All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Paul]

It is controversial because a lot of people are currently using statements like this to deny the rights of people who don’t fit into their defined boxes. They are using these types of statements to demonize them, they call them freaks, they are murdered at a rate above what should be expected due to their numbers in society. They are trying to legislate where they go to the bathroom, whether they can serve in the military. Just basically trying to deny them their rights.

It may be ignorant, but that is where we are.

You are correct about discrimination. However, we cannot leave behind reason just like that. The existence of two biological sexes does not deny the plight and validity of the Trans, Binary, Asexual, etc people.

BTW, I have seen plenty that can distinguish the difference between sex and gender. I do not see a problem here. Trans women have been going to the ladies room for years and no one blinked an eye. It only became a controversy when it received massive publicity.

 

[SystemShock]

Down Syndrome is a chromosomal medical disorder and is not normal.

Guys, why are we bringing up congenital medical issues in this discussion? That does not change the fact that we have two biological sexes. Why is the concept of two biological sexes controversial?

Well, this guy brought it up as a reply to a post about sex chromosomes. If we have no problem calling one unusual chromosome condition a disorder, why are we so against calling another chromosome condition a disorder?

 

[JRad]

It really rustles people’s jimmies that someone may be different than them, doesn‘t it?

 

[Optimus Prime]

It really rustles people’s jimmies that someone may be different than them, doesn‘t it?

The cause of so much discrimination of any kind against any group comes down to one word

Normal

Anything that is not normal is abnormal

and anything that is abnormal is bad

and anyone who does abnormal things is also bad

 

[MT15]

Actually, I think a lot of people with Down’s do object to being considered a “disorder”, System.

 

[SystemShock]

Actually, I think a lot of people with Down’s do object to being considered a “disorder”, System.

Yet, Down's syndrome is truly a disorder, in that the extra chromosome disrupts the order of chromosome pairing.

 

[Paul]

The cause of so much discrimination of any kind against any group comes down to one word

Normal

Anything that is not normal is abnormal

and anything that is abnormal is bad

and anyone who does abnormal things are also bad

A smart person with genius IQ is markedly abnormal. A gifted musician like Beethoven who likely had perfect pitch is highly abnormal. Exceedingly good looking people are abnormal (most people have average looks).

Being out of the norm is often a good thing.

 

[SystemShock]

It really rustles people’s jimmies that someone may be different than them, doesn‘t it?

... or that someone may have a different opinion on a subject, apparently.

 

[SystemShock]

The cause of so much discrimination of any kind against any group comes down to one word

Normal

Anything that is not normal is abnormal

and anything that is abnormal is bad

and anyone who does abnormal things are also bad

Just like the cause of much outrage is the inability of some to engage in an intellectual conversation without crying discrimination..

 

[MT15]

Acknowledging that attitudes and words do bring about discrimination and that words can and do influence how people are treated isn’t “crying” System.

Calling it “crying” is just another way to establish your disdain for the population we are discussing, much like the way Paul keeps adding multiple pluses to the acronym.

I really don’t expect a response. Just wanted you both to know it’s noted. And not surprising.

 

[Paul]

Acknowledging that attitudes and words do bring about discrimination and that words can and do influence how people are treated isn’t “crying” System.

Calling it “crying” is just another way to establish your disdain for the population we are discussing, much like the way Paul keeps adding multiple pluses to the acronym.

I really don’t expect a response. Just wanted you both to know it’s noted. And not surprising.

Sorry, about the plus sign. I thought it was more inclusive. I

 

[SystemShock]

Acknowledging that attitudes and words do bring about discrimination and that words can and do influence how people are treated isn’t “crying” System.

Calling it “crying” is just another way to establish your disdain for the population we are discussing, much like the way Paul keeps adding multiple pluses to the acronym.

I really don’t expect a response. Just wanted you both to know it’s noted. And not surprising.

Well, you are getting one. And the response is: I rest my case. I feel no disdain whatsoever for anyone, yet you accuse me of it because I don't 100% agree with your point of view. Kind of reminds me of the youtuber who claimed men who don't date transgender women are transphobic.

As for Paul's use of multiple plus signs... your response reminds me of the responses I got when I took the list of all genders NYC recognizes and changed the plus sign for the initials of every gender outside of lesbian, gay, bi, trans, and queer.

 

[DaveXA]

The cause of so much discrimination of any kind against any group comes down to one word

Normal

Anything that is not normal is abnormal

and anything that is abnormal is bad

and anyone who does abnormal things are also bad

Who said anything abnormal is bad?

 

[V Chip]

Sorry, about the plus sign. I thought it was more inclusive. I

Hit send too soon?

 

[MT15]

System, it’s not because you disagree with me, I can actually handle that pretty well. It’s because of your attitude. But you can believe whatever you want to about me, obviously.

 

[JRad]

Hit send too soon?

Inclusive of everything except your entire post, Paul

 

[SystemShock]

System, it’s not because you disagree with me, I can actually handle that pretty well. It’s because of your attitude. But you can believe whatever you want to about me, obviously.

My attitude? What is my attitude?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Well, this guy brought it up as a reply to a post about sex chromosomes. If we have no problem calling one unusual chromosome condition a disorder, why are we so against calling another chromosome condition a disorder?

"This guy"? I don't even get a name?

To answer your question is that the term disorder often carries a value judgement on it when discussed outside medical circles, and we know that different human conditions get labeled a disorder and then are no longer labeled a disorder. Like homosexuality is no longer listed as a disorder. Or being left handed. And now being transgender is no longer labeled a mental health disorder either.

I'm not aware that it's labeled a chromosomal disorder either.

Basically conditions get labeled a disorder based on how much they disrupt a persons ability to function. A well adjusted transgender person can function perfectly well in society, so why would it be called a disorder?

Look I get where you're going with asking for a definition, and the answer is there isn't a clean one. You've seen in this very thread that people make comments about a 'real man' when referring to behaviors and not biology. And we can see where people's biology isn't exactly clear cut.

Gender usually refers to the social construct and sex usually refers to biological markers. I'm generally of the opinion we'd be better off getting rid of gender as a social construct because pretty much everyone who isn't a total butt crevasse is non-binary... and in a normal distribution of traits, there are huge numbers of AFABs who are more "masculine" than a huge number of AMAB's. So, in a society where people are free to act the way they want, the gender spectrum becomes less useful. But that isn't likely to happen anytime soon.