All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (1 Viewer)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Saintamaniac]

With the number of protesters out violating the stay at home orders to help save lives, I wish that hospitals could deny care to anyone that decided to violate the stay at home order. If you go out in violation of the order and contract the disease, you should be forced to treat yourself at home rather than putting the lives of people who already risk their lives and the lives of their families to provide care and treatment to people who got the disease while actually trying to protect themselves from the virus.

 

[gummbo]

Nah, his base has already turned on Fauci, with the help of the commentators on Fox News and other conservative media. There will be no effect on his re-election chances.

We don't live in that America anymore.

I fear that you may be correct, the fact that a couple of weeks ago here in Southern California Huntington Beach had massive crowds not only in protest but also Lali gagging on the beach, once these people start to be infected with the disease I think this is the only thing that will open up their eyes.And once the rest of the country started to read about this specifically the Midwest maybe then they will turn.

 

[gummbo]

With the number of protesters out violating the stay at home orders to help save lives, I wish that hospitals could deny care to anyone that decided to violate the stay at home order. If you go out in violation of the order and contract the disease, you should be forced to treat yourself at home rather than putting the lives of people who already risk their lives and the lives of their families to provide care and treatment to people who got the disease while actually trying to protect themselves from the virus.

Unfortunately the Hippocratic oath does not allow you to do this, it would be like a black doctor refusing to treat a white supremacist.

 

[RobF]

Peer reviewed scientific paper on masks(respirators) from 2016.

States clearly that prolonged use of masks reduce oxygenation and also have deleterious effects.

Respirator masks protect health but impact performance: a review - PMC

Respiratory protective masks are used whenever it is too costly or impractical to remove airborne contamination from the atmosphere. Respirators are used in a wide range of occupations, form the military to medicine. Respirators have been found to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here is another paper showing masks can be harmful to pregnant women.

Respiratory consequences of N95-type Mask usage in pregnant healthcare workers—a controlled clinical study - PMC

Outbreaks of emerging infectious diseases have led to guidelines recommending the routine use of N95 respirators for healthcare workers, many of whom are women of childbearing age. The respiratory effects of prolonged respirator use on pregnant ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I post these because with the debate about mandating people wear masks at all times becoming the recent topic of debate.
It seems much of the media has latched on to an ignorant social media post about hypercapnia, which is a form of carbon dioxide poisoning.
Some reports have even stated(completely contrary to papers above) that wearing surgical masks have no impact on blood cell oxygenation.

Did you actually read either of those, or did you just see them somewhere else claiming they said those things, and then post them here?

I ask, because I just read both of them, and you've grossly overstated what the conclusions of both those papers are.

The first one discusses the effects of using respirators - by which they mean the full range of respirators, including full facepiece respirators, air-purifying respirators, and self-contained breathing apparatus, not simple cloth coverings - notes that they can reduce performance and limit work time, and concludes that accommodations must be made for the adjustments needed.

The second one focuses on the effects of N95 masks for pregnant healthcare workers, notes the effect of N95 mask materials on tidal volume, minute ventilation, and volumes of oxygen consumption and carbon dioxide expired, while noting also 'no changes in the maternal and fetal heart rates, finger-tip capillary lactate levels and oxygen saturation and rating of perceived exertion at the work intensity investigated,' along with no drive in increased breathing frequency. The paper does not show that "masks can be harmful to pregnant women" as you stated (not least because it would have been a completely unethical study if it did). What they do raise is "concern regarding prolonged use of N95-masks by pregnant healthcare workers", specifically that "pregnant women may experience more fatigue and require more rest breaks from mask use", and advise that, "Scheduled work breaks should be considered for pregnant healthcare workers working in high risk areas which require prolonged use of N95 respirators," and also that "Use of alternative protective methods such as surgical masks with lesser airway resistance, should be considered in appropriate settings."

Neither of those papers even covers the effects of simple cloth covering masks, nor is either arguing against the use of masks in general where appropriate. The second one is explicit in recognising the benefits of masks as protective methods against serious emerging infectious diseases and actively recommends the consideration of the use of surgical masks for pregnant healthcare workers where appropriate.

Snopes pretty much tries to say there is nothing to worry about and goes contrary to the papers stated above.

Is It Dangerous to Wear a COVID-19 Protective Mask for Too Long?

Prolonged usage of certain masks can cause some health concerns.

www.snopes.com

I'm not sure you read this either? It doesn't say what you claim it says. The article explicitly mentions findings in line with those two papers, e.g. 'N95 masks are estimated to reduce oxygen intake by anywhere from 5 to 20 percent,' while stating that cloth or surgical masks (as the second paper you linked to recommends considering for pregnant healthcare workers) are lower risk.

Here is a story about somebody passing out while driving... and yes I see a lot of people wearing their masks while driving.

Driver in crash may have passed out from wearing N95 mask too long: Police

Police said the driver is believed to have worn an N95 mask for too long before the crash.

abcnews.go.com

This is one of those things we have to think about before stating that everyone should wear masks.

No. It might be something to think about before stating that everyone should wear N95 masks in all situations all the time without breaks but the thing is, no-one is actually stating that. For example, the CDC is recommending simple cloth coverings, not surgical masks or N95 masks, specifically in public settings, not all the time. The WHO also recommends N95 masks for healthcare workers only.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Unfortunately the Hippocratic oath does not allow you to do this, it would be like a black doctor refusing to treat a white supremacist.

I agree about the Hippocratic oath and I knew that to be true before I posted. A doctor takes the oath, not the hospital. Until 1986, hospitals used to refuse service if you didn't have insurance or couldn't pay. A law was passed to prohibit that practice and the law only applies to hospitals that participate in Medicaid and Medicare. The situation I described is nothing like a black doctor refusing to treat a white supremacist. In the situation I posited, the white supremacist would never make it to the black doctor.

I really don't care about the color of the people who are out there protesting the stay at home order. IMO, they don't deserve to get treatment for an illness that they knowingly and willingly exposed themselves to out of sheer stupidity and political partisanship. The people who put themselves at risk every day deserve better than that and those who expose themselves for political purposes deserve the outcome that they choose to promulgate.

 

[BobE]

Burr stepping down from Chairmanship.

 

[gummbo]

Anybody watching the CNN medical hearings? Just happen to change the channel to Fox news and there is no word of this whatsoever. #HidingTheTruth

 

[gummbo]

I agree about the Hippocratic oath and I knew that to be true before I posted. A doctor takes the oath, not the hospital. Until 1986, hospitals used to refuse service if you didn't have insurance or couldn't pay. A law was passed to prohibit that practice and the law only applies to hospitals that participate in Medicaid and Medicare. The situation I described is nothing like a black doctor refusing to treat a white supremacist. In the situation I posited, the white supremacist would never make it to the black doctor.

I really don't care about the color of the people who are out there protesting the stay at home order. IMO, they don't deserve to get treatment for an illness that they knowingly and willingly exposed themselves to out of sheer stupidity and political partisanship. The people who put themselves at risk every day deserve better than that and those who expose themselves for political purposes deserve the outcome that they choose to promulgate.

I believe that the, reason for not getting treatment at a hospital I E lack of insurance or money falls on the business side of running a hospital, but in the past and what I mean by this in the early 1900s doctors were not really interested in cash per say because they were getting paid with other things hence the barter system and they were more interested in covering the patients than actually getting payment for their work. This last nightmare is from my belief that this is what their mindset was. And as far as the white supremacist black doctor comment, that was my attempt at trying to find a parallel to why a doctor would not refuse service to these #OpenUpTheCountryNowPeople. I believe if one of these people were to get sick out in public and the doctor was in the area, he would not hesitate to help them.

 

[BobE]

Anybody watching the CNN medical hearings? Just happen to change the channel to Fox news and there is no word of this whatsoever. #HidingTheTruth

OMG I know right? Earlier FNC was showing it but CNN wasn't #WhatisCNNafraidof

 

[Farb]

Burr stepping down from Chairmanship.

Good. I hope they investigate the shirt out of that and he gets everything he deserves.

 

[gummbo]

OMG I know right? Earlier FNC was showing it but CNN wasn't #WhatisCNNafraidof

It’s Afraid of another four years of hump,Just like the rest of us

 

[Saintamaniac]

Good. I hope they investigate the shirt out of that and he gets everything he deserves.

He's not alone. This happened on both sides, Republican and Democrat. Investigate and if improprieties are found, prosecute to fullest extent of the law.

 

[Beach Friends]

It's for your own safety.

 

[Farb]

That about the correct the level of force needed on a mother with her young child.

 

[Humperdoo]

I agree that is disgusting, and should be considered manslaughter. There was a Detroit bus driver that probably got infected by a passenger that coughed several times on his bus without covering their mouth. That's not quite as bad, but a grown woman should know better. That seemed intentional.

Detroit bus driver dies from coronavirus days after making angry video about coughing passenger | CNN

Bus driver Jason Hargrove spoke to the people of Detroit on video March 21, trying to get them to take the coronavirus pandemic seriously.

www.cnn.com

Then there is the guy that spit and coughed on the vegetables at a grocery store. I think he was charged for the produce, but what if people didn't see him do it.

Man accused of spitting and coughing on produce at grocery store in Massachusetts

Video shows other shoppers tackling the 65-year-old man, who allegedly became combative and argumentative.

abc7.com

I saw those too. And yes at least manslaughter. Very sick and sad to me.

 

[Humperdoo]

Unfortunately the Hippocratic oath does not allow you to do this, it would be like a black doctor refusing to treat a white supremacist.

Can we go five posts on here without someone on the left talking about racism? Don’t worry it’s rhetorical.

Anybody watching the CNN medical hearings? Just happen to change the channel to Fox news and there is no word of this whatsoever. #HidingTheTruth

Lmao. Yea. They’re the ones hiding the truth the most.

It’s Afraid of another four years of hump,Just like the rest of us

Well idk, almost died last year and the docs say it’s touch and go. I may not have 4 years left but I’m gonna make the most of what I’ve got.

 

[Humperdoo]

That about the correct the level of force needed on a mother with her young child.

As long as we’re ‘protected’.

 

[Lapaz]

It's for your own safety.

From what I saw, that lady was extremely disrespectful, and was resisting a lawful order. They didn't hurt her, but she was being very belligerent over a touch. She was apparently screaming a lot of obscenities in front of her young child. She set a terrible example for her child. I think the police handled the situation well with minimal force, despite the guy in the video saying it was too much. The only recourse is to allow her to break the law.