All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (1 Viewer)

superchuck500

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

An explosive new study claims that Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a Wuhan lab, then tried to cover their tracks by reverse-engineering versions of the virus to make it look like it evolved naturally from bats.

The paper's authors, British Professor Angus Dalgleish and Norwegian scientist Dr. Birger Sørensen, wrote that they have had 'prima facie evidence of retro-engineering in China' for a year - but were ignored by academics and major journals.

Dalgleish is a professor of oncology at St George's University, London, and is best known for his breakthrough creating the first working 'HIV vaccine', to treat diagnosed patients and allow them to go off medication for months.

Sørensen, a virologist, is chair of pharmaceutical company, Immunor, which developed a coronavirus vaccine candidate called Biovacc-19. Dalgleish also has share options in the firm.

The shocking allegations in the study include accusations of 'deliberate destruction, concealment or contamination of data' at Chinese labs, and it notes the silencing and disappearance of scientists in the communist country who spoke out.

The journal article, exclusively obtained by DailyMail.com and slated for publication in the coming days, is set to make waves among the scientific community, as the majority of experts have until recently staunchly denied the origins of COVID-19 were anything other than a natural infection leaping from animals to humans.


I think I have heard this before, but it was racist, if I remember correctly.

An unpublished paper, released only to the Daily Mail? I'd wait on some more legitimate confirmation of these theories.
 

superchuck500

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This article is pretty sums much where I am on the origin question. If someone is willing to take any individual piece of research and say "Here, this is the answer!" it says more that person's agenda than it does about the scientific question of the viral origin. Despite some good questions that remain unanswered, the more persuasive side of the actual evidence remains solidly that the virus's origin is natural. But that hasn't been fully confirmed through a traceable genome. And so far, virology-based explanations of a lab origin have been fairly well refuted.

But we don't conclusively know and research must continue. And results must be peer-reviewed considered critically for reliability. Circumstantial evidence, epidemiological evidence, and eyewitness account all have varying value but the virology is always going to be the best evidence. And to the extent the Chinese are hampering that research, the international community needs to exert pressure - not for geopolitical purposes, not for "accountability" (yet, we don't know there's anything to be accountable for), but for the science itself, a core interest of humanity.


 

JRad

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I’d also lean to natural origin, but understand having to research every possibility. I don’t see ever getting real answers from China though, and that‘s always going to leave “lab leak” hanging out there.
 

B4YOU

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I think China is in full cover-up mode. China’s claims that the virus could have come from imported frozen food is ridiculous. China will never identify the true patient zero because it will at best confirm China and it’s wet markets were the origin and at worst confirm Covid was due to a lab mishap. There’s no reason why China couldn’t find a likely patient zero with its monitoring of social networks.
 

JRad

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China’s claims that the virus could have come from imported frozen food is ridiculous
Yea, this is like some weird version of “I know you are but what am I”

Which only continues to fuel the lab leak with them getting defensive over it. “Our internal investigations confirm this was not a lab leak” would probably get just as much doubt, because well China, but at least it’s not some weird “NU—UH!”
 

MT15

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I think, and I haven’t read extensively, that the only thing that’s been pretty much ruled out is a lab-altered virus. IIRC, the virus almost certainly came from an animal source, whether it crossed to humans in the markets or rural areas or whether there was a lab accident. So, to me I really don’t care too much which it was. And we do need to study these viruses. There could be another cross to humans at any time so I disagree with the stupid ban to stop funding this research.
 

Farb

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An unpublished paper, released only to the Daily Mail? I'd wait on some more legitimate confirmation of these theories.
That would be the smartest approach for sure on this as it seems to change every week, but I think this is gaining momentum.
 

superchuck500

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That would be the smartest approach for sure on this as it seems to change every week, but I think this is gaining momentum.

I think when it comes to the virology, there will be a scientific consensus - it won't be as subjective as the epidemiology or history. In this new paper you posted, the authors identify six markers within the viral genome that they argue indicate alteration or some other unnatural source.

If the paper is at all taken seriously (I don't think it's published yet), I suspect there will be analysis and either support or refutation from the virology community. I have been looking out for it but haven't seen anything yet.
 

nolaspe

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I saw GQP twitter go completely bonkers over these emails, it's pretty hilarious actually, talk about a nothing burger. They're up in arms over emails from last Feb-March when everyone was still trying to figure out covid...

Rand Paul's tweets are so juvenile that for a minute there I thought that it was from a parody account...

It's not like these are some redacted/leaked confidential emails, they were obtained under the FOIA by Buzzfeed and WaPo...

 

DaveXA

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I saw GQP twitter go completely bonkers over these emails, it's pretty hilarious actually, talk about a nothing burger. They're up in arms over emails from last Feb-March when everyone was still trying to figure out covid...

Rand Paul's tweets are so juvenile that for a minute there I thought that it was from a parody account...


Paul is bottom of the barrel. Not quite Hawley bad, but he's close.
 

superchuck500

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One of the threads of criticism/attack coming from these emails dovetails into the origin debate. The emails, January 31, 2020, indicate that early genome analysis by virologist Kristian Anderson head of the Scripps Lab in San Diego, who has been a very reliable source of credible information since January 2020, and others that the genome was "inconsistent with evolutionary theory" . . . but then weeks later, in mid-March, published a paper that the origin did appear natural. Because there were communications with Fauci about these topics, the 'story' now is that this was a "cover-up" of a lab leak theory. Keep in mind that the first genome was posted on GenBank on January 10, 2020.




I think I remember when all of that went down, and I think it turned out that the genome they were looking at in late January still hadn't been fully analyzed at a more detailed level, and in the coming weeks they determined that the virus was indeed very close to known bat virus and could be explained evolutionarily.

But here's the thing, this is science - you can't "cover up" the viral genome. Experts around the world are studying it. Anderson is a highly reputable expert and he says the science got better between January and March and that's sensible given how novel/new the virus was.

When you have this kind of scientific evidence, a viral genome that has now been sampled and analyzed many millions of times around the world, the science tells the story - not emails, not conjecture, not conspiracy.
 

Saintamaniac

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I think I remember when all of that went down, and I think it turned out that the genome they were looking at in late January still hadn't been fully analyzed, and in the coming weeks they determined that the virus was indeed very close to known bat virus and could be explained evolutionarily.

But here's the thing, this is science - you can't "cover up" the viral genome. Experts around the world are studying it. Anderson is a highly reputable expert and he says the science got better between January and March and that's sensible given how novel/new the virus was.

When you have this kind of scientific evidence, a viral genome that has now been sampled and analyzed many millions of times around the world, the science tells the story - not emails, not conjecture, not conspiracy.
While your explanation is valid and makes sense to anyone with half a brain, the Fox News/Qanon audience will jump on this like like Matt Gaetz on an underage girl.
 

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