All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (1 Viewer)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Farb]

Look up Long Covid.

It's like you want everything to taste like salt forever, just to pwn the libs.

I have had Covid 2x (OG and Delta) and I never lost taste at all and I lets be honest, the libs tend to own themselves if left to their own delusional thoughts.

But, that doesn't explain what is better, natural or vax and what happens when you have both? Do you have super immunity or does one override the other? It has been proven that natural and vax immunity have a different response to the virus and the time frame is different as well.

 

[Farb]

why do you believe an organization with a known record of just making stuff up? Or twisting the truth in order to push their own agenda? Your default position on stories from these sources should be skepticism just due to their track record.

I am fairly sure these things didn’t happen exactly the way they were presented by your shirtty websites. Did you read my example of the faux outrage on the left about the school board in WI? That one I read on Twitter, because I try to stay away from websites that are just trash. When I read someone on Twitter pushing this type of crap, I block them, don’t have time to read stuff just made up to create faux outrage.

Most people are reasonable and not radical extremists. Divorces that are “messy” often make people act a little crazy. There is probably much more to these stories that is being purposefully left out.

Ok, you don't like that website that I pulled.
But you have yet to show me how those articles are incorrect or sensationalized. Please, show me the articles are wrong or slightly wrong.

Some people hate cops, but if a cop told you a bridge was out on the road you were on, you wouldn't drive over it because it was a cop that told you, no, you would turn around, correct the course.

 

[Farb]

I would love to see John Bel Edwards win the Democratic nomination for President (obviously would never happen in a million years) to see the GOP denounce him as a radical woke liberal.

That is what they do. The GOP screams 'commie' and 'marxist' all they while passing small tax cuts as a sign of victory and the DNC screams 'white supremacy', racist, and homophobic. Birds of a feather.

 

[Farb]

Speaking of people taking ivermectin. I will never understand why people listen to this man about anything.

They left out a lot of the other meds he took, his decision on why he took them and also information on the drugs makes it seems that it is only for animals when infact is FDA approved for people, and RXed by doctors. Now if you are making a case against off label use of medications, then maybe you have a point.

Seems kind of sensationalized, no? Is this a source you trust?

 

[RobF]

I have had Covid 2x (OG and Delta) and I never lost taste at all and I lets be honest, the libs tend to own themselves if left to their own delusional thoughts.

But, that doesn't explain what is better, natural or vax and what happens when you have both? Do you have super immunity or does one override the other? It has been proven that natural and vax immunity have a different response to the virus and the time frame is different as well.

I'll have to try and dig out the reference (can't find it off hand and it's tea time here), but I've seen it put forward that the advantage of the vaccine over antibodies from infection is that the vaccine response is a lot more consistent, where the response to a natural infection can be much more variable.

This isn't the source I saw, but it's quite informative and touches on it: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/joim.13372

Relevant quote (emphasis added)

Protective immunity after SARS-CoV-2 infection is generally good, and the risk to be re-infected is low although not non-existent. The extent to which protective immune responses last depends upon the time that has elapsed since the infection and how robust the peak Ab responses were. Other factors such as health status, age, and whether the re-exposure is with a VoC to which the pre-existing Abs may be less effective also plays a role. Ab responses to vaccination in individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 are potent, at the same or higher level than those achieved with two vaccine doses.​

 

[Taurus]

I have had Covid 2x (OG and Delta) and I never lost taste at all and I lets be honest, the libs tend to own themselves if left to their own delusional thoughts.

But, that doesn't explain what is better, natural or vax and what happens when you have both? Do you have super immunity or does one override the other? It has been proven that natural and vax immunity have a different response to the virus and the time frame is different as well.

You should buy some lottery tickets.

As Vaccines Do Their Work, Focus Moves to Long Covid

Many of those most at risk of developing long-term symptoms of Covid-19 are younger unvaccinated people who are unprotected against the rapidly spreading Delta variant.

www.wsj.com

As Vaccines Do Their Work, Focus Moves to Long Covid​

Array of long-term symptoms afflict as much as 30% of infected people​

​

 

[Farb]

You should buy some lottery tickets.

As Vaccines Do Their Work, Focus Moves to Long Covid

Many of those most at risk of developing long-term symptoms of Covid-19 are younger unvaccinated people who are unprotected against the rapidly spreading Delta variant.

www.wsj.com

​

Why? I am sure the VAST majority of people getting covid are and will be just fine, vax or not. I am curious on the numbers for that. I wonder if that is a readily accessible number. The number of people that tested positive with covid that had mild to no symptoms vs those that had severe or long covid? It seems like during a pandemic that would be readily available unless it is not and that might tell us something.

 

[Farb]

I'll have to try and dig out the reference (can't find it off hand and it's tea time here), but I've seen it put forward that the advantage of the vaccine over antibodies from infection is that the vaccine response is a lot more consistent, where the response to a natural infection can be much more variable.

This isn't the source I saw, but it's quite informative and touches on it: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/joim.13372

Relevant quote (emphasis added)

Protective immunity after SARS-CoV-2 infection is generally good, and the risk to be re-infected is low although not non-existent. The extent to which protective immune responses last depends upon the time that has elapsed since the infection and how robust the peak Ab responses were. Other factors such as health status, age, and whether the re-exposure is with a VoC to which the pre-existing Abs may be less effective also plays a role. Ab responses to vaccination in individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 are potent, at the same or higher level than those achieved with two vaccine doses.​

I would like to see those, I have seen studies that go both ways. The most recent out of Isreal shows that natural is more robust and longer lasting than vax immunity.

Again, that being said, if you didnt have the virus in the wild you should seriously consider getting the jab but if you did, you are probably fine not to get it.

 

[RobF]

I would like to see those, I have seen studies that go both ways. The most recent out of Isreal shows that natural is more robust and longer lasting than vax immunity.

The (preprint) study I think you're referencing (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1) indicates that, but it does so with slightly questionable methodology: it matches equal numbers of fully vaccinated, previously infected, and previously infected and single dose vaccinated, people, but as the first group is by far the largest (673,676 compared to 62,883 and 42,099 respectively), the subsequent matching (of just 16,215 people in model 1 for example) skews the sample demographically. For example, only 4.9% in the selection for model 1 were over 60, which is substantially lower than for the population of Israel as a whole. Additionally the conclusions drawn are based on relatively low numbers of positives, which are drawn from voluntary testing, not testing as part of the study, which risks missing asymptomatic cases entirely and introduces the risk of the different groups presenting for testing differently, which could skew the results entirely. I suspect as a preprint it'll have more than a few changes following peer review.

So as it is, I'd say that study is more of an, "OK, interesting indications, but not really solid given that methodology, let's see whether further studies bear it out," rather than a, "Yes, I will now base my decisions on this."

It also doesn't address consistency and variability of vaccine immunity versus natural immunity at all, since it's just a retrospective data study.

Again, that being said, if you didnt have the virus in the wild you should seriously consider getting the jab but if you did, you are probably fine not to get it.

But in as much as you might base decisions on it, it also found evidence of waning natural immunity, and that "Notably, individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant," so I'd say no, it suggests you should probably get one dose at some point, rather than none.

 

[Farb]

Yes, that is the preprint study I was referring too. Thanks.

I can see natural immunity waning because the vax immunity wans. I have also seen where antibodies from the Spanish (is that term now bad?) flu were still present in elderly survivors of that pandemic.

 

[zztop]

If anyone wants a dose of insanity:



a few comments from people in the video:

the reason why there are so many people in hospitals is because of masks.
wearing masks robs children of their education .

 

[MT15]

They left out a lot of the other meds he took, his decision on why he took them and also information on the drugs makes it seems that it is only for animals when infact is FDA approved for people, and RXed by doctors. Now if you are making a case against off label use of medications, then maybe you have a point.

Seems kind of sensationalized, no? Is this a source you trust?

Not sensational at all, the article does mention he said he “threw the sink at it”. It‘s just a bit weird that people will be fine with using unproven off-label drugs for Covid, but won‘t take a vaccine that is safe and proven to work. Ivermectin has been studied against Covid, and hasn’t proven to be of benefit. Similar to hydroxychloroquin. But people watching YouTube videos think they know more than doctors. It’s just weird and silly.

 

[MT15]

I have had Covid 2x (OG and Delta) and I never lost taste at all and I lets be honest, the libs tend to own themselves if left to their own delusional thoughts.

But, that doesn't explain what is better, natural or vax and what happens when you have both? Do you have super immunity or does one override the other? It has been proven that natural and vax immunity have a different response to the virus and the time frame is different as well.

You were very lucky you didn’t lose your sense of taste and smell. My son did and it still isn’t back to normal a year later. Some things just still taste weird or he doesn’t taste them. Some things are okay, but he says the taste is “muted” is the best way to describe it.

Oh, and you caught both versions? Hmmm, your natural immunity didn’t protect you from Delta? Most people who are vaccinated have been protected from Delta so far.

 

[Taurus]

Why? I am sure the VAST majority of people getting covid are and will be just fine, vax or not. I am curious on the numbers for that. I wonder if that is a readily accessible number. The number of people that tested positive with covid that had mild to no symptoms vs those that had severe or long covid? It seems like during a pandemic that would be readily available unless it is not and that might tell us something.

The problem with tracking Long Covid is that it presents as an array of symptoms.
Everything from anosmia to fatigue to strokes.
But you can do your own Google and/or YouTube research. Find out what "They" aren't telling you.
(I'm serious, the media has done a lousy job of tracking Long Covid and reporting on the prevalence.)

 

[MT15]

Why? I am sure the VAST majority of people getting covid are and will be just fine, vax or not. I am curious on the numbers for that. I wonder if that is a readily accessible number. The number of people that tested positive with covid that had mild to no symptoms vs those that had severe or long covid? It seems like during a pandemic that would be readily available unless it is not and that might tell us something.

The risk of severe disease varies exponentially with age. It also varies with some common conditions, even if well controlled, like diabetes and high blood pressure. There are also just certain people who will experience a deadly “cytokine storm” during their infection, it is believed this is a genetic predisposition. This may be why we see people who are healthy, and in the twenties, thirties and forties dying. Covid could actually be described as a blood vessel disease. It has a lot of thrombosis and heart complications as well as severely affecting the lungs.

They are tracking the risk of death, but as I said, it varies so much by age and other factors that you really cannot put out a firm number that will apply to everyone. And that genetic predisposition to the cytokine response is unpredictable, it’s not a gene that would be known to the person in advance.

 

[superchuck500]

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[Farb]

You were very lucky you didn’t lose your sense of taste and smell. My son did and it still isn’t back to normal a year later. Some things just still taste weird or he doesn’t taste them. Some things are okay, but he says the taste is “muted” is the best way to describe it.

Oh, and you caught both versions? Hmmm, your natural immunity didn’t protect you from Delta? Most people who are vaccinated have been protected from Delta so far.

That sounds awful, although on the bright side, it would be really good time to start a diet and lose weight if needed. A friend of mine, she is almost done with her quarantine and she still can't taste or smell. Although now she says she can taste a little sweet in the back of her mouth so she thinks it is improving. One lady she works with hasn't tasted anything besides citrus of all things, for over 8 months. I am a big boy and I like food, so yes, I was beyond lucky!

Aw, thanks for asking, here is my covid journey:
I got the virus on December 2. I felt like I had a head cold for three days. Tested positive on Dec 3rd. No lingering effects that has been detected. I went for my regular check up in February. My doc was pushing the vaccine of course. I declined because I had just recovered from it. Anyway, with the blood work, I had no antibodies anymore. He really pushed the vaccine over the phone. Still no.

Fast forward to mid July. My kid comes down with it from band camp. Tests positive. Due to some health problems of his mother that covid does not like, I keep him at my place for the quarantine. He is fine in 3day (he is vaxed). During this time, there were no precautions made to limit my exposure. One night I felt a little run down (I was drinking for a good part of the day- I was off work because I had to quarantine with him. I went to bed a little early and woke up feeling fine.

Fast forward to mid August. Next time at Dr office, he is pushing the vax and I almost did it right then, but I decided to get blood work first. Turn out I have antibodies all the sudden. So yes, I guess I did get it 2x but due to my natural immunity from my first exposure I didn't even know.