All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (1 Viewer)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Mississippi will probably be a good test case for the success of the reopening of the economy before meeting the thresholds recommended by the CDC. Using statistics from the latest health figures I could find (2017), the state ranked first or second nationally in deaths related to kidney disease, flu/pneumonia, diabetes and chronic lower respiratory disease. Almost 40% of our population is obese and nearly a third report no leisure time physical activity (2018 numbers). So we are a very unhealthy population with what I would characterize as a cavalier attitude toward coronavirus safety recommendations. Though some are careful in their personal interactions, I believe a large majority are not, so we should be able to tell something in about three weeks. If the cases and deaths spike by the end of May, the reopening will have been a monumental failure.

You can hope that maybe more warm weather and sunlight will slow the spread. That's my hope as the country starts to re-open. And if that's the case hopefully we can continue to ramp up the infrastructure over the summer to be prepared for a fall spike.

I'm not all doom and gloom. We are much more able to protect our population than we were in 1918. Better understanding of viral spread, better technology to develop treatments and vaccines. Faster delivery of information to react in near real time. And so on... As long as we continue to take this seriously.

 

[JimEverett]

UncleTrvlingJim - do you think that we can stop the vast majority of people in the US from getting the virus?
I do not mean this as a gotcha question. I think you can believe that and believe we should still be trying to slow the spread via various methods - including lockdowns.
Just genuinely curious what your opinion is on that.

 

[JimEverett]

Thought this was a joke, apparently it is not:

Opinion | Cuomo to Covid Volunteers: Pay Up

The governor imposes New York income taxes on the health-care workers from other states who answered his call to come fight coronavirus.

www.wsj.com

When Gov. Andrew Cuomo appealed in March for health-care workers to come to New York and help fight the Covid-19 epidemic, some 21,000 people from around the country volunteered. Thousands came, toiling under difficult conditions and earning the admiration of New Yorkers.
Now these workers are learning they’ll make another contribution to the state. Mr. Cuomo said earlier this week they’ll have to pay state taxes on income earned while they were in New York.

 

[Richard]

You can hope that maybe more warm weather and sunlight will slow the spread. That's my hope as the country starts to re-open. And if that's the case hopefully we can continue to ramp up the infrastructure over the summer to be prepared for a fall spike.

I'm not all doom and gloom. We are much more able to protect our population than we were in 1918. Better understanding of viral spread, better technology to develop treatments and vaccines. Faster delivery of information to react in near real time. And so on... As long as we continue to take this seriously.

Yes, I am hoping that warmer weather and sunlight will help. Also, I believe the hospitals and medical professionals did a good job with the cases they were able to identify. With the efforts that researchers are putting into vaccines, I am hopeful in that area as well. Where I have the greatest concern is that I do not believe that most Mississippians are taking the risks seriously. When restrictions were eased, most people act as if the threat has passed, even though the governor and others continue to say otherwise.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

UncleTrvlingJim - do you think that we can stop the vast majority of people in the US from getting the virus?
I do not mean this as a gotcha question. I think you can believe that and believe we should still be trying to slow the spread via various methods - including lockdowns.
Just genuinely curious what your opinion is on that.

It's a tough question, and I think it's a good question to ask, b/c if we can't stop the vast majority from getting it in a short period of time, then our actions now only exacerbate the pain by implementing economically harmful policies that will ultimately be ineffective.

So, I have to caveat that I don't know for sure, this is obviously well outside my area of expertise, and I haven't read any papers or studies that give any sort of probabilistic weightings on controlling the spread. But if the R0 factor for this virus is around 2, then yes, I think we can control the spread over the course of a year to 18 months while a vaccine is developed and mass produced.

So, I guess that's another data point we need to be nailing down right now.

 

[Devildog]

Thought this was a joke, apparently it is not:

Opinion | Cuomo to Covid Volunteers: Pay Up

The governor imposes New York income taxes on the health-care workers from other states who answered his call to come fight coronavirus.

www.wsj.com

When Gov. Andrew Cuomo appealed in March for health-care workers to come to New York and help fight the Covid-19 epidemic, some 21,000 people from around the country volunteered. Thousands came, toiling under difficult conditions and earning the admiration of New Yorkers.
Now these workers are learning they’ll make another contribution to the state. Mr. Cuomo said earlier this week they’ll have to pay state taxes on income earned while they were in New York.

I saw that last night as a friend of mine is a nurse and went there to help out. It's stupid.

 

[Richard]

Thought this was a joke, apparently it is not:

Opinion | Cuomo to Covid Volunteers: Pay Up

The governor imposes New York income taxes on the health-care workers from other states who answered his call to come fight coronavirus.

www.wsj.com

When Gov. Andrew Cuomo appealed in March for health-care workers to come to New York and help fight the Covid-19 epidemic, some 21,000 people from around the country volunteered. Thousands came, toiling under difficult conditions and earning the admiration of New Yorkers.
Now these workers are learning they’ll make another contribution to the state. Mr. Cuomo said earlier this week they’ll have to pay state taxes on income earned while they were in New York.

The phrasing of the headline/tagline seems to be incorrect. New York state tax law determines whether workers need to pay income tax for income earned in New York and most states have similar entries in their tax code. So if he said they will have to pay, he wouldn't be imposing the tax; he would simply be following the law. However, the decent thing to do would be to waive the tax for those who came to New York to help.

 

[JimEverett]

The phrasing of the headline/tagline seems to be incorrect. New York state tax law determines whether workers need to pay income tax for income earned in New York and most states have similar entries in their tax code. So if he said they will have to pay, he wouldn't be imposing the tax; he would simply be following the law. However, the decent thing to do would be to waive the tax for those who came to New York to help.

True, but if a pandemic gives Governors the power to criminalize all sorts of individual behavior it seems that Cuomo could use his power to waive income tax requirements that came to help his State after he asked. So in a legitimate sense, he has imposed the tax.

 

[The moose]

I don't know about others, but I know I have done what I could to protect my 83-year old mother. She hasn't been out of her home or yard for almost two months other than an occasional drive. I bring her food and supplies, leaving them on the sunny porch. Until our stay at home order was changed, I only left home for food myself or to take something to my mother, so I took part in no non-essential activities. I have worn masks, used hand sanitizer, washed my hands religiously and wiped down everything with disinfectant. But on my last trip out, I had to buy gas, so I masked up and stopped at the nearest station to my house. They serve a plate lunch at this station, so I thought I might duck in and buy a hot lunch for my mother. When I opened the door, there were at least 40 people crowded around the counter trying to order and pick up food. Not a mask in sight and not a soul practicing social distancing. I believe it can be safely assumed that they behave the same way at other stops in my small community. I didn't enter the building.

I can do everything I can to stay safe and limit non-essential activities, but if no one else is doing the same, the likelihood is that I will be continually at risk of coming into contact with a carrier of the virus who is just exercising his rights. I don't believe any of these people think they are immune or that risk of infection is gone. I do think that people are either poorly informed or that they are confused by the mixed messages they are receiving. I refuse to accept that they believe that their right to assemble in groups at a lunch counter is more important than the lives of at risk individuals.

That my friend is the problem with reopening in a nut shell.

Personally I have turned down work because I would have to bring in help to finish. Help that I know nothing about that could also take this pandemic as a joke. I am more than sure they found someone to put a dollar figure on that risk. I am not.


I have a 78 year old mother that had a hip replacement not long ago. She is doesn't have great mobility yet. So I have to enter her house and help out. I realistically am not gonna put a dollar figure on her life.

I know that we are a long time from a vaccine and it is what is needed for confidence or even a false confidence of the population but everyone else taking this seriously would go a long way. If that message was being pushed from the top would go a long way.

I guess the helpers and staff testing positive will do nothing except get them tested so we can still push the agenda they are.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

True, but if a pandemic gives Governors the power to criminalize all sorts of individual behavior it seems that Cuomo could use his power to waive income tax requirements that came to help his State after he asked. So in a legitimate sense, he has imposed the tax.

So, decisions like this I find pretty perplexing. Cuomo made a definitive statement that they would need to pay state income tax, so it's not like he's unaware of the issue. So that means either he doesn't have the power to waive their income tax, or he doesn't think it's a good idea.

If it's the latter, I'm trying to think of why it would be a bad idea to waive income tax for those volunteers. It's not a ton of money so it's not it would make a difference in the state budget. I can't imagine any political blowback from waiving the income tax for those volunteers. So, I'm not sure what the reasoning would be to keep it in place.

 

[The moose]

Thought this was a joke, apparently it is not:

Opinion | Cuomo to Covid Volunteers: Pay Up

The governor imposes New York income taxes on the health-care workers from other states who answered his call to come fight coronavirus.

www.wsj.com

When Gov. Andrew Cuomo appealed in March for health-care workers to come to New York and help fight the Covid-19 epidemic, some 21,000 people from around the country volunteered. Thousands came, toiling under difficult conditions and earning the admiration of New Yorkers.
Now these workers are learning they’ll make another contribution to the state. Mr. Cuomo said earlier this week they’ll have to pay state taxes on income earned while they were in New York.

I guess you have never worked out of state?

That is the way it works.

This is not some shocking thing.

NFL players love playing in states that don't have a state income tax like Florida because they get paid per game if the game is in another state they owe in that state. If you sign with a home team in a no tax state you get more tax free games.

 

[Beach Friends]

This study has nothing to do with environment or climate but with imuno response systems - the most fundamental part of our defense against infections. Since we all basically have the same ancestors if we go far enought back. The main difference here is the 4% Neanderthal genetic materials which are found in many Europeans.

Yeah, and Vitamin D deficiency may result from genetic differences and be a reason there is a variance in immuno response AS WELL.

 

[FullMonte]

So, decisions like this I find pretty perplexing. Cuomo made a definitive statement that they would need to pay state income tax, so it's not like he's unaware of the issue. So that means either he doesn't have the power to waive their income tax, or he doesn't think it's a good idea.

If it's the latter, I'm trying to think of why it would be a bad idea to waive income tax for those volunteers. It's not a ton of money so it's not it would make a difference in the state budget. I can't imagine any political blowback from waiving the income tax for those volunteers. So, I'm not sure what the reasoning would be to keep it in place.

I'm thinking it's the former. Since the tax law was passed by the legislature (I assume), I don't think that the governor can unilaterally waive it.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Another challenge with just trying to isolate the at risk population is how big that at risk populations is.

16.2% of the US is over the age of 60.
10% of the population has diabetes
48% of the population has some form of hypertension or other heart disease (that sounds way high, but I got it off of here https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190131084238.htm)
15% of the population has chronic kidney disease (https://www.kidney.org/news/newsroom/factsheets/KidneyDiseaseBasics)

Obviously there's going to be overlap between those groups. But the point is, we aren't a healthy population, trying to isolate only the at-risk population is probably more difficult and expensive than just having mass testing, contact tracing and targeted lockdowns.

Found a better number for percent of Americans with cardiovascular disease - 12% (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/heart-disease.htm)

The 48% includes people with blood pressure above 130, which is considered hypertension, but I'm not sure that would be used as a comorbidity on a death certificate. The 12% number above would.

So, some number above 10% of the population and probably below 30% of the population would need to self-isolate if that's the plan.

 

[JimEverett]

I'm thinking it's the former. Since the tax law was passed by the legislature (I assume), I don't think that the governor can unilaterally waive it.

So when a legislature passes legislation creating parks for the public and provides funding for them yearly how can a Governor unilaterally shut them down during a pandemic but is unable to bypass the legislature on taxes?

 

[Farb]

Thought this was a joke, apparently it is not:

Opinion | Cuomo to Covid Volunteers: Pay Up

The governor imposes New York income taxes on the health-care workers from other states who answered his call to come fight coronavirus.

www.wsj.com

When Gov. Andrew Cuomo appealed in March for health-care workers to come to New York and help fight the Covid-19 epidemic, some 21,000 people from around the country volunteered. Thousands came, toiling under difficult conditions and earning the admiration of New Yorkers.
Now these workers are learning they’ll make another contribution to the state. Mr. Cuomo said earlier this week they’ll have to pay state taxes on income earned while they were in New York.

This will be a used to force the Feds to 'bailout' the states. Cuomo said as much in his news conference.

 

[The moose]

True, but if a pandemic gives Governors the power to criminalize all sorts of individual behavior it seems that Cuomo could use his power to waive income tax requirements that came to help his State after he asked. So in a legitimate sense, he has imposed the tax.

That is just plain silly talk.

Pay the tax.

Where ever you came from to help I am more than certain you were paid a higher wage than your home state to do the job.Exceptionally higher!

I don't think the people that went to fight the pandemic did it for any other reason except to fight the pandemic so hopefully that they would not have to fight it at home.

Hell they make so much more in New Orleans being a RN I personally know some that commute from north of Jackson Mississippi.

So yes they were paid and paid well.

 

[Heathen]

This would be a fantastic help to most Americans, wouldn't it? Unfortunately Republicans would likely be fiercely against it:

Democratic senators propose $2,000 monthly payments to most Americans

Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders and Ed Markey want to dramatically expand support during the coronavirus crisis.

www.politico.com