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All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (2 Viewers)

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    Maxp

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    I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?
     
    So what I am reading from some of you is that if you need groceries, you have no reasonable expectation to be able to go to the store without taking unnecessary risks due to other people refusing to take a reasonable precaution? That seems to be what you all are saying, maybe I misunderstood.

    If you refuse to take a reasonable precaution, such as wearing a mask while in public, you are a selfish person. It’s really just about that simple. You’d rather take the chance of being responsible for infecting someone with an untreatable virus, that could possibly cause severe disease or death, than be inconvenienced. If that’s not the definition of being selfish, I don’t know what is.

    Also, when you work in a meat packing plant, or any other factory, really, and you have no ability to isolate yourself, how does that isolation option work exactly? Especially when your state tells you that if you don’t go back to work immediately you will no longer be eligible for unemployment?

    also, btw, to everyone who thinks we only need to protect the “elderly”, our ICU and the ICU of the nearest hospital to mine is full of 50 and 60 somethings who were gainfully employed before they got sick. Some of them may well die due to this, I sure hope not, but they are certainly at high risk of dying right now. Hint: it’s not just the elderly who are at risk. These are not people you would have called “weak and vulnerable”. My lord, the framing is maddening.

    I mean, I get it that the economy is in real danger, but the reason isnt the lockdown. Not really. The reason is that this administration has completely wasted a two month head start, and completely botched testing. Without being able to test, trace and isolate, we had to shut down widely. We could have had targeted shutdowns, but they decided not to care about it. Probably one of the worst responses in the world. The death toll has already far exceeded what we should have seen, and no end in sight.

    I also have seen where people were already stopping a lot of the risky activities before the lockdown, as the facts about what has gone on in NYC and Washington State became common knowledge. And they generally aren’t rushing back, for the most part. The economy was going to have some difficulty due to the virus anyway. But what we have now is the worst of both sides of the crisis. Mixed messaging, a lack of federal leadership. It’s been a total shirt show.
     
    I'm confused.

    At first, Trump said it was no big deal. It was going to go back to zero in a few days. "There are only 15 and in a short time it goes away" Well, that was wrong. Let's accept that it's because China lied to us and he didn't know what was coming. Ok.

    Then, it was going to be a bigger deal, but no more than 60k dead and, of course, that was wrong. 85k and counting higher every day. Trump isn't an epidemiologist and the virus isn't his fault. He could have locked us down and taken it serious, but let's assume he's just an optimist. HIs gut told him it was going to work out better. Ok, but he was wrong. And, here we are.

    Without much direction, governors started to lock down states to curtail the rise and "flatten the curve."

    Trump has bragged we've done it. He's refused to wear masks, but now the White House has infections. It's still not his fault. It's what happens, but his gut was wrong again.

    So, my question is for "conservatives" who are clamoring for the economy to "open up."

    1. What does "open up" mean?

    2. Given the protests and the uniformity of the Trump supporters holding this as less of a big deal than it appears to be and their protests, etc., how do Trump supporters reconcile the bad gut feelings, the poor reaction to the early stages and the fact that Trump's own doctors and guidance told us to shelter in place and shut down.



    Who are you protesting? Why is the blame going to Democratic Governors instead of Trump who was wrong? As we pass 100k deaths in about another week, are the promises that 15 people and it goes away ever going to matter? Will the extended or repeated shutdown be blamed on Trump for being wrong at first or being now?

    Or, is it simply that in the eyes of those who support him, Trump can do no wrong?

    The economy has crashed under his watch.

    80k are dead and the numbers are so far from what he's told us there's no excusing it from the man who has the world's deepest resources at his fingertips..
     
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    Beach Friends said:
    I think it is inevitable, regardles of what we do. It may be that we are able to slow the spread, but for how long, at what cost and to what end?
    Click to expand...
    It is not inevitable. If we get fast and widely available tests, and teams to do contact tracing, the virus can be contained and prevented from spreading widely. The cost is far less than keeping the economy shut. However, we need to remain partially closed until we have that, otherwise it will resurge, and people won’t partake in the places that are risky.
     
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the economy can't and won't fully "re-open" just because Trump, state governments, or local governments give the green light. People are going to adjust their behavior according to perceived risks - and not just to them, but their family members, friends and co-workers. People were altering their behaviors before the "shutdowns" and will continue to do so when they are lifted, until such time as people feel safe going back to normal life.

    And mt15's point about masks is well taken. It's not too much to ask to wear a mask so in the event you're infected you'll at least minimize the risk of infecting others.
     
    Beach Friends said:
    I think it is inevitable, regardles of what we do. It may be that we are able to slow the spread, but for how long, at what cost and to what end?
    Click to expand...


    Here is the sad thing about our administration. We won't invest in testing we would rather kill off people.

    China is having a second surge right now so they are testing every soul in the Providence.

    They are gonna do 11 million tests in the next ten days.

    Wrap your head around that one.

    That is over a million than the us has given to date.

    www.politico.com

    How many coronavirus cases have been found in each U.S. state

    Using data from the COVID Tracking Project, we’re following how each state is responding to COVID-19.
    www.politico.com www.politico.com

    So yes if the administration keeps playing games rather than accually do the work it will blow up again.

    Test and tracking is the only answer besides human sacrifice.
     
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    I think the main concern with the open up now crowd is that they scream about the economy not moving in the right direction and equating it to the fall of the Donald Trump empire which is coming soon, it would have been cheaper for Congress and the Senate to approve A minimum of $10,000 a month per US citizen for the next three months at least so that it would be a deterrent for people to go out in public unprotected.
     
    This should be an inspiration to many of those around the world who close their eyes and think that "it will just go away"


    At the center of Kerala's response was woman who has been nicknamed "the coronavirus slayer."
    In the second week of January -- before the state, and by extension India, had reported its first coronavirus case -- Kerala's Minister of Health and Social Welfare, KK Shailaja, noticed reports of a virus spreading in Wuhan, China.
    With many students from Kerala studying in Wuhan, KK Shailaja suspected it was just a matter of time before the virus arrived in the state. In late January, the ministry set up 18 expert groups for different facets of the outbreak control, covering everything from contact tracing and screening, to logistics and mental health. "We planned everything," she says.
    From January 24, the government screened all passengers returning from China, and sent all symptomatic patients to designated isolation facilities. On January 30, Kerala confirmed its first coronavirus patient -- a student who had been studying in Wuhan.
    Click to expand...

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/12/asia/india-coronavirus-kerala-flatten-curve-intl-hnk/index.html
     
    Savage said:
    Not sure if this is legit, but if so wow.. China is a problem that everyone has been willing to overlook because they like their cheap shirt.

    Click to expand...

    I haven't read the report, but could it just be that China wanted to confirm it first? Knowing that if it wasn't person to person, then it would cause global alarm for no reason?
     
    It seems that this is some very good news, especially if they can produce the number of tests needed.

    MSN

    www.msn.com
     
    ...
    Heathen said:
    Well, Germany tried it. Are we next in line for headline news in this area? Seems likely..

    www.express.co.uk

    Germany’s daily coronavirus cases nearly TRIPLE

    CORONAVIRUS cases in Germany have almost trebled in the past 24 hours sparking fears of a second wave of COVID-19 infections.
    www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk
    Click to expand...

    Do we know if these are "new" cases of exposure, or previously unknown cases of exposure?
    The article says it's been less than a week of lifting lockdown restrictions.
     
    The moose said:
    Great news. We have to mass test. Without know who shows no symptoms they still spread.
    Click to expand...

    True. Plus, if I understand the process correctly, if people have been found to have the antibodies, their plasma can be used to treat some hospitalized COVID patients.
     

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