All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (1 Viewer)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Farb]

Dude. Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but wouldn't Trump just love to round up and imprison Muslims?

I know for a fact that there's a sizable number of his supporters who absolutely would love to rid the USA of Muslims.

Dude, yeah. You reading me wrong but you know that.
I posted about China but of course you can't even see past your hate for Trump and TrUmP sUpPoRtErS.

 

[TaylorB]

I would appreciate it if the Chinese government regulates their markets where wild animal carcasses are traded. If it only helps to prevent one pandemic it will be worth it.

I think it would also be helpful if the Chinese government did not arrest physicians for sharing information about an outbreak of an infectious disease, destroy records about the disease and force physicians to give false confessions about spreading rumors.

Yeah, that would be nice.

I agree.

I'm no scholar on international law, but I tend to think the international community potentially has a role here, to the extent China's practices break from international norms and/or endanger global health. And to the extent the spread of harmful diseases results from practices that do not violate international norms, said norms should be periodically reexamined by the powers that be, and potentially regulated and/or prohibited, within reason of course. China suppressing the spread of helpful information is a no-brainer. The wet market / exotic food part is less clear-cut, but I don't have a problem making it part of the conversation in the future. And I'm very comfortable saying China is culpable for the former, regardless of whatever blame they bear for the latter.

That's a separate discussion from our government's (and particularly, if not exclusively, the Trump administration's) preparation for, and handling of, the current crisis, which has been incompetent. Judging from off-hand conversations I've had with random clients of mine, I worry that some of the harm from the initial misinformation from Trump will only magnify the failure of our preparation. I am glad there now seem to be at least some people involved who are capable of mounting a robust response. And I am glad Congress is passing badly needed legislation to help out all the people who are reeling from this. Unfortunately I think it's only the very beginning of a long road, absent a miracle cure or vaccine.

 

[SaintForLife]

 

[Farb]

It is interesting how fast people flock to socialism when it is their livelihood being threatened. Now insurance companies need to be bailed out so they can bail out others?!?

I am a small business owner and I a really torn on bailing anyone out.

Especially small businesses from those who are completely against socialism in all its forms a week ago.

If you didn’t think ahead enough to require your insurance policy to have a force majeure clause- your fault, not mine.

Let the market decide.

Since you thought ahead unlike the 99% of the rest of us in the country, what did you insurance agent say when you reviewed your business interruption provision this week? Covered under force majeure? I bet not.

 

[coldseat]

I'm no scholar on international law, but I tend to think the international community potentially has a role here, to the extent China's practices break from international norms and/or endanger global health. And to the extent the spread of harmful diseases results from practices that do not violate international norms, said norms should be periodically reexamined by the powers that be, and potentially regulated and/or prohibited, within reason of course. China suppressing the spread of helpful information is a no-brainer. The wet market / exotic food part is less clear-cut, but I don't have a problem making it part of the conversation in the future. And I'm very comfortable saying China is culpable for the former, regardless of whatever blame they bear for the latter.

The irony here is that the way you accomplish that is through diplomacy and by having international/bi-lateral treaties and trade agreements to address global problems. Which is antithetically opposed to Trump's America First ideology of we're going to do what we're going to do and what we see is in our best interest and you do what you do. You can't accomplish this raising of standards and openness of information simply by demeaning foreign cultures, being adversarial in every context and using xenophobia to drive fear and just hoping the country chagnes.

It also helps if we're not hypocrites while calling for that change from other countries.

 

[Farb]

Let me get this straight.

You think China allowing their southern people to eat crazy animals like bats and civets and whatever else they eat should bring down the full weight of the world on their government, right?

Is that correct? If so, what on earth do you think about our government or parts thereof trying to outlaw abortion or seasonal deer hunting or the use of LSD or eating bacon?

Is it your argument that when there's a risk involved to the health and well being of one's self or others that government should step in and outlaw the behavior?

Guns too?

Is this how the pandemic started? Are we sure? Because I clearly stated that it "depends on what we find out to be true'.
The Chinese have lied to the entire world about their latest global pandemic, as per usual so yes, I think the world governments should bring force to bear and severally hurt their economy at the least. If this is proven that it was done intentionally and it got out hand, then yes, bring China back to the stone age and always kick them back down when if they ever try to get back up.

Feel bad for the average Chinese citizen? Encourage them to replace their shirthole government don't ask the world to accept a clear and constant threat from a evil government.

Does LSD, Bacon, Abortion, whatever silly comparison you want to make, compare to a world wide pandemic that will kill lord knows how many people? You are hitching your horse to horrible wagon, but pull away.

 

[coldseat]

Is this how the pandemic started? Are we sure? Because I clearly stated that it "depends on what we find out to be true'.
The Chinese have lied to the entire world about their latest global pandemic, as per usual so yes, I think the world governments should bring force to bear and severally hurt their economy at the least. If this is proven that it was done intentionally and it got out hand, then yes, bring China back to the stone age and always kick them back down when if they ever try to get back up.

To ease your worries, it has been stated rather vehemently by epidemiologist and infectious desease experts that his was not a man made virus. We do know that much. It was a virus that naturally mutated (it is believed to have happened through bats). And while not known for sure, the Wuhan exotic meat market is believed to be the culprit.

International Researchers Conclude COVID-19 is Not Man-Made

“By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes,” said Kristian Andersen, associate professor of immunology and microbiology at Scripps Research.

www.biospace.com

 

[dtc]

Is this how the pandemic started? Are we sure? Because I clearly stated that it "depends on what we find out to be true'.
The Chinese have lied to the entire world about their latest global pandemic, as per usual so yes, I think the world governments should bring force to bear and severally hurt their economy at the least. If this is proven that it was done intentionally and it got out hand, then yes, bring China back to the stone age and always kick them back down when if they ever try to get back up.

Feel bad for the average Chinese citizen? Encourage them to replace their shirthole government don't ask the world to accept a clear and constant threat from a evil government.

Does LSD, Bacon, Abortion, whatever silly comparison you want to make, compare to a world wide pandemic that will kill lord knows how many people? You are hitching your horse to horrible wagon, but pull away.

You didn't even get it.

Anyway, Trump has lied to us as much if not more than the Chinese government lied to them.

He told us last week it would go away. He told us it was fine and under control. He told us it was a hoax.

His government whacked the one agency that would have been in charge of this and then lied about it while ignoring it so now we have less tests than Korea or Italy. How in the hot hell does the USA have less of anything than S Korea or Italy?

So, back to the analogy. If you're mad at China and feel they should be punished into the stone ages by the world's other nations then what do you think ought to happen to us when our POTUS only finally heeded the reality of the situation on Monday? How do you reconcile the fact that HE made sure we have no tests and, as such, are reporting dirt-level-crap data? You can't even get a test today if you wanted one unless you're Sean Payton so what do we do about that?

As for the LSD and Bacon argument, you're here telling us government shouldn't be telling us what to do right up until it's China telling its southernes not to eat bats. You won't even consider telling our crazy people they can't horde guns, but China should make its people stop shopping in open air markets as they've done for 5000 years.

 

[dtc]

Dude, yeah. You reading me wrong but you know that.
I posted about China but of course you can't even see past your hate for Trump and TrUmP sUpPoRtErS.

Again, you don't even get it. Yes, I hate Trump. I am disgusted by those who support his racist policies, but I'm also smart enough to know that many of them support anything it takes to rid the country of Muslims. I read it every day on my FB feed. Deny or defend it at your liesure, but it's sure as heck true like the day is long.

 

[CoolBrees]

Of course it’s covered. I am in contract manufacturing and in a earth quake zone, I have to get parts from all over the world. Government and civil upheaval as well as global pandemic are a part of my (expensive) clause

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Is this how the pandemic started? Are we sure? Because I clearly stated that it "depends on what we find out to be true'.
The Chinese have lied to the entire world about their latest global pandemic, as per usual so yes, I think the world governments should bring force to bear and severally hurt their economy at the least. If this is proven that it was done intentionally and it got out hand, then yes, bring China back to the stone age and always kick them back down when if they ever try to get back up.

Feel bad for the average Chinese citizen? Encourage them to replace their shirthole government don't ask the world to accept a clear and constant threat from a evil government.

Does LSD, Bacon, Abortion, whatever silly comparison you want to make, compare to a world wide pandemic that will kill lord knows how many people? You are hitching your horse to horrible wagon, but pull away.

Were you alive for Tiananmen square?

 

[CoolBrees]

Let’s put a pin in this until afterwords, because right now is not the time for hearings, but this will need to be addressed under oath in my opinion.

This is the worst part-

“Those public declarations of confidence were featured in a separate ProPublica report on Thursday indicating that Burr — who has access to regular intelligence briefings — sold between $580,000 and $1.6 million in stock in the weeks before the market began to collapse under the strain of coronavirus.”


The guy is on tv saying all is great, while knowing to the contrary so he can unload stock before the bottom drops.

Your Senate Intelligence Ranking member ladies and gentlemen!

Recording shows Senate intel chair warned of coronavirus disruption in private weeks ahead of time

Richard Burr made his remarks at a private luncheon late last month.

www.politico.com

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Let’s put a pin in this until afterwords, because right now is not the time for hearings, but this will need to be addressed under oath in my opinion.

This is the worst part-

“Those public declarations of confidence were featured in a separate ProPublica report on Thursday indicating that Burr — who has access to regular intelligence briefings — sold between $580,000 and $1.6 million in stock in the weeks before the market began to collapse under the strain of coronavirus.”


The guy is on tv saying all is great, while knowing to the contrary so he can unload stock before the bottom drops.

Your Senate Intelligence Ranking member ladies and gentlemen!

Recording shows Senate intel chair warned of coronavirus disruption in private weeks ahead of time

Richard Burr made his remarks at a private luncheon late last month.

www.politico.com

yeah, he also dumped his stock even after publicly stating that everything was peachy - stocks tanked next day

 

[Dadsdream]

Most likely, yes. And the argument about needing to know people's immigration status, or (somehow) have no illegal immigrants, to manage an epidemic is false anyway. That would only apply if you had an authoritarian surveillance state that knew where every legal citizen was to start off with. Since that's not the case - and I assume no-one is calling for one? - it's already a situation where people need to be identified first regardless of status.

And ironically, making their citizenship an issue harms the ability to fight an epidemic. If it's not an issue, then those with worries about their status, or the status of those close to them, have no reason not to cooperate with measures necessary to fight the epidemic.

Have we run out of dead cats for the table yet?

Well, RobF,

I say let's not kid ourselves, the U.S. Public Health Emergency Laws can instantly turn the U.S. or any portion of it into a totalitarian state, if the situation warrants it and if all the laws are enacted to their fullest extent.

Suffice it to say, let's hope it doesn't come to that. But, let's not pretend that it can't or won't happen.

https://www.phe.gov/Preparedness/legal/Pages/phe-qa.aspx

 

[dtc]

Let’s put a pin in this until afterwords, because right now is not the time for hearings, but this will need to be addressed under oath in my opinion.

This is the worst part-

“Those public declarations of confidence were featured in a separate ProPublica report on Thursday indicating that Burr — who has access to regular intelligence briefings — sold between $580,000 and $1.6 million in stock in the weeks before the market began to collapse under the strain of coronavirus.”


The guy is on tv saying all is great, while knowing to the contrary so he can unload stock before the bottom drops.

Your Senate Intelligence Ranking member ladies and gentlemen!

Recording shows Senate intel chair warned of coronavirus disruption in private weeks ahead of time

Richard Burr made his remarks at a private luncheon late last month.

www.politico.com

This is the sort of thing that should lead to a public outcry. But the Republican voter's response will be silence except those who defend him as having made a good and ethical decision.

 

[dtc]

Well, RobF,

I say let's not kid ourselves, the U.S. Public Health Emergency Laws can instantly turn the U.S. or any portion of it into a totalitarian state, if the situation warrants it and if all the laws are enacted to their fullest extent.

Suffice it to say, let's hope it doesn't come to that. But, let's not pretend that it can't or won't happen.

https://www.phe.gov/Preparedness/legal/Pages/phe-qa.aspx

Can you cite the section that allows the Secretary to turn us into a totalitarian state in the link you provided?

 

[Dadsdream]

Can you cite the section that allows the Secretary to turn us into a totalitarian state in the link you provided?

All of them.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

sound and fury