All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (2 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Lapaz]

Trump: The federal government will defer to governors on how to handle each state and we will support them.

Also Trump: Take up arms and liberate yourselves from your stay at home orders from Democrat governors!!!!!!!

This is border line inciting violence. Isn’t that illegal? Is it impeachable?

 

[Dragon]

This is border line inciting violence. Isn’t that illegal? Is it impeachable?

I would say the fact that he writes "take up arms" much more than borderline

 

[Farb]

We have learned everything is impeachable. Am I missing the part of 'take up arms' because I don't see it.

 

[SystemShock]

Tillerson was right. Trump is a moron.

He's playing to his audience.

 

[Heathen]

Well here in Utah our Republican-led administration just announced plans to 'tenatively' open up parts of the economy in a few weeks. Restaurants, gyms, etc.

I guess I'm up to watch a science experiment.

 

[The moose]

Trump: The federal government will defer to governors on how to handle each state and we will support them.

Also Trump: Take up arms and liberate yourselves from your stay at home orders from Democrat governors!!!!!!!

Jesus this man is just plain an asshat.

No other way to put it

Well here in Utah our Republican-led administration just announced plans to 'tenatively' open up parts of the economy in a few weeks. Restaurants, gyms, etc.

I guess I'm up to watch a science experiment.

Be safe that is a bad idea.

 

[Lapaz]

Realistically that would have had to come from this administration to tell a state they were at risk. That would have been real early but the right thing to do.

If you want to look up the model of how merica should have handled this Google what Ireland has done. They have flat nailed it.

They shut down everything fast. No at Patrick's stuff. Actually over 50 percent of the deaths they have had are in retirement communities and are now sending hospital crews directly to retirement homes. Ireland has only lost just over 500 people.

Impressive job by them.

Ireland may have acted more decisively, but it is too soon to know whether their actions were adequate based on current data. They are about 4 weeks behind us, because their first infection was discovered on 29 FEB. About 4 weeks ago we had about 4,000 cases, and now we have about 700,000 cases. Ireland currently has about 14,000 cases, so hopefully they don't follow our trend line. Fortunately there are some promising remedies on the horizon.

 

[The moose]

Ireland may have acted more decisively, but it is too soon to know whether their actions were adequate based on current data. They are about 4 weeks behind us, because their first infection was discovered on 29 FEB. About 4 weeks ago we had about 4,000 cases, and now we have about 700,000 cases. Ireland currently has about 14,000 cases, so hopefully they don't follow our trend line. Fortunately there are some promising remedies on the horizon.

Well considering Ireland is about the same population as Louisiana and we have well more than twice as many deaths with more infected with the crappy testing going on in my State I would say that Ireland is doing pretty good and not celebrating at Patrick's day is gonna save serious lives just like Mardi gras is gonna be responsible for multiple deaths.

 

[Dragon]

we are beginning to open up now but definitely with a warning that they are going to shut things down again if we don't "behave!
(social distancing, handwashing, no more than 10 people at any place)

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/17/europe/denmark-coronavirus-first-school-intl/index.html


They are starting with the small businesses (hairdressers, mechanics, plumbers etc) and the youngest children ( kindergarden/grade 0-5)

 

[MT15]

I saw this graph tonight which is pretty spot on about the really idiotic argument that Dr. Phil made on Fox. No this isn’t anything like the regular flu, or drownings, or auto accidents, Phil.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I saw this graph tonight which is pretty spot on about the really idiotic argument that Dr. Phil made on Fox. No this isn’t anything like the regular flu, or drownings, or auto accidents, Phil.

Posted this on the EE

I do feel like I hear the car accident comparison a lot
=================
Eager to get America's businesses up and running again, presumably including his own, President Trump on Monday evening suggested that the country managed to maintain economic activity despite tens of thousands of deaths in car accidents each year. Why shut down over the coronavirus pandemic when we stay open despite car crashes?

“You look at automobile accidents, which are far greater than any numbers we're talking about,” Trump said. “That doesn't mean we're going to tell everybody no more driving of cars. So we have to do things to get our country open."

He was not the first to draw this analogy, nor was it the first time that he had done so. It is, however, a bad analogy........

To fairly compare car accidents to the virus, then, we would need to imagine that the bounds of the problem were similar. We’d need to imagine, for example, that from March 4 to March 14, the number of deaths from car accidents increased by a factor of 10.

And that, from March 14 to March 24, it had done so again. Do you think that if the number of vehicle deaths increased 100-fold over two weeks there wouldn’t be a sudden push to limit driving?

Imagine that most cars used a shared operating system to control internal systems. Suddenly, one day, something goes haywire with the code and the system starts forcing cars to accelerate uncontrollably. We'd suddenly see a lot of deadly accidents and a lot of close calls.

Now imagine if we discovered that the problem could be broadcast over cars’ internal WiFi networks to other vehicles nearby, allowing the problem to jump from one car to the next.

We would see places where the problem was worse, like on crowded highways. Very quickly, there would be restrictions about when and where you could drive your car. After all, something in the expected order had changed, and needed to be addressed............

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...aring-coronavirus-car-accident-deaths-is-bad/

 

[JimEverett]

Posted this on the EE

I do feel like I hear the car accident comparison a lot
=================
Eager to get America's businesses up and running again, presumably including his own, President Trump on Monday evening suggested that the country managed to maintain economic activity despite tens of thousands of deaths in car accidents each year. Why shut down over the coronavirus pandemic when we stay open despite car crashes?

“You look at automobile accidents, which are far greater than any numbers we're talking about,” Trump said. “That doesn't mean we're going to tell everybody no more driving of cars. So we have to do things to get our country open."

He was not the first to draw this analogy, nor was it the first time that he had done so. It is, however, a bad analogy........

To fairly compare car accidents to the virus, then, we would need to imagine that the bounds of the problem were similar. We’d need to imagine, for example, that from March 4 to March 14, the number of deaths from car accidents increased by a factor of 10.

And that, from March 14 to March 24, it had done so again. Do you think that if the number of vehicle deaths increased 100-fold over two weeks there wouldn’t be a sudden push to limit driving?

Imagine that most cars used a shared operating system to control internal systems. Suddenly, one day, something goes haywire with the code and the system starts forcing cars to accelerate uncontrollably. We'd suddenly see a lot of deadly accidents and a lot of close calls.

Now imagine if we discovered that the problem could be broadcast over cars’ internal WiFi networks to other vehicles nearby, allowing the problem to jump from one car to the next.

We would see places where the problem was worse, like on crowded highways. Very quickly, there would be restrictions about when and where you could drive your car. After all, something in the expected order had changed, and needed to be addressed............

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...aring-coronavirus-car-accident-deaths-is-bad/

Is the analogy ever used as a 1-1 comparison? I have never seen it used as such.

I believe I used the analogy on here a few days ago - and the point was not to say the virus is like car accidents. Nor do I think that was Trump's point.

The idea is that there is a certain element of risk in many activities. Even activities where we know that death is going to happen - like car accidents. The point, as I understand it, is that the certain danger of some activity - whether it be driving in a car or going to work with other people - is outweighed at some point by the costs of not engaging in that activity.

 

[not2rich]

I saw this graph tonight which is pretty spot on about the really idiotic argument that Dr. Phil made on Fox. No this isn’t anything like the regular flu, or drownings, or auto accidents, Phil.

But he's a doctor! We should listen to him!

 

[Intensesaint]

I saw this graph tonight which is pretty spot on about the really idiotic argument that Dr. Phil made on Fox. No this isn’t anything like the regular flu, or drownings, or auto accidents, Phil.

True, but if you take all the flu, pneumonia, cancer and heart disease deaths and lump them into one I bet it would look like that too. And right now, since COVID-19 is detrimental to many other conditions. like Cancer patients and those with heart disease, it will be counted as COVID instead of those other reasons. Is there anyway to find out how many deaths we have had this year from the normal flue this year? I bet not, I have a feeling they are all just being categorized as COVID-19

 

[not2rich]

Is the analogy ever used as a 1-1 comparison? I have never seen it used as such.

I believe I used the analogy on here a few days ago - and the point was not to say the virus is like car accidents. Nor do I think that was Trump's point.

The idea is that there is a certain element of risk in many activities. Even activities where we know that death is going to happen - like car accidents. The point, as I understand it, is that the certain danger of some activity - whether it be driving in a car or going to work with other people - is outweighed at some point by the costs of not engaging in that activity.

But we try to minimize the risk. We make car manufacturers satisfy safety standards. We make drivers follow road rules. We don't just let people drive anything they want on the roads anyway they want willy nilly.

 

[JimEverett]

But we try to minimize the risk. We make car manufacturers satisfy safety standards. We make drivers follow road rules. We don't just let people drive anything they want on the roads anyway they want willy nilly.

Sure. We always try to minimize the risk. And sometimes the risk is too much and we will shut things down for a period. But that doesn't make the analogy stupid or wrong.

 

[not2rich]

Sure. We always try to minimize the risk. And sometimes the risk is too much and we will shut things down for a period. But that doesn't make the analogy stupid or wrong.

Driving automobiles doesn't spread contagion, so the analogy is wrong.

 

[Lapaz]

Well considering Ireland is about the same population as Louisiana and we have well more than twice as many deaths with more infected with the crappy testing going on in my State I would say that Ireland is doing pretty good and not celebrating at Patrick's day is gonna save serious lives just like Mardi gras is gonna be responsible for multiple deaths.

Yes but you’re comparing Ireland to the 3rd worst state in the US. Only New York and New Jersey are in worse shape than Louisiana. I’m not dissing Ireland nor their actions, but they are also still being hit hard, and I wouldn't hold them out as the perfect example. We have done a lot wrong, mostly at the federal level, but other countries are doing badly as well. As bad as Trump has been, I can't say that he's been the worst in the world. However, given the intelligence and resources of this country, it does seem to be worse.