All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[insidejob]

Rhinos

Brought to you by the letter R.

 

[coldseat]

To me, the cowards are the ones that are afraid to stand up for their values and beliefs because of the fear of being shouted down and called 'bigot' or 'racist' because you don't believe the in alt-left radical push against reality. I know you disagree.

You have this idea in your head that there are all these people who are scared to "stand up for their values". There aren't. All of you guys that believe bigoted crap like you do shout it at the top of their lungs in every situation. You guys aren't scared to say whatever crap comes out of your mouths. We have ample evidence of this. It's just most people don't have the same values that you do and most people don't agree with you. That's why y'all have to be disingenuous about so much of what you all do.

Also, the people that oppose you and want to normalize LGBTQ relationships and people are standing up for their values and speaking up. Often while being shouted at by your kind and/or facing persecution from state legislatures and executives. We aren't scared either, and that right there probably pisses you off the most, because it wasn't always like that.

 

[MT15]

You have read the bill then?

That is how are system is designed to work. If the bill is unconstitutional, it will be challenged in court.

That has not been my experience in the 2 law suits I was kind of a part of. Granted, I was with/supporting the teacher against the super and the school board so that might be the difference. On the the other one, the teacher/district was sued by a parent/group and the school board covered all costs during the lawsuit.

Sure. But on your last personal attack, I agree with you. I won't change my mind on basic biological fact. I know some of yall are too far gone as well so my posts are mainly to make sure there is some level of reality to these radical left ideals and I hope that maybe I might make one person question the radical gender/race theory that is being forced down everyone's throat.

It’s pretty rich that you complain about ideology being forced on anyone, isn’t it? Are you so far gone that you cannot recognize this irony?

 

[SystemShock]

You are twisting - you’re defending bills

I am not doing such a thing. Please point out to me where am I defending any bill. Please!
Please stop making claims about me without proof.

If people are adult, there are all kinds of situations that cannot be answered with a yes or no answer,

... as there are all kinds of situations that can be answered with a yes or no answer as well.

and the fact that you are demanding such a simplistic answer is explicit proof of a “gotcha”. It’s a definitive example of one. It’s delusional to pretend otherwise.

I am demanding a simplistic answer to a simple proposition: look at the picture of the really big person running over the small person during a rugby match. Does it look like fair play to you?

It is indeed a very simple proposition, but you don't want to answer.

I don’t pretend I understand your motives in defending this. It’s probably better to just disengage.

Defending what?

 

[Sandman]

I am demanding a simplistic answer to a simple proposition: look at the picture of the really big person running over the small person during a rugby match. Does it look like fair play to you?

It is indeed a very simple proposition, but you don't want to answer.

The simple answer is no it doesn't "look" fair. Does that mean laws need to be passed to make you feel better that it is fair? As I brought up before with the pics of the man-children destroying other kids, no one is passing laws to prevent that "unfairness." So, the question to you is: Are these laws designed for "fair play?" If so, why not just say a player can't be "x" pounds heavier than the average weight of the other players. That would be a non-prejudicial manner of protecting smaller players. If that is the objective, that would be the language of the statute.

Instead, they are focused on the transgendered, not the size, which you seem to be focused on. Because the law focuses on the transgender (who may actually be smaller than the average size), rather than the size, wouldn't you agree that the law isn't concerned about safety but rather merely excluding transgendered? As written, a smaller transgendered person is prohibited from playing while Johnnie the Giant gets to keep on trucking kids in pee wee ball. Which one looks more unfair as an opponent, the 90-pound transgendered kid or the 6'4" 280 5th grader? If you cannot say it is the man-child, then you aren't looking for fairness. You are looking to exclude different kids. If you can admit it, but are still for this bill, then you are more like Farb than I hoped you were.

 

[Farb]

A real conservative is someone that lives his/her life and does not judge others how they live theirs. A real conservative is someone isn’t afraid that their child will be “indoctrinated” because I have raised my child to think for themselves rather than to blindly submit to the accepted authority. A real conservative may be heterosexual but understands that not everyone else is and students learning about how others live is not “indoctrination.” If you are concerned about you child being “turned” gay, your child is probably gay and just afraid to tell you. You’re probably cool with conversion therapy.

A real conservative reads the Constitution and understands that religion should not dictate what is taught in public school. A real conservative might be personally against abortion but will not force someone to have a baby because it is not body and not my decision to make.

A real conservative doesn’t have any issues with gay marriage because as long as it doesn’t affect others, I am not opposed to it. They live their life, and I live mine.

You don’t propose conservative values. You are a radical activist that tries to force your beliefs down someone’s throat. It it the antithesis of conservatism.

Are you on the conservative back board, I don't think I have seen you post there.

Congrats on your outstanding ability to teach your kindergarten aged child to think for themselves. I didn't think children that age had the ability for that level of critical thinking.

Still can't understand why the left wants to discuss sex and masturbation with children in a school setting.

Why do you think I have a problem with gay people getting married or being gay?

Are you talking about state mandated 'conversion' therapy or are you discussing voluntary mental health therapy?

We disagree on abortion.

No problem with gay marriage, never have. As you say, it doesn't have any effect on my life at all.

I think it is wild that I am a 'radical' because I say an obvious truth. What is so radical about saying men are men and women are women? Sounds like you hold the radical position in that debate.

but you do have it correct that I am an activist. I will own that and say thank you, it is nice to be acknowledged for my work!

 

[Farb]

It’s pretty rich that you complain about ideology being forced on anyone, isn’t it? Are you so far gone that you cannot recognize this irony?

I get it, but let me ask you a question, do you not see that your ideology is in fact a religion in itself and it is being forced upon those that don't want to 'worship' that way?

 

[Farb]

You have this idea in your head that there are all these people who are scared to "stand up for their values". There aren't. All of you guys that believe bigoted crap like you do shout it at the top of their lungs in every situation. You guys aren't scared to say whatever crap comes out of your mouths. We have ample evidence of this. It's just most people don't have the same values that you do and most people don't agree with you. That's why y'all have to be disingenuous about so much of what you all do.

Also, the people that oppose you and want to normalize LGBTQ relationships and people are standing up for their values and speaking up. Often while being shouted at by your kind and/or facing persecution from state legislatures and executives. We aren't scared either, and that right there probably pisses you off the most, because it wasn't always like that.

Then why when someone does speak out against the LGBTQ or really the trans movement, the media is all over it in an attempt to shame to person to get back in line?
The LGTB community is by far the least marginalized in this society. They are almost celebrated and have obtains celebrated status.

 

[coldseat]

Then why when someone does speak out against the LGBTQ or really the trans movement, the media is all over it in an attempt to shame to person to get back in line?
The LGTB community is by far the least marginalized in this society. They are almost celebrated and have obtains celebrated status.

Lol. Let me guess, straight white christian males are the most marginalized in this society.

Yet, somehow you manage to find and post all kinds of media that repots on LGBTQ people in the most negative light possible. I've never seen shame work on any of you in the right wing, so what does it really matter?

 

[SystemShock]

The simple answer is no it doesn't "look" fair.

Why do you put the word look in quotes?

As I said to another poster, I post those pics on other places asking the same question, does this look fair? If one removes the transgender context, I think common sense will tell you that a 230lb person going against a 130lb person in rugby is not fair. But as soon as the context is transgenderism, there are many people who will not be able to bring themselves to say that what they are seeing is not fair. They go in tangents telling me all about genders and sex and laws and stuff, but just can't bring themselves to say "it is not fair".

Even you, you didn't say "it is not fair", you said "it doesn't 'look' fair", with the work look in quotation marks.

Does that mean laws need to be passed to make you feel better that it is fair?

Why the animosity? Make me feel better? It is not about making me feel better. It is about fair play, and protecting the people who have been and continue to be treated unfairly because they are born with ovaries and uteri (I'd have said "because they are born women" or "because they are born female", but then I'd be bombarded with definitions of gender, sex, etc...)

As I brought up before with the pics of the man-children destroying other kids, no one is passing laws to prevent that "unfairness."

I agree. Someone should do something about that too. Not necessarily the federal government; the governing athletic body will suffice.

So, the question to you is: Are these laws designed for "fair play?"

If you are referring to the laws the GOP is pushing, no, they are not designed for fair play.

If so, why not just say a player can't be "x" pounds heavier than the average weight of the other players. That would be a non-prejudicial manner of protecting smaller players.

I don't know about non-prejudicial, but yes, it would make for fairer play.

If that is the objective, that would be the language of the statute.

You have been discussing the statutes with other posters; I am not making any arguments about the statutes.

Instead, they are focused on the transgendered, not the size, which you seem to be focused on.

It surely seems (or is) that way.

Because the law focuses on the transgender (who may actually be smaller than the average size), rather than the size, wouldn't you agree that the law isn't concerned about safety but rather merely excluding transgendered?

I would agree, yes.

As written, a smaller transgendered person is prohibited from playing while Johnnie the Giant gets to keep on trucking kids in pee wee ball. Which one looks more unfair as an opponent, the 90-pound transgendered kid or the 6'4" 280 5th grader? If you cannot say it is the man-child, then you aren't looking for fairness. You are looking to exclude different kids. If you can admit it, but are still for this bill, then you are more like Farb than I hoped you were.

I am not for that bill at all. I am very aware the GOP is merely trying to exclude transgender people, not promoting fair play.

 

[Sandman]

Congrats on your outstanding ability to teach your kindergarten aged child to think for themselves. I didn't think children that age had the ability for that level of critical thinking.

Are you talking about state mandated 'conversion' therapy or are you discussing voluntary mental health therapy?

I think it is wild that I am a 'radical' because I say an obvious truth. What is so radical about saying men are men and women are women? Sounds like you hold the radical position in that debate.

but you do have it correct that I am an activist. I will own that and say thank you, it is nice to be acknowledged for my work!

Yes, I am a damn good parent. I will put my child up against anyone. I did not try to keep other people from discussing things with her. I wasn’t afraid of opposing views because hearing opposing views only strengthens us. To run away from it is cowardice. She is a stronger person today for hearing diverse opinions. I never had any problems discussing “tough issues” with my child. It is called parenting.

Conversion therapy is not mental health therapy. It tells kids that something is wrong with them when there isn’t. It leads to suicides, not mental health.

There are over 20 different types of inter-sex categories of people. So what you say isn’t the “obvious truth.”

I get why you say “man is man” and “woman is woman”without any thought or research. You can’t think outside of your own experience. Looks like your parents shielded you from opposing views and it has limited your view of the world. That is sad. However, you could choose now to broaden yourself, but you choose otherwise. That’s on you.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Why do you think I have a problem with gay people getting married or being gay?

No problem with gay marriage, never have. As you say, it doesn't have any effect on my life at all.

So you don't have a problem with gay people, or 'being gay" (do you mean sex, acting/sounding effeminate or black leather arse-less chaps?)

You don't have a problem with gay marriage or gay parents

But you do have a problem with children knowing any of those things exist?

 

[Sandman]

Why do you put the word look in quotes?

As I said to another poster, I post those pics on other places asking the same question, does this look fair? If one removes the transgender context, I think common sense will tell you that a 230lb person going against a 130lb person in rugby is not fair. But as soon as the context is transgenderism, there are many people who will not be able to bring themselves to say that what they are seeing is not fair. They go in tangents telling me all about genders and sex and laws and stuff, but just can't bring themselves to say "it is not fair".

Even you, you didn't say "it is not fair", you said "it doesn't 'look' fair", with the work look in quotation marks.


Why the animosity? Make me feel better? It is not about making me feel better. It is about fair play, and protecting the people who have been and continue to be treated unfairly because they are born with ovaries and uteri (I'd have said "because they are born women" or "because they are born female", but then I'd be bombarded with definitions of gender, sex, etc...)


I agree. Someone should do something about that too. Not necessarily the federal government; the governing athletic body will suffice.

If you are referring to the laws the GOP is pushing, no, they are not designed for fair play.

I don't know about non-prejudicial, but yes, it would make for fairer play.


You have been discussing the statutes with other posters; I am not making any arguments about the statutes.


It surely seems (or is) that way.

I would agree, yes.


I am not for that bill at all. I am very aware the GOP is merely trying to exclude transgender people, not promoting fair play.

Okay, you are just playing games. We are discussing the anti-transgendered laws and you post a picture of a transgendered player and ask does it look fair. Be straight forward. You say you are not for the bill at all, but you did not come out and say it until now. What was your purpose? I am seriously curious what you were hoping to achieve?

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

I get it, but let me ask you a question, do you not see that your ideology is in fact a religion in itself and it is being forced upon those that don't want to 'worship' that way?

While someone can be as fanatically devoted to their political ethos/leanings to mirror religion, at least the political stuff is usually grounded in things that are actually happening in real life and not based on a book whose origin is of debatable authenticity.

Anyway, the whole conservative/white/religious people are repressed argument is invoked so much to be laughable. Fox News, Rush Limbozo, Ben Shapiro, etc. have created this grievance culture. If conservatives and the hyper-religious are so oppressed why was Donald Trump elected President? There's also no shortage of right-wing/religious takes in the media or even entertainment industry. It's just that most of them are untalented/unfunny.

For the record, I think there are some issues with allowing transgender athletes to compete from a sheer pragmatic/physiological standpoint. I also don't necessarily think kids in the third grade or below need to know about sexuality. That said, on my list of 'give a farks,' it ranks way way way down there because I'm not overly obsessed with cultural/religious issues.

 

[brandon]

The bill simply says, no teaching of gender theory to 7 year olds. That is it.

that proves you didn't read it, you just take the narrative as face value.

I'd say @Farb really took down @Farb's argument.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Does anyone know what specifically was happening in K-3 that even led to this bill in the first place?

To me this seems like the Trans Bathroom craze from a few years ago (which seems to have disappeared), manufactured outrage of “won’t someone think of the children!?” that only exists to rile people up
==================================

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — In another clash between President Joe Biden’s administration and Florida Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, U.S. Education Secretary Miguel Cardona spoke with LGBTQ students to say the federal government supports them even if the governor does not.

Cardona's call Thursday with students, parents and teachers was a response to Florida legislation opponents call the “don't say gay” bill, which forbids instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity in kindergarten through third grade. The Legislature passed the bill and DeSantis is expected to sign it.

“The goal here is not to create division. We just want these kids to be able go to school, learn, get the support that they need. All parents want that for their children,” Cardona said in a phone interview Friday. “We want to support all students, including our gay and transgender students, and they needed to hear that directly from me.”

The “don't say gay" bill was one of several DeSantis pushed during the legislative session that many saw as a culture war he was creating to galvanize a conservative base as he considers running for president in 2024.

The bill states: “Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.” Parents would be able to sue districts over violations.

DeSantis has been outspoken in his support, saying that as a father of three young children, he doesn't want them to be “sexualized” in kindergarte-n.

“We would say to Secretary Cardona the same thing we would say to anyone else with concerns about the bill — they should read it carefully in its final form, and not be misled by false media narratives,” DeSantis spokeswoman Christina Pushaw said in an email. “Developmentally appropriate education, which means no sex and gender theory instruction in grades K-3, promotes kids’ emotional well being.".............

MSN

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

As I mentioned in another thread it is merely conservative virtue signaling by Ron Dumb-santis. Nearly everything he does is centered around pandering to the anti-woke crowd.

 

[MT15]

I get it, but let me ask you a question, do you not see that your ideology is in fact a religion in itself and it is being forced upon those that don't want to 'worship' that way?

This is straight up gaslighting. You‘ve learned your “activist” lessons well.

My ideology is not a religion, no matter how many times you try to say it is to excuse your own willingness to impose your religion on others.

How is my ideology being “forced” on anyone? Nobody is being forced to get an abortion, ever. Nobody is being forced to become trans or homosexual, ever. What you call “being forced” is simply being asked to admit that these things exist and these people deserve to be left alone and deserve respect. That is what feels like subjugation to you.

Your ‘side’ is the one all about forcing your religion and/or ideology on other people. That’s just a fact.