All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (2 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[MT15]

For a perspective on the WSJ story that I found very interesting, read this thread:

 

[MT15]

 

[JRad]

I don't know about anyone else, but seems like when I was a kid, certain vaccines were required for school.

Yes - I recall having to have my records provided to the school. This is nothing new for some institutions.

 

[MT15]

 

[superchuck500]

It’s a good reminder about perspective - and about avoiding conclusions with insufficient evidence.

 

[coldseat]

While I'm sure everything that the guy is saying is valid, this is entirely on China and their secrecy.

The reason people are and have been speculating is because nobody is sure what the facts are. And we'll likely never really know what the facts are. China is not going to disclose any more than it absolutely wants to. It's certainly not going to disclose information in order to satisfy the "need to know" of the international community.

 

[MT15]

It’s a good reminder about perspective - and about avoiding conclusions with insufficient evidence.

He goes on to say that in China people often go to the hospital for mild illness that in the US would only require a doctor’s office visit. So we don’t have any idea whether those three people were severely ill or not.

Basically, he is saying that these facts were all known months ago, and nothing has recently been “revealed”. There’s no new information to alter anything as of now.

He distrusts articles based on anonymous intelligence sources because he believes that there is always as ulterior motive and they are only “leaking” what they want put out there.

 

[zztop]

Yes - I recall having to have my records provided to the school. This is nothing new for some institutions.

right, so these anti-vax people are okay with certain ones, maybe... but not this one in particular. I can only think that (unless there was something in the past that I forgot) that this is one case where the vaccine has been so politicized that a lot-more-than-typical % is strictly opposed, and opposed to doing anything to prevent the spread, and even some governors going out of their way to pass measures to let people potentially contaminate others around them etc

 

[superchuck500]

right, so these anti-vax people are okay with certain ones, maybe... but not this one in particular. I can only think that (unless there was something in the past that I forgot) that this is one case where the vaccine has been so politicized that a lot-more-than-typical % is strictly opposed, and opposed to doing anything to prevent the spread, and even some governors going out of their way to pass measures to let people potentially contaminate others around them etc

I don't think the true anti-vaxers are okay with any of it. But they don't usually get support from lawmakers. So it begs the question of whether they will be able to parlay this into broader anti-vax policy.

 

[superchuck500]

 

[J-DONK]

He goes on to say that in China people often go to the hospital for mild illness that in the US would only require a doctor’s office visit. So we don’t have any idea whether those three people were severely ill or not.

Basically, he is saying that these facts were all known months ago, and nothing has recently been “revealed”. There’s no new information to alter anything as of now.

He distrusts articles based on anonymous intelligence sources because he believes that there is always as ulterior motive and they are only “leaking” what they want put out there.

Employees working at WIV becoming ill in autumn 2019 was officially disclosed by the Trump administration. The motives are obvious, but the Biden administration confirmed those claims. The leak is really only concerning hospitalization, and it was months ago. Maybe also that America believes this to be the first cluster of covid cases? I feel like that was implied back in January though.

I would also add this is the only information for the first cluster of covid cases. It would be very easy for China to disclose the early patient data if U.S. intelligence is wrong.

 

[Dragon]

This could also go into the social media thread

Several European social media influencers, bloggers and YouTubers say a public relations agency with alleged ties to Russia offered them money to claim the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine was dangerous on their social media channels, according to a new report.

The Guardian reports a PR agency called Fazze that claims to be based out of the United Kingdom contacted several French health and science YouTubers last week, and asked them to explain to their followers that “the death rate among the vaccinated with Pfizer is almost 3x higher than the vaccinated by AstraZeneca.”

New report says Russia-linked agency asked influencers to badmouth Pfizer vaccine

European social media influencers were reportedly asked to push a false claim that the Pfizer vaccine is responsible for hundreds of deaths.

thehill.com

A lot of people see China as the main culprit, but what Russia is doing is deliberate attempts to harm the western world and those who live there...

Big thumps up to all those influencers who did not take the money and chose to expose these actions instead!

 

[MT15]

Employees working at WIV becoming ill in autumn 2019 was officially disclosed by the Trump administration. The motives are obvious, but the Biden administration confirmed those claims. The leak is really only concerning hospitalization, and it was months ago. Maybe also that America believes this to be the first cluster of covid cases? I feel like that was implied back in January though.

I would also add this is the only information for the first cluster of covid cases. It would be very easy for China to disclose the early patient data if U.S. intelligence is wrong.

We don’t know those employees had COVID. That’s a suspicion, not a fact. We need to investigate further. China should be forthcoming, and has not been entirely so.

But, as the thread I posted pointed out, there are over 1000 people who work in that lab. The fact that 3 people showed evidence of a flu-like illness during November isn’t unusual. In fact, it’s to be expected. As he also explains, we don’t know the illnesses were severe, because people in China often use the hospital for outpatient services.

The “leak” doesn’t even assert that the illnesses were severe enough to require hospitalization, IIRC. Merely that the people visited the hospital for treatment. Since outpatient visits are common, that really tells us nothing. So it doesn’t really seem that this leak is telling us anything new at all despite the fact that most media are treating it as some sort of new revelation.

 

[Farb]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9619697/Calls-Fauci-resign-flip-flopping-origins-COVID.html

From the 'this is not theater' mask exchange with congress, now to the 'it was all theatre' and now the flip flop on the origin of the virus. It really doesn't matter, he will be replaced with a political bureaucrat of the exact same ilk.

So, when do we get to call this the Wuhan virus/china virus again without it be problematic to the media?

 

[J-DONK]

We don’t know those employees had COVID. That’s a suspicion, not a fact. We need to investigate further. China should be forthcoming, and has not been entirely so.

But, as the thread I posted pointed out, there are over 1000 people who work in that lab. The fact that 3 people showed evidence of a flu-like illness during November isn’t unusual. In fact, it’s to be expected. As he also explains, we don’t know the illnesses were severe, because people in China often use the hospital for outpatient services.

The “leak” doesn’t even assert that the illnesses were severe enough to require hospitalization, IIRC. Merely that the people visited the hospital for treatment. Since outpatient visits are common, that really tells us nothing. So it doesn’t really seem that this leak is telling us anything new at all despite the fact that most media are treating it as some sort of new revelation.

Yes, we agree on this, and what's the ulterior motive from the Biden administration?

That the U.S conduct an investigation?

Mission Accomplished: https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/26/poli...-community-pandemic-origins-report/index.html

 

[J-DONK]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9619697/Calls-Fauci-resign-flip-flopping-origins-COVID.html

From the 'this is not theater' mask exchange with congress, now to the 'it was all theatre' and now the flip flop on the origin of the virus. It really doesn't matter, he will be replaced with a political bureaucrat of the exact same ilk.

So, when do we get to call this the Wuhan virus/china virus again without it be problematic to the media?

I do not understand the hero worship you see on this board, and in liberal media for this guy.

If lab leak is true. Then Fauci, or Francis Collins had to personally sign off on funding the WIV for years. It's a blunder of historic proportions. That's a R.G.E type of mistake. You don't get to be a hero for a pandemic you helped cause, and your career as a public health official is over. His comments about the origin of the virus should have always been viewed with a biased butt area.

P.S. Nanny state level of word restriction. That's not the primary usage of the word.

 

[Dragon]

I do not understand the hero worship you see on this board, and in liberal media for this guy.

If lab leak is true. Then Fauci, or Francis Collins had to personally sign off on funding the WIV for years. It's a blunder of historic proportions. That's a R.G.E type of mistake. You don't get to be a hero for a pandemic you helped cause, and your career as a public health official is over. His comments about the origin of the virus should have always been viewed with a biased butt area.

P.S. Nanny state level of word restriction. That's not the primary usage of the word.

It is all in the wording and that article is based on Fox news

If you write "They received the money to examine HOW the virus spread from bats to humans" then that makes a world of sense because that would be important knowlegde to prevent another Covid version from making that jump

If you write "They received the money to examine HOW the virus CAN spread from bats to humans" then that could include active tampering with the virus

With regards to Fauci he does what every scientist does - follows the data/evidence. If the data/evidence shift or new information is procured, then he will amend or change his stance based precisely on the FACTS currently available. That is what every good scientist does.

 

[superchuck500]

I do not understand the hero worship you see on this board, and in liberal media for this guy.

If lab leak is true. Then Fauci, or Francis Collins had to personally sign off on funding the WIV for years. It's a blunder of historic proportions. That's a R.G.E type of mistake. You don't get to be a hero for a pandemic you helped cause, and your career as a public health official is over. His comments about the origin of the virus should have always been viewed with a biased butt area.

P.S. Nanny state level of word restriction. That's not the primary usage of the word.

I'm not following your comment on the Fauci/Collins signing off on funding of WIV for years. I thought the funding (apparently about $600K in total) arrived to WIV through an NGO grantee, EcoHealth Alliance that was studying bat-originated viruses. The total percentage of the grant funds that went to WIV was less than 20% (total grant funds were $3.7M).

The NIH grant budget is about $25 billion per year - run through the agency's Office of Extramural Research. It's extraordinarily unlikely that a $3.7M grant would ever get to the desks of the NIH director or the NIAID director. But I don't really know what the evidence here is. Why is it that you think Collins or Fauci personally signed off on a $3.7M grant to an NGO that resulted in $600K going to the WIV?