as poorly of the leaders of "your side" right?

It's not about "sides", but yes -- I'm aware. Both sides do it. The instance I just mentioned, which involves the VP, is where the focus lies now.

I repeat: Why would anyone support leaders who lie habitually? Does this not trouble one who values pursuing dignity in our rule of law?

Sure, every politician at some point stretches the truth. But some do it astronomically more than others because they know their constituents largely do not care, and it is important that we understand the difference.

We're not going to whisk away issue after issue with 'but your side'. BTW, you won't find a person on this board that is more critical of the Democratic party, if that tells you anything.

 

[not2rich]

It's not about "sides", but yes -- I'm aware. Both sides do it. The instance I just mentioned, which involves the VP, is where the focus lies now.

I repeat: Why would anyone support leaders who lie habitually? Does this not trouble one who values pursuing dignity in our rule of law?

Sure, every politician at some point stretches the truth. But some do it astronomically more than others because they know their constituents largely do not care, and it is important that we understand the difference.

We're not going to whisk away issue after issue with 'but your side'. BTW, you won't find a person on this board that is more critical of the Democratic party, if that tells you anything.

They want right-wing judges. Nothing else really matters. If Democratic voters took the judiciary half as seriously as they do, the GOP wouldn't win another Presidential election.