All Things LGBTQ+ (10 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Farb]

So you realize that this wouldn’t affect any trans athletes until they are at least 16, and most probably 18 yo? Hormones aren’t given to kids younger than 16 ever, and generally not until 18.

What about blockers, when are those given?

 

[MT15]

What about blockers, when are those given?

Those are given after the onset of puberty - but they wouldn’t confer any physical advantage for sports. They’re not hormones - they block hormones.

 

[V Chip]

No. If anyone is taking hormones, then you don't get to participate in sports. One's personal decision has real world effects.

Well that’s just ridiculous.

 

[V Chip]

Want to know why the only version people have an issue with it? Because if a trans man competes against a male, they will more than not lose. Why is it almost the exact opposite for trans women?

That’s not true. Imagine most trans women competing against cisgender women — most couldn’t hold a candle to the women who are into athletics and training, at almost any level. It would be only a very very few trans women who could still compete against the better cisgender women in athletics at all, much less “more than not lose.” Yes there are cases where that happens, but in very few sports and rarely at a level that would really make a difference (a high school track meet for instance). And as the studies posted earlier (I think it was @RobF who posted it) showed after 2 years of hormone suppressive therapy there is little difference in performance. There might be some competitions where it would make a difference, but rather than ban all trans athletes at all levels, why not simply address those issues in those competitions?

 

[MT15]

completely agree with V here. Instead of trying to ban a whole group of people for this, just deal individually with the few problems that arise. Not to mention these all-encompassing bans will just have the effect of stigmatizing and punishing children who want to just play sports with their friends.

The right wing is just all about controlling everything according to their rather incomplete knowledge. Just remember the R lawmaker who specifically wrote a ban on abortions to treat ectopic pregnancy into his stupid bill - and then when women questioned him, he said that wouldn’t prevent women from being treated for ectopic pregnancy, they just couldn’t have any sort of treatment that sacrificed the embryo. There aren’t enough facepalm emojis for this idiot.

 

[Farb]

Well that’s just ridiculous.

why?

 

[Farb]

That’s not true. Imagine most trans women competing against cisgender women — most couldn’t hold a candle to the women who are into athletics and training, at almost any level. It would be only a very very few trans women who could still compete against the better cisgender women in athletics at all, much less “more than not lose.” Yes there are cases where that happens, but in very few sports and rarely at a level that would really make a difference (a high school track meet for instance). And as the studies posted earlier (I think it was @RobF who posted it) showed after 2 years of hormone suppressive therapy there is little difference in performance. There might be some competitions where it would make a difference, but rather than ban all trans athletes at all levels, why not simply address those issues in those competitions?

Thomas was ranked like 400th or something nationally in mens swimming, he is what, 1 or 2 at this point in womens (if he is 1, then I think that other ivy league guy is ahead of him in womens). What about the high school trans boys. They were average and then champs as women.

A boys soccer team can beat the the US womens team. The William sisters lost to a very average male player. Both of them.
No matter how bad you want this to be true to 'own the cons' doesn't make it so. In reality, it is silly.

 

[Farb]

completely agree with V here. Instead of trying to ban a whole group of people for this, just deal individually with the few problems that arise. Not to mention these all-encompassing bans will just have the effect of stigmatizing and punishing children who want to just play sports with their friends.

The right wing is just all about controlling everything according to their rather incomplete knowledge. Just remember the R lawmaker who specifically wrote a ban on abortions to treat ectopic pregnancy into his stupid bill - and then when women questioned him, he said that wouldn’t prevent women from being treated for ectopic pregnancy, they just couldn’t have any sort of treatment that sacrificed the embryo. There aren’t enough facepalm emojis for this idiot.

Are participation in sports a right now?

Again, the lefts main arguments is Conservatives are bad, mean, not very good people despite reality of the situation.

 

[MT15]

So that’s a straw man, I never said they were a right, and you know that.

I said that these arbitrary laws preventing trans children from participating in sports will do nothing except punish these children.

 

[SystemShock]

Do you support making trans men compete in female sports competitions even after receiving hormone therapy?

That presents a different issue, in that the hormone therapy involves a performance enhancing substance.

 

[SystemShock]

Why can’t they treat trans athletes the same as non-trans athletes? I mean let’s focus on women’s athletics, since that’s apparently the only version of trans athletes anyone seems to have an issue with.

I'll say it with pictures:

If a non-trans female is competing in an athletic event and is found with elevated levels of testosterone, do they allow that female to compete? Non-trans women have been banned from competitions due to high testosterone levels (rightly or wrongly), so why can’t the same be done for trans women? If a trans woman doesn’t exceed the threshold, why not let them compete?

Testosterone is a controlled substance in sports. If a female (or however you want to call someone who was born with ovaries and a uterus (apparently we don't a single word for it anymore because... I digress...) has too high a level, I guess that uterus carrying person is SOL. It's not like we don't already separate athletes along other innate physical characteristics and have no issue with it; we even consider that fair. Do you think it is discrimination that in horse racing no one will hire anyone past 5'6" and ~150lbs to ride race horses? Do you think weight classes in boxing are fair; or should we just have 1 division?

 

[SystemShock]

Yes, and? Sometimes your posts are hard to decipher.
So if someone genuinely gets the idea that you are transphobic, that could be understandable. You seemed to me to be saying that nobody should say the word :transphobic: to anyone else in the post I quoted. So, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying?

So, let me ask you:

Which post of mine gives you the idea that I have a persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of transgender people?

Where do I state that no one should use the word?

 

[Optimus Prime]

NSFW

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I am lost.................

Sorry, couldn't help myself:

 

[MT15]

I'll say it with pictures:

Testosterone is a controlled substance in sports. If a female (or however you want to call someone who was born with ovaries and a uterus (apparently we don't a single word for it anymore because... I digress...) has too high a level, I guess that uterus carrying person is SOL. It's not like we don't already separate athletes along other innate physical characteristics and have no issue with it; we even consider that fair. Do you think it is discrimination that in horse racing no one will hire anyone past 5'6" and ~150lbs to ride race horses? Do you think weight classes in boxing are fair; or should we just have 1 division?

These laws are aimed at children, right? The laws that are being passed so gleefully in R states?

I don’t think anyone has denied that there could be issues in some cases where we have adults who have clearly gone through puberty and then transitioned. But if what V Chip found is correct, after two years of hormone therapy the physical advantage is lost. I don’t see why we have to pass laws concerning banning elementary school children from participating in casual sports. Or why we cannot allow individual cases to be dealt with in a common sense manner.

 

[MT15]

So, let me ask you:

Which post of mine gives you the idea that I have a persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of transgender people?

Where do I state that no one should use the word?

I quoted the post, I don’t think it’s productive to go over it any further, but I didn’t say that. You were complaining about the use of the word “transphobic” though. It’s not that big of a deal, imo.

 

[Farb]

NSFW

Why is so important to teach 5 year olds about gender theory? It is just creepy and gross. Any elementary teacher that feels the need to teach or discuss sexual topics with their students should not be teaching and should be monitored.

 

[samiam5211]

Why is so important to teach 5 year olds about gender theory? It is just creepy and gross. Any elementary teacher that feels the need to teach or discuss sexual topics with their students should not be teaching and should be monitored.

Why is it creepy and gross?

5 year old s need to know enough about sex that they can tell when they are being abused.