All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (8 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Dadsdream]

So, I'm sitting here working from home. My email box is getting slammed with SPAM messages from companies that say they have the best deals on masks and PPE.

It's funny, some of them express concern for the well-being of me and my family, then they make their sales pitch.
Some of them bang the drum and say America will get through this and come out stronger, then they make their sales pitch.
Still others say they are expanding into new product lines, then they make their sales pitch.

One thing I'm seeing in common is that they're mostly all from CEO's and they're all "heartfelt" personal messages.

 

[The moose]

So, I'm sitting here working from home. My email box is getting slammed with SPAM messages from companies that say they have the best deals on masks and PPE.

It's funny, some of them express concern for the well-being of me and my family, then they make their sales pitch.
Some of them bang the drum and say America will get through this and come out stronger, then they make their sales pitch.
Still others say they are expanding into new product lines, then they make their sales pitch.

One thing I'm seeing in common is that they're mostly all from CEO's and they're all "heartfelt" personal messages.

Well blame uncle Sam for that one.


Free market bro! Rather than your uncle doing what is right and securing these products at a fair price and getting them to where they need to go you get emails.

Yep it is called banking on death and fear.

 

[SystemShock]

I think the problem could have been fixed a long time ago by not calling it the China virus!

I seriously doubt that. As I posted somewhere else, we all were bombarded with pictures and videos from China for 2-3 months via every medium out there. We could call it Percival Sweetwater, and still everyone knows where it came from.

 

[Dadsdream]

Well blame uncle Sam for that one.


Free market bro! Rather than your uncle doing what is right and securing these products at a fair price and getting them to where they need to go you get emails.

Yep it is called banking on death and fear.

Well moose,

I processed over $5 million in federal purchases last year, all in compliance with Small Business Administration guidelines. Doing that causes business email addresses to get posted, harvested and sold to honest businesses and spammers alike.

Nearly all my purchases were based on Lowest Price Technically Acceptable standards, but there were a few Best Value Determinations for more complicated items like aircraft engines.

I once tried to share my knowledge and understanding of the Small Business Administration, North American Industry Classification Standards (NAICS) Codes, Business Size Determinations, and Federal Acquisition Regulations.

I won't do that again.

But here's a link that helps somewhat. There's even a handy dandy tool to help determine the size of your business.

Certain government programs, such as SBA loan programs and contracting opportunities, are reserved for small businesses. In order to qualify, businesses must satisfy SBA's definition of a small business concern, along with the size standards for small business.

Table of size standards | U.S. Small Business Administration

The table of size standards can also be found online in the small business size regulations set forth in the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations. Certain government programs, such as SBA loan programs and contracting opportunities, are reserved for small businesses. In order to qualify...

www.sba.gov

 

[dtc]

So it’s racist, but only tangentially, so don’t say that it’s racist?

If they want to think they scored some points with the home team because I called their racism racist, well they can just have it.

Your other points are absolutely correct. But imma still call racism what it is every time I see it. If it’s not racist, then I won’t call it that.

There’s a difference between calling racist things racist and calling non-racist things racist.

I dont' think their intention is as much to be racist in a sly manner as it is to just blame someone and ease their consciences over Trump's idiocy.

 

[dtc]

Do you truly feel that we all worship Trump?

Worship is the wrong word. I think you all make rationalizations that allow you to excuse him for what he does that you find morally, intellectually and culturally indefensible. I see it as a defense mechanism used by most Republicans rather than actual worship, but there certainly are those who do.

Those are the ones who constantly post how Trump is the greatest president of all time and him in images in superman outfits and with his pecker draped over his leg. Those folks worship him. You guys just make excuses for him that make it easier for you to sleep at night while owning the libs.

 

[dtc]

I posted this in the EE
==================

Last I read they think a bat infected a pangolin? (Kind of anteater) and eating that passed to humans

And I assume that the Chinese have been eating both for centuries or longer

To me this is like calling it the Chinese or Wuhan virus

Just a subtle (or not so subtle) way to say

This is all happening because of THOSE foreign people in THAT foreign country

Bringing up the bat just adds to it

This is all happening because THOSE foreign people in THAT foreign country EAT filthy vermin because of THEIR primitive backwards foreign ways

Beach Friends posted above about how we all eat crawfish and think nothing of it. What if eating crawfish that we all purchase in wet markets somehow set off a chain of events that caused a global pandemic?

There are people on the other board right now crying about Phil Jackson for joking after Katrina about termites and pumping mud out of the Smoothie King center. You think we'd be defensive about the coonass virus?

 

[Richard]

I dont' think their intention is as much to be racist in a sly manner as it is to just blame someone and ease their consciences over Trump's idiocy.

Obviously, there have been incidences of racism, but focusing on those incidences doesn't get us anywhere in the long run. Yes, address the individual incidents, but I think it is wrong to make generalizations based on those.

However true that it may or may not be that there is an inherent racism in characterizing COVID-19 as the China Flu or the Wuhan Flu, the intention of the characterization is not as much to generate hatred toward the Chinese as it is to find a scapegoat. The object is to deflect attention from the efforts (or lack thereof) of the Trump administration in combating COVID-19. Anything that draws attention away from the negative aspects of the federal government's efforts achieves the goal. So whether it is China or governors or the media or whatever, anything that can deflect scrutiny away from the administration's crisis management is a "good thing."

 

[dtc]

Obviously, there have been incidences of racism, but focusing on those incidences doesn't get us anywhere in the long run. Yes, address the individual incidents, but I think it is wrong to make generalizations based on those.

However true that it may or may not be that there is an inherent racism in characterizing COVID-19 as the China Flu or the Wuhan Flu, the intention of the characterization is not as much to generate hatred toward the Chinese as it is to find a scapegoat. The object is to deflect attention from the efforts (or lack thereof) of the Trump administration in combating COVID-19. Anything that draws attention away from the negative aspects of the federal government's efforts achieves the goal. So whether it is China or governors or the media or whatever, anything that can deflect scrutiny away from the administration's crisis management is a "good thing."

Exactly.

Blaming China for being dishonest or lying is a good way they think they can overcome the fact that Trump and Bolton shut down the operation in place to deal with the fact that our enemy, China, is dishonest and likely to have this happen.

Calling it the "China" or "Wuhan" virus is not only slightly racist, but also xenophobic and plays to the base, but it's also another way to protect Trump from the weight of blame for inaction and inattention when this was brought to his attention last fall.

It's the same thing now that he's backed off his unitary authority to "open up" the economy and now leaves the responsibility of what to do on the governors. Topped with a helping of refutation for the idiot in Georgia, Trump is now straddling the line of being on the side of opening now without restriction vs a continued quarantine. In so doing, he can later blame the governor and his minions will parrot the fact that he disagreed.

It's his MO. Some see it and others ignore it, but it's there.

 

[Beach Friends]

Obviously, there have been incidences of racism, but focusing on those incidences doesn't get us anywhere in the long run. Yes, address the individual incidents, but I think it is wrong to make generalizations based on those.

However true that it may or may not be that there is an inherent racism in characterizing COVID-19 as the China Flu or the Wuhan Flu, the intention of the characterization is not as much to generate hatred toward the Chinese as it is to find a scapegoat. The object is to deflect attention from the efforts (or lack thereof) of the Trump administration in combating COVID-19. Anything that draws attention away from the negative aspects of the federal government's efforts achieves the goal. So whether it is China or governors or the media or whatever, anything that can deflect scrutiny away from the administration's crisis management is a "good thing."

Richard, there are outbreaks all over the world. Are the outbreaks everywhere Trump's fault?

Of course not, but regardless of where you look in the world there is a common source - China.

I actually see those using diversionary tactics as thosr who want to say, 'but Trump," everytime China is brought up.

I think it is painfully obvious that the United States would be facing this crisis, just like the rest of the world is, regardless of who the POTUS was.

On the other hand, if China was governed by a liberal, transparent, and responsible government the virus may have very well been contained or never started in the first instance.

If you want to make legitimate criticisms of the Trump administration I have no issue with that. I think it is even necessary going forward (although I think our nation, especially the House of Representatives, is so fragmented that it is going to be difficult to analyze lessons learned in an efficient, meaningful way.)

 

[Humperdoo]

Richard, there are outbreaks all over the world. Are the outbreaks everywhere Trump's fault?

Of course not, but regardless of where you look in the world there is a common source - China.




I think it is painfully obvious that the United States would be facing this crisis, just like the rest of the world is, regardless of who the POTUS was.

Duh, every problem in the history of the world is the Orange man’s fault. Because, just because. /sarcasm (to me)

It’s beyond painfully obvious. I truly can’t fathom how it can be perceived as racism or any other such utter nonsense. I’m just thankful that I am one of the people it is indeed painfully obvious to.

 

[dtc]

Richard, there are outbreaks all over the world. Are the outbreaks everywhere Trump's fault?

Of course not, but regardless of where you look in the world there is a common source - China.

I actually see those using diversionary tactics as thosr who want to say, 'but Trump," everytime China is brought up.

I think it is painfully obvious that the United States would be facing this crisis, just like the rest of the world is, regardless of who the POTUS was.

On the other hand, if China was governed by a liberal, transparent, and responsible government the virus may have very well been contained or never started in the first instance.

If you want to make legitimate criticisms of the Trump administration I have no issue with that. I think it is even necessary going forward (although I think our nation, especially the House of Representatives, is so fragmented that it is going to be difficult to analyze lessons learned in an efficient, meaningful way.)

You've restated the question incorrectly.

Yes, we would still be facing this crisis. That's obvious. The proper question is whether we'd be facing it the same way.

Would it be better or worse?

Would another administration have handed things better?

I would suggest that unless we had elected Alfred E Newman, the answer is a resounding yes.

Would any other administration have fired the exact group in place to manage this and watch China? Not likely.

Would any other administration have installed a plastic Ken-doll, like Kushner to manage their response? No.

Would any other administration be led by a man who doesn't read or listen to briefings because he's too busy cramming McDonalds down his pie hole while watching Fox and Friends from a tanning bed? No.

Would another administration be cheerleading themsevles from the podium each day passing dangerous supposition and word salad? Maybe, but even if they did I bet it couldn't be more stupid.

Would any other administration have found itself embroiled in the impeachment? Nope.

And, then look at the actual management of the crisis? Would FEMA be pilching supplies from the state or would the POTUS have merely threatened to enact the WPA to force the prodution of supplies?

Would any other president blatantly refuse to lead while blaming governors and his predecessor shamelessly and with blatant disregard for the truth?

You get the point. You said you'd accept fair criticism and there you have it. Are you going to accept it or sidestep it and act as if any of what I listed is untrue?

 

[Humperdoo]

You've restated the question incorrectly.

Yes, we would still be facing this crisis. That's obvious. The proper question is whether we'd be facing it the same way.

Would it be better or worse?

Would another administration have handed things better?

I would suggest that unless we had elected Alfred E Newman, the answer is a resounding yes.

Would any other administration have fired the exact group in place to manage this and watch China? Not likely.

Would any other administration have installed a plastic Ken-doll, like Kushner to manage their response? No.

Would any other administration be led by a man who doesn't read or listen to briefings because he's too busy cramming McDonalds down his pie hole while watching Fox and Friends from a tanning bed? No.

Would another administration be cheerleading themsevles from the podium each day passing dangerous supposition and word salad? Maybe, but even if they did I bet it couldn't be more stupid.

Would any other administration have found itself embroiled in the impeachment? Nope.

And, then look at the actual management of the crisis? Would FEMA be pilching supplies from the state or would the POTUS have merely threatened to enact the WPA to force the prodution of supplies?

Would any other president blatantly refuse to lead while blaming governors and his predecessor shamelessly and with blatant disregard for the truth?

You get the point. You said you'd accept fair criticism and there you have it. Are you going to accept it or sidestep it and act as if any of what I listed is untrue?

I can dig several of em. I can’t go with ya on the impeachment as that was, to me, a complete farcical witch hunt. The Dems have been expending a whole lot of energy towards that end for seemingly the entire time the Orange man has been in office.

 

[Beach Friends]

You've restated the question incorrectly.

Yes, we would still be facing this crisis. That's obvious. The proper question is whether we'd be facing it the same way.

Would it be better or worse?

Would another administration have handed things better?

I would suggest that unless we had elected Alfred E Newman, the answer is a resounding yes.

Would any other administration have fired the exact group in place to manage this and watch China? Not likely.

Would any other administration have installed a plastic Ken-doll, like Kushner to manage their response? No.

Would any other administration be led by a man who doesn't read or listen to briefings because he's too busy cramming McDonalds down his pie hole while watching Fox and Friends from a tanning bed? No.

Would another administration be cheerleading themsevles from the podium each day passing dangerous supposition and word salad? Maybe, but even if they did I bet it couldn't be more stupid.

Would any other administration have found itself embroiled in the impeachment? Nope.

And, then look at the actual management of the crisis? Would FEMA be pilching supplies from the state or would the POTUS have merely threatened to enact the WPA to force the prodution of supplies?

Would any other president blatantly refuse to lead while blaming governors and his predecessor shamelessly and with blatant disregard for the truth?

You get the point. You said you'd accept fair criticism and there you have it. Are you going to accept it or sidestep it and act as if any of what I listed is untrue?

Unless you have a crystal ball, the answer to whether another administration would have handled it "better" is simply unknowable. They may not have made the same mistakes, but certainly mistakes would have been made.

It's interesting to look at the last Democratic debate, which was held on March 15th. Unless I am mistaken, there was not a single question presented about the CCP virus. Nor did either candidate mention it.

I recall that during the State of the Union Trump discussed the virus. Meanwhile, in the background you can see Pelosi's focus was on how to best tear up her copy of the State of the Union address.

So, the fact that Trump made mistakes provides us with no insight whatsoever as to what mistakes would have been made if HRC or Biden was at the helm. Those folks have their own issues.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Unless you have a crystal ball, the answer to whether another administration would have handled it "better" is simply unknowable. They may not have made the same mistakes, but certainly mistakes would have been made.

It's interesting to look at the last Democratic debate, which was held on March 15th. Unless I am mistaken, there was not a single question presented about the CCP virus. Nor did either candidate mention it.

I recall that during the State of the Union Trump discussed the virus. Meanwhile, in the background you can see Pelosi's focus was on how to best tear up her copy of the State of the Union address.

So, the fact that Trump made mistakes provides us with no insight whatsoever as to what mistakes would have been made if HRC or Biden was at the helm. Those folks have their own issues.

He touted a cure that was unproven and is now being shown to be ineffective at best. He legitimately asked if government doctors were looking into sunlight and disinfectant as a cure. The latter coincided with multiple states reporting a spike in phone calls to poison control centers regarding exposure to Lysol, bleach, and other disinfectants.

That's surely worthy of criticism and even blame, right?

 

[The moose]

Well moose,

I processed over $5 million in federal purchases last year, all in compliance with Small Business Administration guidelines. Doing that causes business email addresses to get posted, harvested and sold to honest businesses and spammers alike.

Nearly all my purchases were based on Lowest Price Technically Acceptable standards, but there were a few Best Value Determinations for more complicated items like aircraft engines.

I once tried to share my knowledge and understanding of the Small Business Administration, North American Industry Classification Standards (NAICS) Codes, Business Size Determinations, and Federal Acquisition Regulations.

I won't do that again.

But here's a link that helps somewhat. There's even a handy dandy tool to help determine the size of your business.

Certain government programs, such as SBA loan programs and contracting opportunities, are reserved for small businesses. In order to qualify, businesses must satisfy SBA's definition of a small business concern, along with the size standards for small business.

Table of size standards | U.S. Small Business Administration

The table of size standards can also be found online in the small business size regulations set forth in the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations. Certain government programs, such as SBA loan programs and contracting opportunities, are reserved for small businesses. In order to qualify...

www.sba.gov

Hi DD

I would just say if we would have a leader instead on a guy that keeps trying to get out of the way and hopes this goes away we would have used the defense production act on all PPE.

Then all PPE would then be sold to your uncle at a fair price because no other place to sell and then sent where it is needed. No price gouging. Nobody getting filthy off of death and fear.

But we would rather free market ultra profit!

But go right on any you be you. Dance around and type a bunch of nonsense rather than discuss the orange coward running the ship.

Don't order any because Jarred might intercept them just like he did 5 million masks going to the VA hospital I read about the other day.

Where are the swiped PPE products going? Who is getting them and what are the states being charged? Why are they still stealing PPE from places that desperately need it?

All needed answers I am more than sure you have no answer to.

 

[dtc]

I can dig several of em. I can’t go with ya on the impeachment as that was, to me, a complete farcical witch hunt. The Dems have been expending a whole lot of energy towards that end for seemingly the entire time the Orange man has been in office.

Trump actually committed the acts he was accused of and somehow it's a witch hunt.

It's really not. It's headinthesand-itis.

 

[Dadsdream]

Hi DD

I would just say if we would have a leader instead on a guy that keeps trying to get out of the way and hopes this goes away we would have used the defense production act on all PPE.

Then all PPE would then be sold to your uncle at a fair price because no other place to sell and then sent where it is needed. No price gouging. Nobody getting filthy off of death and fear.

But we would rather free market ultra profit!

But go right on any you be you. Dance around and type a bunch of nonsense rather than discuss the orange coward running the ship.

Don't order any because Jarred might intercept them just like he did 5 million masks going to the VA hospital I read about the other day.

Where are the swiped PPE products going? Who is getting them and what are the states being charged? Why are they still stealing PPE from places that desperately need it?

All needed answers I am more than sure you have no answer to.

OK, moose,

You lack sufficient knowledge to discuss such matters, Recommended reading:

Federal Acquisition Regulations (FAR)

FAR | Acquisition.GOV

www.acquisition.gov

Coronavirus-Related FAR

Coronavirus Acquisition-Related Information and Resources | Acquisition.GOV

www.acquisition.gov