All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (17 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[surada]

Yep I got that.

Was just point out that DD and his comments of how even Israel and its first government were born in blood was just plan silly.

The point I was making with India even when dealing with the British empire and using nonviolent resistance plenty of blood spilled.

So I was pointing out the silly.

On a side note I have wanted to go to India for years and have been planning a trip for next year. Was gonna do the rent a motorcycle thing and takes three weeks to really see it if I did not die in a traffic wreck. Lord knows when I will be able to make that now considering the vacation fund has been almost drained and the idea of global travel doesn't sound great right now.

The Arabs fought with the British to drive out the Ottoman Turks. I don't think many Eruopean Jews fought with General Sir Edmund Allenby.

I haven't been to India. I did visit Sri Lanka back when it was called Ceylon. Exotic and fascinating.

 

[Dragon]

Dude all governments in the history of man were born in forking blood.

Rarely will anyone ever be taken over without a fight.

With the French in WW2 I can't tell you about a take over that people did not spill blood and die.

Yep and before you go there India did lots of bleeding just on one side.

So what is your point with that?

Calling the UN a mouthpiece for a terrorist organisation due to the fact that they are trying to ensure that Israel abides by international LAW.
I asume that the rule of law is what we all want?

 

[Joe Okc]

@V Chip is correct. Signs saying "Project funded by the American Recovery and Investment Act" are in no way comparable to a narcissistic individual demanding their name be put on the cheques.

I doubt very seriously that Trump demanded his name be on checks or he would hold up the payments... Cause holding up payments in a crisis that would definitely cost votes in November.

BTW- Shoulda put an American flag on there instead.. You know... Since it's coming from the US.

 

[Dragon]

Calling the UN a mouthpiece for a terrorist organisation due to the fact that they are trying to ensure that Israel abides by international LAW.
I asume that the rule of law is what we all want?

(And I'm not a "dude" )

 

[surada]

I doubt very seriously that Trump demanded his name be on checks or he would hold up the payments... Cause holding up payments in a crisis that would definitely cost votes in November.

BTW- Shoulda put an American flag on there instead.. You know... Since it's coming from the US.

Trump has remarked several times about what HE HAS GIVEN to Cuomo and the State of NY.. Its a safe bet that Trump wants Americans to think he is giving them the money.

 

[Dadsdream]

Nothing is black and white in the middle east. Most people forget that in the history of that area even Israel and its first government were born in blood.

Here is a very good article on this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...c811fe-b938-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html

The majority of the palestinian people have lived as refugees for 70 years now - many still in powerty in camps and yes the UN provides schools and medical services to those. Two wrongs never make a right and the way the Israel government have looked the other way while "settlers" occupied land outside the state of Israel and later in the name of the security of those same lawbreaking settlers have, annexated the occupated territories. And yes - the UN member states have been very critical towards Israels behaviour and only US vetos have prevented sanctions against that country.

Being critical against a country which breaks international law is NOT the same as being a mouthpiece for a terrorist organisation.

Hi Dragon,

I have a BA in History and I served with the US Marines, flying show the flag missions in helicopters off the coast of Beirut when the PLO moved in and took over. I trained on avionics with members of the Shah of Iran's air force and attended college with Iranian and Lebanese exiles.

You say that people forget he history of the area.

That's not the case in my case.

 

[surada]

Hi Dragon,

I have a BA in History and I served with the US Marines, flying show the flag missions in helicopters off the coast of Beirut when the PLO moved in and took over. I trained on avionics with members of the Shah of Iran's air force and attended college with Iranian and Lebanese exiles.

You say that people forget he history of the area.

That's not the case in my case.

Well, yeah... Lebanon's demographic was turned upside down overnight when Palestinian refugees were forced out in 1948, 1956, 1967.

How did you like Beirut? Did you stay at the Phoenicia or the St George? Did you see the refugee camps?

 

[Dadsdream]

Oh please. Israel helped found HAMAS. Most Palestinians opposed it and lobbied aggressively against its founding.. But, they recruited in the meanest and most impoverished camps. The Israelis wanted a foil to oppose the PLO.

Have you ever been to Palestine or visited any of the refugee camps in Lebanon or Jordan?

Have you ever flown as a door gunner in a US Marine Corps helicopter with a US flag painted on the side of it, with no ammunition in your machinegun (per orders from President Carter) with the PLO pointing Borfors cannons at you from the back of Datsun pickup trucks on the beaches of Beirut, Lebanon?

I have. In later years, they'd evacuate my dead comrades from the Marine Barracks in Beirut. Had I re-enlisted instead of getting out and going to college, I'd have been right there with them.

Do I feel survivor's guilt? No, but it does upset me when somebody gets presumptuous and tries to lecture me about Lebanon.

Nice talking with you Surda.

 

[surada]

Have you ever flown as a door gunner in a US Marine Corps helicopter with a US flag painted on the side of it, with no ammunition in your machinegun (per orders from President Carter) with the PLO pointing Borfors cannons at you from the back of Datsun pickup trucks on the beaches of Beirut, Lebanon?

I have. In later years, they'd evacuate my dead comrades from the Marine Barracks in Beirut. Had I re-enlisted instead of getting out and going to college, I'd have been right there with them.

Do I feel survivor's guilt? No, but it does upset me when somebody gets presumptuous and tries to lecture me about Lebanon.

Nice talking with you Surda.

I remember the attack on the Marine barracks.. Horrible.. a friend of mine, a Navy Flight surgeon was there. It was payback for the Sabra and Shatilla massacre when Ariel Sharon betrayed Reagan.

 

[Dadsdream]

There are probably also bills in congress to play tiddlywinks, but that doesn't mean that they will nor should pass. Trump and many Republicans want to retreat inside our borders, but the world has become linked, and it is dangerous to disengage. The WHO is very important at this point in time, and it is stupid to halt its funding. Tell me, do you think that is a wise move?

It's more dangerous to let the UN (with US funding) act as a mouthpiece for Chinese propaganda.
I've never seen anybody from WHO working to better the poor in my state, in my nation in my life.

 

[surada]

It's more dangerous to let the UN (with US funding) act as a mouthpiece for Chinese propaganda.
I've never seen anybody from WHO working to better the poor in my state, in my nation in my life.

The US isn't a third world country. Are you in Texas?


The WHO has played a leading role in several public health achievements, most notably the eradication of smallpox, the near-eradication of polio, and the development of an Ebola vaccine. Its current priorities include communicable diseases, particularly HIV/AIDS, Ebola, malaria and tuberculosis; non-communicable diseases such as heart disease and cancer; healthy diet, nutrition, and food security; occupational health; and substance abuse.

 

[Dadsdream]

Being critical against a country which breaks international law is NOT the same as being a mouthpiece for a terrorist organisation.

When the UN passes an international law is at odds with US laws and the UN accuses us of war crimes based on the international law which was created at the behest of a terrorist organization, then they're acting as a mouthpiece for that terrorist organization.

White Phosphorus Incendiary Weapons - US law says they are legal. The UN has declared them illegal.
For years, Hamas has been filing war crimes complaints against Israel for using them and us for providing them.

This is just one example of the UN painting us as the bad guys. What are we doing about it?
We're FUNDING THEM.

Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[surada]

When the UN passes an international law is at odds with US laws and the UN accuses us of war crimes based on the international law which was created at the behest of a terrorist organization, then they're acting as a mouthpiece for that terrorist organization.

White Phosphorus Incendiary Weapons - US law says they are legal. The UN has declared them illegal.
For years, Hamas has been filing war crimes complaints against Israel for using them and us for providing them.

This is just one example of the UN painting us as the bad guys. What are we doing about it?
We're FUNDING THEM.

Makes no sense whatsoever.

There was no HAMAS until the mid 1980s..

Americans don't need to worrry about the world court.. Bush passed the Bomb the Hague Act just before he invaded Iraq.

 

[Dadsdream]

Well, yeah... Lebanon's demographic was turned upside down overnight when Palestinian refugees were forced out in 1948, 1956, 1967.

How did you like Beirut? Did you stay at the Phoenicia or the St George? Did you see the refugee camps?

I saw the damage from the PLO invasion. I saw the beaches. I saw the PLO gunners in the back of Datsun pickup trucks manning their 40mm anti-aircraft Borfors cannons pointing them at me. Occasionally, they would "test fire" their weapons, you know, to see if we were awake and paying attention?

My stay there was limited to 30 day and a refugee camp would have been an improvement. Ah, but I was young and dumb!

 

[surada]

I saw the damage from the PLO invasion. I saw the beaches. I saw the PLO gunners in the back of Datsun pickup trucks manning their 40mm anti-aircraft Borfors cannons pointing them at me. Occasionally, they would "test fire" their weapons, you know, to see if we were awake and paying attention?

My stay there was limited to 30 day and a refugee camp would have been an improvement. Ah, but I was young and dumb!

View attachment 1337

Why would you expect people driven from their ancestral homeland to be accomodating?

 

[Zombiewoof]

Take it to PMs. We are getting far afield from coronavirus discussion here.

 

[samiam5211]

Hi Dragon,

I have a BA in History and I served with the US Marines, flying show the flag missions in helicopters off the coast of Beirut when the PLO moved in and took over. I trained on avionics with members of the Shah of Iran's air force and attended college with Iranian and Lebanese exiles.

You say that people forget he history of the area.

That's not the case in my case.

Stuff happened before you got there.

 

[Beach Friends]

I think this locks Trump into a spot on MT Rushmore. He is leaving no stone unturned.