All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (5 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[SaintForLife]

SFL, are you capable of actually reading the letter? Fauci says clearly that he wants to convene a larger group of scientists to study the genetics of the virus and get the answer clearly. He continued to push for an answer to the question. He’s not covering up anything.

Also, Fauci doesn’t say the US was doing gain of function, he says that Chinese scientists were doing gain of function. This subject is too complicated for a simple answer. You should read this and get back to me.

The tweet I posted didn't say anything about the US doing gain of function research in Wuhan. You know that, but you purposely throw out a strawman to avoid the actual issue at hand.

Fauci previously denied in testimony to congress that the US wasn't funding any gain of function research in Wuhan. It turns out we were and that email shows Fauci referencing what he claimed wasn't happening in Wuhan.

NIH Documents Provide New Evidence U.S. Funded Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan

The National Institutes of Health-funded experiment in Wuhan, China, posed biosafety risks but did not cause the Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say.

theintercept.com

The Wuhan Lab and the Gain-of-Function Disagreement - FactCheck.org

A disagreement between Republican Sen. Rand Paul and Dr. Anthony Fauci has put $600,000 of U.S. grant money to the Wuhan Institute of Virology back into the spotlight, while making "gain-of-function" research a household term -- all amid calls for more investigation into the origins of SARS-CoV-2.

www.factcheck.org

The irresponsible smear of Fauci is one of the true travesties of this whole sordid propaganda effort. It makes my blood boil. Fauci is a great scientist and a good man. The lies and smears are just flat out evil. Don’t be a part of that, it should be beneath you.

After all is said and done, lab leak remains the least likely origin of the virus. Read the piece I linked, so you can quit embarrassing yourself by quoting hacks.

Why are you posting articles from May, when we have emails revealed this week that showed the authors of the Proximal Orgin paper said privately that the lab leak was the most likely origin of COVID? Have you seen anything from those hearings or are you purposely keeping your head in the sand?

Yall are batting 0 for 4 on the biggest stories of the last couple years. Trump Russia collusion/lab leak, Hunter's Laptop is Russian disinformation, and the government isn't pressuring social media companies to censor.

 

[brandon]

Between the Lab leak is a conspiracy theory, Trump colluded with Russia to affect the election, Hunter's laptop was Russian disinformation, the government isn't pressuring social media companies to censor citizens speech online, you guys have been proven wrong again and again on the biggest stories of the last few years.

You literally didn't read any of these emails/letters, or you didn't understand them.

They're not remotely saying what you and your twitter hacks think they are.

 

[coldseat]

The tweet I posted didn't say anything about the US doing gain of function research in Wuhan. You know that, but you purposely throw out a strawman to avoid the actual issue at hand.

Fauci previously denied in testimony to congress that the US wasn't funding any gain of function research in Wuhan. It turns out we were and that email shows Fauci referencing what he claimed wasn't happening in Wuhan.

NIH Documents Provide New Evidence U.S. Funded Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan

The National Institutes of Health-funded experiment in Wuhan, China, posed biosafety risks but did not cause the Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say.

theintercept.com

In the email, Fauci mentions gain-of-function research at Wuhan, but he doesn't say anything about the US funding it. That's the right wing spin. Do you not think that China wouldn't fund gain-of-function research at their own lab?

Moreover, the email proves that Fauci was seeking a true consensus among scientist and wasn't protecting anybody. The right wings and your whole premise of Fauci's intentions completely falls apart with this email, but you're so far in the depths of your conspiracy that you can't see the light of day.

 

[SaintForLife]

In the email, Fauci mentions gain-of-function research at Wuhan, but he doesn't say anything about the US funding it. That's the right wing spin. Do you not think that China wouldn't fund gain-of-function research at their own lab?

Right wing spin huh? I literally posted this in the tweet you responded to:

NIH Documents Provide New Evidence U.S. Funded Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan

The National Institutes of Health-funded experiment in Wuhan, China, posed biosafety risks but did not cause the Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say.

theintercept.com

Moreover, the email proves that Fauci was seeking a true consensus among scientist and wasn't protecting anybody. The right wings and your whole premise of Fauci's intentions completely falls apart with this email, but you're so far in the depths of your conspiracy that you can't see the light of day.

It's as simple as Fauci testifying to Congress that the US hadn't funded gain of function research in Wuhan. We now know that he lied.

The experiment also raises questions about assertions from Fauci and NIH Director Francis Collins that NIH-funded projects at the Wuhan Institute of Virology did not involve gain-of-function research. In May, Fauci testified before Congress: “The NIH has not ever and does not now fund gain-of-function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology.” The documents do not establish whether Fauci was directly aware of the work.

Scientists working under a 2014 NIH grant to the EcoHealth Alliance to study bat coronaviruses combined the genetic material from a “parent” coronavirus known as WIV1 with other viruses. They twice submitted summaries of their work that showed that, when in the lungs of genetically engineered mice, three altered bat coronaviruses at times reproduced far more quickly than the original virus on which they were based. The altered viruses were also somewhat more pathogenic, with one causing the mice to lose significant weight. The researchers reported, “These results demonstrate varying pathogenicity of SARSr-CoVs with different spike proteins in humanized mice.”

But the terms of the grant clearly stipulated that the funding could not be used for gain-of-function experiments. The grant conditions also required the researchers to immediately report potentially dangerous results and stop their experiments pending further NIH review. According to both the EcoHealth Alliance and NIH, the results were reported to the agency, but NIH determined that rules designed to restrict gain-of-function research did not apply.

 

[coldseat]

Right wing spin huh? I literally posted this in the tweet you responded to:

NIH Documents Provide New Evidence U.S. Funded Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan

The National Institutes of Health-funded experiment in Wuhan, China, posed biosafety risks but did not cause the Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say.

theintercept.com

It's as simple as Fauci testifying to Congress that the US hadn't funded gain of function research in Wuhan. We now know that he lied.

The experiment also raises questions about assertions from Fauci and NIH Director Francis Collins that NIH-funded projects at the Wuhan Institute of Virology did not involve gain-of-function research. In May, Fauci testified before Congress: “The NIH has not ever and does not now fund gain-of-function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology.” The documents do not establish whether Fauci was directly aware of the work.

Scientists working under a 2014 NIH grant to the EcoHealth Alliance to study bat coronaviruses combined the genetic material from a “parent” coronavirus known as WIV1 with other viruses. They twice submitted summaries of their work that showed that, when in the lungs of genetically engineered mice, three altered bat coronaviruses at times reproduced far more quickly than the original virus on which they were based. The altered viruses were also somewhat more pathogenic, with one causing the mice to lose significant weight. The researchers reported, “These results demonstrate varying pathogenicity of SARSr-CoVs with different spike proteins in humanized mice.”

But the terms of the grant clearly stipulated that the funding could not be used for gain-of-function experiments. The grant conditions also required the researchers to immediately report potentially dangerous results and stop their experiments pending further NIH review. According to both the EcoHealth Alliance and NIH, the results were reported to the agency, but NIH determined that rules designed to restrict gain-of-function research did not apply.

How could Fauci have lied if he wasn't aware of the work.

Also, did it even matter? Also from the article that you posted...

Scientists unanimously told The Intercept that the experiment, which involved infecting genetically engineered mice with “chimeric” hybrid viruses, could not have directly sparked the pandemic. None of the viruses listed in the write-ups of the experiment are related to the virus that causes Covid-19, SARS-CoV-2, closely enough to have evolved into it. Still, several scientists said the new information, which the NIH released after it was sued by The Intercept, points to biosafety concerns, highlighting a general lack of oversight for research on pathogens and raising questions about what other information has not been publicly disclosed.

So you whole complaint about Fauci adds up to "HE LIED", even though Facui may not have been aware of the work in the first place and the work that was done didn't contribute to Sars-Cov-2. What a grand conspiracy.

 

[SaintForLife]

How could Fauci have lied if he wasn't aware of the work.

The article said the documents don't establish that Fauci was aware of the work. That's quite different that saying he wasn't aware of the work. The email I posted earlier showed Fauci referencing the gain of function research in Wuhan that he previously denied that the US was funding.

Also, did it even matter? Also from the article that you posted...

Oh scientists said it. That ends any debate right?...unless it was scientists like this:

So you whole complaint about Fauci adds up to "HE LIED", even though Facui may not have been aware of the work in the first place and the work that was done didn't contribute to Sars-Cov-2. What a grand conspiracy.

Do you honestly believe that the former director of NIAID wasn't aware of who they were funding?

 

[coldseat]

Do you honestly believe that the former director of NIAID wasn't aware of who they were funding?

Yes, it's the most logical explanation. It's easily conceivable that the Fauci wasn't aware of the low level funding to EcoHealth. If he was aware of it, it entirely conceivable that he believed that it didn't fund gain-of-function research since the grant explicitly prohibited it.

That's a much more logically consistent belief than the deep conspiracy you're trying to spin.

You really don't need to post all of those twitter post and videos when responding to me. I'm not interested in spending the time to go through them. I just ignore them.

 

[Booker]

The article said the documents don't establish that Fauci was aware of the work. That's quite different that saying he wasn't aware of the work. The email I posted earlier showed Fauci referencing the gain of function research in Wuhan that he previously denied that the US was funding.

Interesting perspective. Would that be kind of like saying that, though the Mueller investigation "did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government" that it's quite different than saying that collusion didn't take place? Especially in light of the preceding sentence which stated that "the investigation established multiple links between Trump Campaign officials and individuals tied to the Russian government. Those links included Russian offers of assistance to the Campaign. In some instances, the Campaign was receptive to the offer..."?

 

[SaintForLife]

Interesting perspective. Would that be kind of like saying that, though the Mueller investigation "did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government" that it's quite different than saying that collusion didn't take place? Especially in light of the preceding sentence which stated that "the investigation established multiple links between Trump Campaign officials and individuals tied to the Russian government. Those links included Russian offers of assistance to the Campaign. In some instances, the Campaign was receptive to the offer..."?

Swing and a miss... That article was written specifically about the US funding gain of research in Wuhan. That's not proof he knew about the funding and I haven't seen anyone claim it does.

But the current House investigation shows Fauci knew about it.



The rest of his tweets in that thread:

NIAID worked with EcoHealth to..sidestep the gain-of-function research moratorium..This..allowed EcoHealth to conduct and complete dangerous experiments..that would have otherwise been blocked by the moratorium"

EcoHealth..was required to submit its fifth annual progress report by September 30, 2019 and had yet to do..so by January 31, 2020..EcoHealth hid this..progress report to..hide a gain-of-function experiment conducted on..infectious and lethal novel coronavirus"

The WIV was operating with undertrained technicians and at a substandard biosafety level.."

Viral gain-of-function research is inherently dangerous."

"On January 31, 2020, Dr. Fauci 'suggested'..to draft a paper regarding a possible lab leak..The next day, February 1, this time on a conference call with..international scientists..and..Dr. Collins.., Fauci again suggested drafting a paper..A draft..was completed within hours."

"The stated goal of Proximal Origin—the paper suggested and prompted by Dr. Fauci— was to 'disprove' the lab leak theory."

"Proximal Origin employed fatally flawed science to achieve its goal."

"Dr. Fauci and Dr. Collins were intimately involved in the day-to-day creation of Proximal Origin"

"[T]he authors were so comfortable with their involvement they coined the term 'Bethesda Boys' to describe the nation’s leading health officials."

"Dr. Collins and Dr. Fauci used Proximal Origin to attempt to kill the lab leak theory. This is the anatomy of a cover-up."

 

[SaintForLife]

Yes, it's the most logical explanation. It's easily conceivable that the Fauci wasn't aware of the low level funding to EcoHealth. If he was aware of it, it entirely conceivable that he believed that it didn't fund gain-of-function research since the grant explicitly prohibited it.

That's a much more logically consistent belief than the deep conspiracy you're trying to spin.

You really don't need to post all of those twitter post and videos when responding to me. I'm not interested in spending the time to go through them. I just ignore them.

It's easier to just ignore the evidence that contradicts your views right?

 

[Booker]

Swing and a miss... That article was written specifically about the US funding gain of research in Wuhan. That's not proof he knew about the funding and I haven't seen anyone claim it does.

But the current House investigation shows Fauci knew about it.



The rest of his tweets in that thread:

NIAID worked with EcoHealth to..sidestep the gain-of-function research moratorium..This..allowed EcoHealth to conduct and complete dangerous experiments..that would have otherwise been blocked by the moratorium"

EcoHealth..was required to submit its fifth annual progress report by September 30, 2019 and had yet to do..so by January 31, 2020..EcoHealth hid this..progress report to..hide a gain-of-function experiment conducted on..infectious and lethal novel coronavirus"

The WIV was operating with undertrained technicians and at a substandard biosafety level.."

Viral gain-of-function research is inherently dangerous."

"On January 31, 2020, Dr. Fauci 'suggested'..to draft a paper regarding a possible lab leak..The next day, February 1, this time on a conference call with..international scientists..and..Dr. Collins.., Fauci again suggested drafting a paper..A draft..was completed within hours."

"The stated goal of Proximal Origin—the paper suggested and prompted by Dr. Fauci— was to 'disprove' the lab leak theory."

"Proximal Origin employed fatally flawed science to achieve its goal."

"Dr. Fauci and Dr. Collins were intimately involved in the day-to-day creation of Proximal Origin"

"[T]he authors were so comfortable with their involvement they coined the term 'Bethesda Boys' to describe the nation’s leading health officials."

"Dr. Collins and Dr. Fauci used Proximal Origin to attempt to kill the lab leak theory. This is the anatomy of a cover-up."

I think the leap conspiracy theorists make is insisting there were sinister motives behind decision making as opposed to people doing their best to save lives while facing an unprecedented situation. Hindsight is 20/20, and I'm sure there are things they might have done differently with the knowledge we now have.

In regard to the lab leak theory, it's not out of the question and I've read things that support that possibility. But I think there is a difference between the idea of an accidental leak, which I do think is possible, and an intentional leak, which I don't think is likely at all, yet some people were trying to advance that idea at a time when the emphasis needed to be on mitigation, not on finger pointing.

 

[coldseat]

It's easier to just ignore the evidence that contradicts your views right?

No, I actually read those. But it's easy to ignore your twitter sources. I don't just believe people because they post some out of context diatribe on twitter.

 

[MT15]

Right wing spin huh? I literally posted this in the tweet you responded to:

NIH Documents Provide New Evidence U.S. Funded Gain-of-Function Research in Wuhan

The National Institutes of Health-funded experiment in Wuhan, China, posed biosafety risks but did not cause the Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say.

theintercept.com

It's as simple as Fauci testifying to Congress that the US hadn't funded gain of function research in Wuhan. We now know that he lied.

The experiment also raises questions about assertions from Fauci and NIH Director Francis Collins that NIH-funded projects at the Wuhan Institute of Virology did not involve gain-of-function research. In May, Fauci testified before Congress: “The NIH has not ever and does not now fund gain-of-function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology.” The documents do not establish whether Fauci was directly aware of the work.

Scientists working under a 2014 NIH grant to the EcoHealth Alliance to study bat coronaviruses combined the genetic material from a “parent” coronavirus known as WIV1 with other viruses. They twice submitted summaries of their work that showed that, when in the lungs of genetically engineered mice, three altered bat coronaviruses at times reproduced far more quickly than the original virus on which they were based. The altered viruses were also somewhat more pathogenic, with one causing the mice to lose significant weight. The researchers reported, “These results demonstrate varying pathogenicity of SARSr-CoVs with different spike proteins in humanized mice.”

But the terms of the grant clearly stipulated that the funding could not be used for gain-of-function experiments. The grant conditions also required the researchers to immediately report potentially dangerous results and stop their experiments pending further NIH review. According to both the EcoHealth Alliance and NIH, the results were reported to the agency, but NIH determined that rules designed to restrict gain-of-function research did not apply.

You say Fauci lied, then you post the above bolded sentence that says they don’t know if he was aware at the time of the research some people are calling gain of function. Come on, this is just bush league.

Did you read the fact check check I posted? It talks about the fact that gain of function is an overly broad term and there are genuine disagreements among scientists as to what actually constitutes gain of function research. When I say this is a complicated issue, I say it because it is true.

It‘s pathological to believe that Fauci and other scientists, who have given their entire professional lives to doing the work to protect us from communicable disease, are suddenly evil people who are ”lying” about everything. You can only get to this conclusion through either ignorance or malevolence.

Which are you, SFL?

 

[MT15]

It's easier to just ignore the evidence that contradicts your views right?

If this isn’t the pot calling the kettle, I don’t know what it.

 

[MT15]

The article said the documents don't establish that Fauci was aware of the work. That's quite different that saying he wasn't aware of the work. The email I posted earlier showed Fauci referencing the gain of function research in Wuhan that he previously denied that the US was funding.


Oh scientists said it. That ends any debate right?...unless it was scientists like this:





Do you honestly believe that the former director of NIAID wasn't aware of who they were funding?

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, FAUCI REFERENCED GAIN OF FUNCTION BEING DONE BY CHINESE SCIENTISTS. HE NEVER SAID IT WAS FUNDED BY THE US. CHINA DOES THEIR OWN RESEARCH.

You are ridiculous.

 

[MT15]

I think the leap conspiracy theorists make is insisting there were sinister motives behind decision making as opposed to people doing their best to save lives while facing an unprecedented situation. Hindsight is 20/20, and I'm sure there are things they might have done differently with the knowledge we now have.

In regard to the lab leak theory, it's not out of the question and I've read things that support that possibility. But I think there is a difference between the idea of an accidental leak, which I do think is possible, and an intentional leak, which I don't think is likely at all, yet some people were trying to advance that idea at a time when the emphasis needed to be on mitigation, not on finger pointing.

See, a totally reasonable post. Anyone can have a conversation about this subject with this type of post.

 

[SaintForLife]

I think the leap conspiracy theorists make is insisting there were sinister motives behind decision making as opposed to people doing their best to save lives while facing an unprecedented situation. Hindsight is 20/20, and I'm sure there are things they might have done differently with the knowledge we now have.

In regard to the lab leak theory, it's not out of the question and I've read things that support that possibility. But I think there is a difference between the idea of an accidental leak, which I do think is possible, and an intentional leak, which I don't think is likely at all, yet some people were trying to advance that idea at a time when the emphasis needed to be on mitigation, not on finger pointing.

You don't think there anything sinister about Fauci, Anderson and others trying to hide the fact that the US was providing funding to the Wuhan lab? What about the scientists who wrote the Proximal Orgins paper that claimed it was natural in orgin while saying privately that the lab leak was likely?

 

[Booker]

You don't think there anything sinister about Fauci, Anderson and others trying to hide the fact that the US was providing funding to the Wuhan lab? What about the scientists who wrote the Proximal Orgins paper that claimed it was natural in orgin while saying privately that the lab leak was likely?

No, I don’t see them as acting in a sinister manner at all, they were trying to save lives. The focus was on mitigating the spread and at that point there was no benefit to blaming and ostracizing China.