All Things LGBTQ+ (3 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[insidejob]

I don't get it.

Of course you don't.

 

[Optimus Prime]

We'll see how this case turns out

I think there was a similar case ages ago (25 or more years) where a teacher refused to call a student by his converted Muslim name

I also seem to recall a local story (also decades ago) of a student who went by his middle name but the teacher refused to call him that and just used his given first name

And is calling someone something other than what they asked to be called a first amendment issue?
======================

Last spring, a math teacher at a middle school in Fort Riley, Kan., called a student “miss” to get the student’s attention at the end of class, court records state.

After class, another classmate emailed the teacher, Pamela Ricard, to let her know that the student now used he/him pronouns and a different first name.

But the next day, when Ricard used the student’s last name — avoiding the new name or any pronouns at all — the classmate grew frustrated, leaving a note on Ricard’s desk accusing the teacher of being “transphobic.”

The note ended with a remark on the classmate’s own gender identity: “my pronouns are he/they btw.”

In a lawsuit, Ricard — who is Christian — says she was uncomfortable with referring to the students by names and pronouns that were different from what was listed in the district’s enrollment system. After some disagreement with school officials on how to handle the situation, Ricard was suspended and later issued a written reprimand for her refusal to comply with the district’s policies on diversity and inclusion.

Now, Ricard is suing Geary County Schools Unified School District board members, the superintendent and Fort Riley Middle School’s principal, alleging that they violated her First Amendment rights by forcing her to use language and implementing policies that breached her personal and religious beliefs.

“Ms. Ricard believes that God created human beings as either male or female, that this sex is fixed in each person from the moment of conception, and that it cannot be changed, regardless of an individual person’s feelings, desires, or preferences,” states the complaint, which was recently filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Kansas.

“Any policy that requires Ms. Ricard to refer to a student by a gendered, nonbinary, or plural pronoun (e.g., he/him, she/her, they/them, zhe/zher, etc.) or salutation (Mr., Miss, Ms.) or other gendered language that is different from the student’s biological sex actively violates Ms. Ricard’s religious beliefs.”

Ricard alleges that she was unjustly suspended and reprimanded for the incidents involving the two students, despite the school and the district having no “formal policy regarding student preferred name and pronoun use at the time she was suspended and reprimanded.”

Ricard also claims school officials have denied her religious accommodations............

A Christian teacher was suspended for refusing to call students by the pronouns they use. Now she is suing.

www.msn.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

has happened before
=================

A Loudoun County Public Schools teacher is suing the school district after he was placed on paid leave and barred from school grounds for refusing to address transgender students by their chosen names and pronouns.

Physical education instructor Tanner Cross of Leesburg Elementary School declared he would never “affirm that a biological boy can be a girl, and vice versa” during a Loudoun County School Board meeting in late May. Cross said his strong Christian faith drove him to the refusal, insisting that using transgender students’ selected pronouns and names amounts to “lying to a child . . . abuse to a child . . . and it’s sinning against our God.”

Cross was speaking against a school policy, still in the draft phase, that would require Loudoun staffers to use the names and pronouns that reflect students’ gender identities. One School Board member recently said the policy is meant to prevent children from feeling isolated and marginalized for their differences......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/transgender-pronouns-loudoun-teacher-lawsuit/2021/06/01/ede07b40-c33d-11eb-9a8d-f95d7724967c_story.html

 

[MT15]

I guess I feel the same way I felt about the county clerk in KY (?) who refused to issue same sex marriage licenses - do your job the way your bosses ask you to do it. If doing your job violates some belief system, find another job. It’s not the school’s place to bend their policies for every religious belief that’s out there. Maybe these teachers shouldn’t be teaching in public schools.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I do wonder if there are any reports on people (especially minors) who've said "I identify with this gender" who went through the transition process , name change and dress, or further with drugs and surgery, who ended up regretting it?

"It was just a phase, I'm actually my birth gender"

I've never read anything like that, if it's happened at all I'd guess that it's a small percentage

 

[MT15]

Considering the obstacles that are placed by society in doing that sort of change, I would think the person would have to be extremely motivated to do so.

 

[Farb]

Do you support making trans men compete in female sports competitions even after receiving hormone therapy?

No. If anyone is taking hormones, then you don't get to participate in sports. One's personal decision has real world effects.

 

[Farb]

How could you live in an area and not have a rough idea of the racial make-up of that area? Or are you going to go with the old trope most often said by people who are painfully aware of skin color - “I don’t see color, I just see a person?”

I don't know how many people live in my city or county for that matter. It is pretty unimportant in my day to day life.

 

[Farb]

This is how it started, remember?:



Do think that just might have to do with their constituency? Knowing that, aren't you a bit curious what percentage of black lives that matter live in Alabama vs. white lives that matter?

I am lost, do what?

 

[Optimus Prime]

"We are people and deserve to be respected and to be able to live our lives in peace"

and now to present the other side of that argument
======================================

A Minnesota school board has said it will hear a presentation from "the other side" after a talk was given in January by OutFront Minnesota, an LGBTQ+ advocacy group.

At a board meeting for the Becker School District earlier this month, it was confirmed that a second presentation would be made on March 14 by the Minnesota Child Protection League (MNCPL), an organization formed by established anti-LGBT activists, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

"...The response from the kids is they were glad to have [OutFront], but the response from the school board then was right away, they needed to hear the other side of this," Becker High School social studies teacher and Gay Straight Alliance advisor Heather Abrahamson told the St. Cloud Times. "I don't understand how you could think there's another side to human rights, but they claim that there is.".........

Minnesota students and teachers sound alarm bells as school board approves anti-LGBTQ+ presentation

www.msn.com

 

[MT15]

No. If anyone is taking hormones, then you don't get to participate in sports. One's personal decision has real world effects.

Just a really shirtty take.

 

[Farb]

So...sports are important for children, but not trans children. Eff those kids. Right?

If the competition is so important, then allow all children to compete. If that is why high school sports are so important, then you would be in favor of more inclusion, but here you are saying a group of kids shouldn't be allowed to compete in these important sports. Why? Let's just be honest...it's bigotry. You can hide it behind the Bible, wrap it in a flag, or conceal it behind a veil of a claim of "fairness," but at the heart of it, it is just bigotry.

It is reality not bigotry.
What about those kids that work hard to compete and get blown out by a biological male. What is she supposed to think? "well, that sucked but at least Tommy got to live his truth by beating my arse in the race." Is that also bigotry? Just curious.

Why do these 'trans-kids' get to destroy sports for all the other kids? And, I think 'trans-kids' need medical help, not to be enabling. There are a lot of kids that don't get to play sports. Should be change the game for allow for running backs to use motorized wheel chairs in college football so everyone gets to play?

Again, decisions that affect everyone should not be made based on 'feelings' and emotion.

I was not aware

 

[Farb]

Farb, if you're just going to imagine what I've said in favour of ignoring the contents of the post you're replying to, you don't actually need any of us for that. You can just go play with yourself.

How can we have a real discussion if we can't even agree on the words we use. You say trans women are women but can't even say what a woman is. I know language moves fast but is the basic definition not important? You know my position, I am simply asking yours

Can you tell me what a woman is? Do you support 'trans women competing against biological women?

 

[Farb]

Why can’t they treat trans athletes the same as non-trans athletes? I mean let’s focus on women’s athletics, since that’s apparently the only version of trans athletes anyone seems to have an issue with. If a non-trans female is competing in an athletic event and is found with elevated levels of testosterone, do they allow that female to compete? Non-trans women have been banned from competitions due to high testosterone levels (rightly or wrongly), so why can’t the same be done for trans women? If a trans woman doesn’t exceed the threshold, why not let them compete?

Men and women are built different as well, not just chemistry.

Want to know why the only version people have an issue with it? Because if a trans man competes against a male, they will more than not lose. Why is it almost the exact opposite for trans women?

 

[Farb]

I do wonder if there are any reports on people (especially minors) who've said "I identify with this gender" who went through the transition process , name change and dress, or further with drugs and surgery, who ended up regretting it?

"It was just a phase, I'm actually my birth gender"

I've never read anything like that, if it's happened at all I'd guess that it's a small percentage

I have read that 60% to 90% turn out to be 'typical gay or lesbian' as they grow to adulthood.

But just to be safe, lets start hormone therapy on a confused 12 year old.

 

[Farb]

Just a really shirtty take.

Why? Generally, athletes taking hormones are usually blocked from competition unless you are in an MLB homerun competition in the last 90s.

 

[Farb]

https://nypost.com/2022/03/09/serial-killer-83-eyed-in-case-of-dismembered-body-found-in-nyc/

An 83-year-old serial killer who spent the bulk of her life behind bars for killing two ex-girlfriends is being eyed in the murder of another woman whose dismembered body turned up in Brooklyn last week, The Post has learned.

Harvey Marcelin, who identifies as a transgender woman, was charged last week with concealment of a human corpse after she was allegedly caught on surveillance video dumping human remains near her apartment, according to sources and court records.

A search warrant turned up “a human head” in Marcelin’s home in Cypress Hills, according to a criminal complaint, and sources said cops also recovered electric saws she bought at Home Depot.

This story has it all. Why would they let a serial killer out at all? Our criminal justice system is really failing us citizens.

 

[MT15]

Why? Generally, athletes taking hormones are usually blocked from competition unless you are in an MLB homerun competition in the last 90s.

So you realize that this wouldn’t affect any trans athletes until they are at least 16, and most probably 18 yo? Hormones aren’t given to kids younger than 16 ever, and generally not until 18.