All Things LGBTQ+ (18 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[MT15]

Okay, you are just playing games. We are discussing the anti-transgendered laws and you post a picture of a transgendered player and ask does it look fair. Be straight forward. You say you are not for the bill at all, but you did not come out and say it until now. What was your purpose? I am seriously curious what you were hoping to achieve?

I was pretty astounded to read that SS didn’t like the bills - after having this discussion with SS for quite a long time, that is the first time I’ve heard that for sure. That’s why I said I couldn’t figure it out in my earlier post, it just doesn’t add up.

 

[SystemShock]

Okay, you are just playing games. We are discussing the anti-transgendered laws and you post a picture of a transgendered player and ask does it look fair. Be straight forward. You say you are not for the bill at all, but you did not come out and say it until now. What was your purpose? I am seriously curious what you were hoping to achieve?

Tone it down. I am not Farb. My point is simply that there needs to be some sort of rules within athletic governing bodies (being school, olympic, professional) to protect the integrity of sports and more importantly females people born with ovaries/uteri from unfair competition - probably in the way of transgender sports leagues - so things like the NCAA div 1 swimming fiasco don't happen, or the India female ovaries/uteri team don't have to face a 230lb person, who I am very sure you find to be the epitome of femininity.

BTW, the thread's title is "all things LGBTQ+", not "discuss only the Texas bill".

But whatevs. We can't have nuanced conversations. We have to go all out GOP or all out woke. Nothing in between allowed.

 

[Sandman]

Tone it down. I am not Farb. My point is simply that there needs to be some sort of rules within athletic governing bodies (being school, olympic, professional) to protect the integrity of sports and more importantly females people born with ovaries/uteri from unfair competition - probably in the way of transgender sports leagues - so things like the NCAA div 1 swimming fiasco don't happen, or the India female ovaries/uteri team don't have to face a 230lb person, who I am very sure you find to be the epitome of femininity.

BTW, the thread's title is "all things LGBTQ+", not "discuss only the Texas bill".

But whatevs. We can't have nuanced conversations. We have to go all out GOP or all out woke. Nothing in between allowed.

It wasn’t a nuanced conversation. I was being straight-forward with you while you apparently played some game. To be honest, it looks like you tried to make an argument for the bill but knew that the bill is in reality is discriminatory. You left yourself an out when you were called on it. Had I not called you out on it, you could still be posting pics of transgenders in support of the bill. If you don’t like the way that sounds, don’t play these silly little games. “Man” up and own your position.

I know you will say, “I never said I was for the bill.” Taking you at your word that you are opposed to the bill, you still left yourself open to being called out as a bigot. That is what happens when you play these games rather than having an open an honest debate. You call it nuanced. I call it deceptive.

 

[SystemShock]

To be honest, it looks like you tried to make an argument for the bill

I did not. And no, I am not posting pictures in support of the bill. I never mentioned the bill. You injected the bill in your replies to me. Yet again, this thread is not just about the bill.

But I am not surprised by your response. It is the conditioning... I have an opinion in one particular subject in the entire transgender discussion that does not align with full compliance, therefore I am a transphobe supporting the GOP and their bill. Apparently not supporting a discriminatory bill and being protective of females cannot happen at the same time. If I don't think it is fair that the Lia Thompsons of the world can go from an at best mediocre swimmer in a men's swim team to an NCAA Women's Division 1 title, I must support a bill that bans transgender kids from playing sports. Makes sense...

Good to know that I am not only transphobic, but a bigot as well. Hey, I'm whitexican, and a descendant of the divine caste. Want to add racist too?

 

[Sandman]

I did not. And no, I am not posting pictures in support of the bill. I never mentioned the bill. You injected the bill in your replies to me. Yet again, this thread is not just about the bill.

But I am not surprised by your response. It is the conditioning... I have an opinion in one particular subject in the entire transgender discussion that does not align with full compliance, therefore I am a transphobe supporting the GOP and their bill. Apparently not supporting a discriminatory bill and being protective of females cannot happen at the same time. If I don't think it is fair that the Lia Thompsons of the world can go from an at best mediocre man swimmer to an NCAA Women's Division 1 title in 3 short years, I must support a bill that bans transgender kids from playing sports. Makes sense...

Good to know that I am not only transphobic, but a bigot as well. Hey, I'm whitexican, and a descendant of the divine caste. Want to add racist too?

People were talking about the bill and you come in and post those pics and ask “is this fair” and act all hurt because we took you at face value. I am telling you how you are coming across. Don’t like it? Stop acting the fool and playing games. Like I said, man up and be honest in your opinions. Now you are trying to act like a victim when you created the whole situation. You played the fool, so don’t be surprised when you are handed the jester hat to wear.

 

[MT15]

SS - honestly this thread has been going on for quite a while. You never once said you didn’t support the bills and that has been what people like me have been objecting to this whole time. Not once when I brought up these bills in response to you did you say you didn’t support the bills. You let everyone think you were fine with them. Sandman is right to call you out on this.

 

[SystemShock]

People were talking about the bill and you come in and post those pics and ask “is this fair” and act all hurt because we took you at face value. I am telling you how you are coming across. Don’t like it? Stop acting the fool and playing games. Like I said, man up and be honest in your opinions. Now you are trying to act like a victim when you created the whole situation. You played the fool, so don’t be surprised when you are handed the jester hat to wear.

People are talking about a lot of things on this thread: SCOTUS decisions, the Bible, the Catholic church, art defacing, marriage, adoption, police abuse, etc. etc. But I guess you are the thread's MC?

And in case you didn't notice, my original post was a reply to a post that had nothing to do with the bill.

And seriously? I didn't figure you for that type of poster, but I am not acting all hurt, I am not acting like a victim, I am not playing the fool, and I don't need to man up. I keep telling you my opinion, but you don't want to accept it. Looks like you want me to tell you I am all for this bill so you can chastise me and put me in a particular group for easy high-horsing and finger wagging.

Why is it so hard to understand that I am against discrimination (bill) but in favor of protecting females (not allowing mediocre men to become champion females to the detriment of biological females)?

 

[SystemShock]

SS - honestly this thread has been going on for quite a while. You never once said you didn’t support the bills and that has been what people like me have been objecting to this whole time. Not once when I brought up these bills in response to you did you say you didn’t support the bills. You let everyone think you were fine with them. Sandman is right to call you out on this.

As I explained above, this thread has seen discussions around many topics: SCOTUS decisions, the Bible, the Catholic church, art defacing, marriage, adoption, police abuse, etc. It is not a thread specifically about the bill. And in case you didn't notice either, my original post was a reply to a post that had nothing to do with the bill.

I didn't let anyone assume anything as much as you decided I was for the bill because of the pictures I posted in reply to a post that had nothing to do with the bill.

Also, I was asked directly abut the bill, and unlike you, I gave a straight answer: I am against it, no quotes around words, no tangents. But at the same time, I want to see females protected. I don't want to see mediocre-at-best athletes. Is it THAT hard to understand?

 

[Farb]

Lol. Let me guess, straight white christian males are the most marginalized in this society.

Yet, somehow you manage to find and post all kinds of media that repots on LGBTQ people in the most negative light possible. I've never seen shame work on any of you in the right wing, so what does it really matter?

Why does it matter? Because it shows a glaring flaw in one of the staples of our society and western civilization as a whole: A free and fair press.

 

[Farb]

While someone can be as fanatically devoted to their political ethos/leanings to mirror religion, at least the political stuff is usually grounded in things that are actually happening in real life and not based on a book whose origin is of debatable authenticity.

Anyway, the whole conservative/white/religious people are repressed argument is invoked so much to be laughable. Fox News, Rush Limbozo, Ben Shapiro, etc. have created this grievance culture. If conservatives and the hyper-religious are so oppressed why was Donald Trump elected President? There's also no shortage of right-wing/religious takes in the media or even entertainment industry. It's just that most of them are untalented/unfunny.

For the record, I think there are some issues with allowing transgender athletes to compete from a sheer pragmatic/physiological standpoint. I also don't necessarily think kids in the third grade or below need to know about sexuality. That said, on my list of 'give a farks,' it ranks way way way down there because I'm not overly obsessed with cultural/religious issues.

I have noticed that. It would be naïve of me to assume that everyone cared as passionately as I do about the gender theory push in our society. To me, it is one of the most important issues, but to each their own.

 

[Farb]

As I mentioned in another thread it is merely conservative virtue signaling by Ron Dumb-santis. Nearly everything he does is centered around pandering to the anti-woke crowd.

And he has my vote!

 

[MT15]

As I explained above, this thread has seen discussions around many topics: SCOTUS decisions, the Bible, the Catholic church, art defacing, marriage, adoption, police abuse, etc. It is not a thread specifically about the bill. And in case you didn't notice either, my original post was a reply to a post that had nothing to do with the bill.

I didn't let anyone assume anything as much as you decided I was for the bill because of the pictures I posted in reply to a post that had nothing to do with the bill.

Also, I was asked directly abut the bill, and unlike you, I gave a straight answer: I am against it, no quotes around words, no tangents. But at the same time, I want to see females protected. I don't want to see mediocre-at-best athletes. Is it THAT hard to understand?

It is hard to understand when you have total radio silence about the bills until you are specifically pinned down. When I opposed the bills and you responded with pictures of adults, I even said I was confused about you using examples of adults when the bills are targeted toward children.

So, whenever I communicate I do try to be transparent and it helps if you agree with something (like opposition to these bills) to say so. You could certainly tell I was thinking you agreed with the bills. Why not clarify that stance early in the discussion? It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that you were (at least a little bit) enjoying the confusion.

In the end, it doesn’t really matter, you can certainly choose your own way of expressing yourself.

 

[Farb]

This is straight up gaslighting. You‘ve learned your “activist” lessons well.

My ideology is not a religion, no matter how many times you try to say it is to excuse your own willingness to impose your religion on others.

How is my ideology being “forced” on anyone? Nobody is being forced to get an abortion, ever. Nobody is being forced to become trans or homosexual, ever. What you call “being forced” is simply being asked to admit that these things exist and these people deserve to be left alone and deserve respect. That is what feels like subjugation to you.

Your ‘side’ is the one all about forcing your religion and/or ideology on other people. That’s just a fact.

Well, it does seem this ideology 'forces' things on people that don't agree.

 

[Farb]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...uraged-daughter-transition-blame-suicide.html

We have not seen the end result of this gender ideology, but I am afraid this is a sampling.

 

[Farb]

Yes, I am a damn good parent. I will put my child up against anyone. I did not try to keep other people from discussing things with her. I wasn’t afraid of opposing views because hearing opposing views only strengthens us. To run away from it is cowardice. She is a stronger person today for hearing diverse opinions. I never had any problems discussing “tough issues” with my child. It is called parenting.

Conversion therapy is not mental health therapy. It tells kids that something is wrong with them when there isn’t. It leads to suicides, not mental health.

There are over 20 different types of inter-sex categories of people. So what you say isn’t the “obvious truth.”

I get why you say “man is man” and “woman is woman”without any thought or research. You can’t think outside of your own experience. Looks like your parents shielded you from opposing views and it has limited your view of the world. That is sad. However, you could choose now to broaden yourself, but you choose otherwise. That’s on you.

When you child was in elementary, did she believe in Santa? I ask because at that age, regardless of how awesome of a parent you are, their brains are not mature enough to handle gender theory or abstract thought.
You know how kids learn there are different people? The observe. They see differences in their classmates, teachers, people at walmart. The parents should handle that, not some wacky teacher that gets warm inside when he 'affirms' someone.

I did a pretty good job on my kid too. He knows all about gay people as he has been around them his entire life. He knows about trans, as he has been around 1 his entire life. He also knows about women, he has been around them his entire life. His mother is a woman believe it or not. So my son also knows that a trans woman is not woman.

To me, the fact that you have an issue with me saying 'men are men and women are women' "with out thought or research is just silly. Do I have to cite sources if I say 'water is wet'? No, because it is an obvious fact. If it is not obvious and you really think you are smarter than everyone, what is a woman? Surely you have put in thought and research so the answer should be easy for you.

 

[RobF]

Should anyone be genuinely interested in nuanced and rational takes around Lia Thomas, this article is pretty good:

The Trans Swimmer Who Won Too Much

Lia Thomas is not the first trans swimmer in the N.C.A.A., but her victories have put her at the center of a debate about trans athletes.

www.newyorker.com

 

[SystemShock]

It is hard to understand when you have total radio silence about the bills until you are specifically pinned down.

Is it a forum requirement that I must express an opinion on every single issue?

I wouldn't call someone asking me a question being "pinned down".

When I opposed the bills and you responded with pictures of adults,

So, yet again, my response with pictures was to a reply to a post that had nothing to do with the bill, and it wasn't you that I replied to.

I even said I was confused about you using examples of adults when the bills are targeted toward children.

... because THE PICTURES WHERE IN REPLY TO A POST THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BILL!!!

So, whenever I communicate I do try to be transparent and it helps if you agree with something (like opposition to these bills) to say so.

Transparent does not mean I have to fully agree or fully disagree with you.

You could certainly tell I was thinking you agreed with the bills.

Yeah... and no matter how many times I express my opinion...

Why not clarify that stance early in the discussion?

I didn't think it was necessary that I must clarify my stance on that bill, but I did, and yet...

It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that you were (at least a little bit) enjoying the confusion.

It is hard to avoid that conclusion when you are part of groupthink, yes.

In the end, it doesn’t really matter, you can certainly choose your own way of expressing yourself.

... as we all do.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

And he has my vote!

Naturally!