All Things LGBTQ+ (3 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Paul]

Caitlyn Jenner isn't a woman, so why would Caitlyn's times be changed to the women's category?

Who here believes trans women are real women and should be allowed to compete in women's sports? I'm guessing there are quite a few people here who don't think they should, but are too scared to give an honest answer.

If a biological man believes he is a woman that is no big deal and has been around forever. If a biological woman thinks she is a dude, no big deal either. I am perfectly OK with treating people according to whatever gender preference they have. There is no harm here. BTW, all of us remember Pat from Saturday Night Life.

Watch Saturday Night Live Clip: It's Pat: Birthday Party - NBC.com

Watch Saturday Night Live highlight: It's Pat: Birthday Party - NBC.com

www.nbc.com

I guess those skits would not be allowed today.

LGBTQIA++++ harm no one unless a dude competes with women in sports where physical strength is an advantage. This is a tough one guys since no one wants to be called transphobic. This is another dilemma that has no easy solution.

 

[SystemShock]

@CoolBrees @samiam5211 @coldseat

Out of curiosity, how do you define "woman"?

 

[SystemShock]

... and in the spirit of Dawkins' mind exercise turned racist/homophobic rant by the woke patrol, here's a hypothetical:

How would you feel if a white kid born in South Africa, who is a naturalized U.S. citizen, was awarded a scholarship meant for African Americans?

 

[Paul]

@CoolBrees @samiam5211 @coldseat

Out of curiosity, how do you define "woman"?

Biological woman XX chromosomes
Transgender woman XY chromosomes.

There are two definitions.

 

[samiam5211]

@CoolBrees @samiam5211 @coldseat

Out of curiosity, how do you define "woman"?

I don't.

 

[coldseat]

To those who believe trans women are real women, what are the requirements for a male to be considered a woman? Is it enough to just say that they identify as a woman? Do you agree with Biden that male prison inmates should be able to go to a women's prison if they identify as a woman?

If a male can just say he identifies as a woman to be considered a woman, what's stopping someone from claiming they identify as other things? Why can't a 25 year old white male claim he identifies as a 10 year old black girl. Can he choose juvenile detention instead of prison? Can he attend grade school?

Can you show me the line of straight cisgendered men jumping to become women? You think men want to be regulated and diminished the way we regulate and diminish women in this country?

As for requirements, are there requirements for me to prove that I'm gay? Do you need to see me suck a dick or something? Why are trans people constantly required to "prove" themselves to other people they don't know? It often takes years for a person to flesh out, understand and accept that they're gay, trans, bi, nonbinary or anything else that doesn't fall within the traditional box of straight, cisgendered. If a person is already presenting to you as Trans, then they've likely been down that road already and you should really just accept their identity and not question it.

If a person if faking trans just to break the law or do something nefarious, that is almost always obvious with just a bit of scrutiny. And even if it's not immediately obvious, they should be treated the same under the law as any other person.

 

[wardorican]

That is why people should wait for the facts.....but despite the facts, you get the story out and enough will never read the follow up to know that is was a drunk gay person. The first lie always travels that fastest.

Just like Covington, Justice for Juicey, Nascar noose, dreadlock cutting, the 'mayor' of oakland and his nooses in the park just to name a few.

There is a severe lack of hate and racism/bigotry in this country, but it won't stop the SJW, politicians and the media to invent it.

Well, there was a vandalism based "Hate crime" just 15-20 miles north of Fort Lauderdale just a few days earlier. So, I understand why folks jumped the gun. I mean, my immediate concern was my son and friends were about to head there.

But yes, local leaders jumped the gun on cause.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I wrote this on the EE transgendered thread
===================================

I don't know if the science on this has changed but I remember a class I took in school saying that men and women think about things differently.

Literally. During brain scans of men and women being exposed to different pictures, video clips of various situations (a crying baby, a wedding , a boxing match etc.)

And the scans showed that the men were pretty consistent with other men and women with women but men and women were different from each other

If that's true I wonder what that experiment would show for transgendered people - would the scan align with their birth gender or what they identify as?

 

[SystemShock]

I don't.

If you don't have a definition of what a woman is, how can you say that Jenner is a real woman?

 

[samiam5211]

If you don't have a definition of what a woman is, how can you say that Jenner is a real woman?

It's like how Scalia defined pornography.

 

[Optimus Prime]

We'll see if anything comes from this lawsuit
================================

Britton Hamilton said, as a trans man, he wanted to become a police officer to help promote change from the inside.

He applied to the New Orleans Police Department in June 2020, and after several exams and a panel interview, he received a conditional job offer in December.

“It was like a dream job,” Hamilton said. “I want to be able to help the community and help people to view police officers differently than how they are feeling now.”

The offer was conditional on him passing a routine medical and psychological evaluation, during which he said the psychologist asked him questions about his transition.

On Jan. 28, he received an email from the police department rescinding the conditional offer “based on a psychological assessment” of his “emotional and behavioral” characteristics.

“It was super, super disappointing, because I prepared myself physically, emotionally for this job,” Hamilton said. “This is the foundation for me and my family.”...........

The New Orleans Police Department issued a statement in May.

“The decision not to move forward with the applicant in question did not involve any discrimination against the individual as a member of a protected group,” the statement read in full.

The department declined additional comment.

Hamilton’s experience isn’t unique, said Julie Callahan, a former law enforcement officer in San Jose, California, and the founder of the Transgender Community of Police and Sheriffs, a peer support group for trans law enforcement officers. Trans people face disproportionate employment discrimination generally, and she said law enforcement, which she described as a relatively conservative field, is no exception.............

MSN

 

[Paul]

... and in the spirit of Dawkins' mind exercise turned racist/homophobic rant by the woke patrol, here's a hypothetical:

How would you feel if a white kid born in South Africa, who is a naturalized U.S. citizen, was awarded a scholarship meant for African Americans?

There is only one human race. A few genes create different human groups. This was likely due to geographical isolation. I do not like the concept of classifying humans according to phenotype. I love what they do in France, they avoid the classificatioin of people according to physical traits.

Your example is not realistic.

 

[SystemShock]

It's like how Scalia defined pornography.

How did Scalia define pornography?

Because it sounds like you are confusing Scalia with Potter Stewart and his "I know [obscenity] when I see it", which is not a definition at all, to put it nicely.

 

[coldseat]

@CoolBrees @samiam5211 @coldseat

Out of curiosity, how do you define "woman"?

There is no one way to define "woman", much like there isn't one way to define "men". Gender is a social construct that we start off by basing on our biological sex, but which encompasses aspects of our society, culture, physical traits, geography, personalities and preferences. In that sense, while we have socially accepted general norms of what defines men and woman, how we define it and apply it to ourselves personally and in specificity may vary widely.

So I don't really try and define it, I look at gender as if more on a slide scale, so to speak. We have the traditional, generally accepted norms that identify the poles, i.e. men = penis, physical strength, non-emotional, provider, etc and women = vagina, emotional, nurturing, mother etc. The vast majority of people fall somewhere in between there, even if they more strongly identify with one pole or the other.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Another article on Miss Nevada
=======================

On Sunday, Kataluna Enriquez became the first transgender woman to win the Miss Nevada beauty pageant, which was held at the South Point hotel-casino in Las Vegas.

The 27-year-old will be the first openly trans woman to compete for the title of Miss USA this November.

Enriquez beat 21 other candidates to represent Nevada for the Miss USA competition, which takes place on November 29.

In a post on her Instagram account celebrating the win, Enriquez wrote: "My community, you are always in my heart. My win is our win. We just made history. Happy pride."

Enriquez's historic win was marked during Pride month, which usually takes place in June in the U.S. The month sees a series of marches, parades and other events held to recognize and celebrate the LGBTQ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, non-binary and queer) community............

MSN

 

[SystemShock]

There is only one human race. A few genes create different human groups. This was likely due to geographical isolation. I do not like the concept of classifying humans according to phenotype. I love what they do in France, they avoid the classificatioin of people according to physical traits.

Your example is not realistic.

First, you really don't want to bring France into such conversations.

As for my example not being realistic... you may not like the concept of classifying humans according to phenotype, or think it a valid proposition, but in practice, we do. And, while not a scholarship, something similar happened some years ago in a high school, early 00's, pre-tweeter IIRC, to the outrage of many and delight of many.

A young white man whose family moved from Johannesburg to the U.S. attended a HS that had an award for Outstanding African American student, as voted by the student body. So he nominated himself for the award, as he indeed was African American, and ended up winning the award, most likely due to the HS being predominantly white and the white kids thinking it was hillarious.

 

[SystemShock]

There is no one way to define "woman", much like there isn't one way to define "men". Gender is a social construct that we start off by basing on our biological sex, but which encompasses aspects of our society, culture, physical traits, geography, personalities and preferences. In that sense, while we have socially accepted general norms of what defines men and woman, how we define it and apply it to ourselves personally and in specificity may vary widely.

So I don't really try and define it, I look at gender as if more on a slide scale, so to speak. We have the traditional, generally accepted norms that identify the poles, i.e. men = penis, physical strength, non-emotional, provider, etc and women = vagina, emotional, nurturing, mother etc. The vast majority of people fall somewhere in between there, even if they more strongly identify with one pole or the other.

So you claim transwomen are real women.
I ask you to define "woman".
Then you claim "woman" can't be defined.

 

[Paul]

First, you really don't want to bring France into such conversations.

As for my example not being realistic... you may not like the concept of classifying humans according to phenotype, or think it a valid proposition, but in practice, we do. And, while not a scholarship, something similar happened some years ago in a high school, early 00's, pre-tweeter IIRC, to the outrage of many and delight of many.

A young white man whose family moved from Johannesburg to the U.S. attended a HS that had an award for Outstanding African American student, as voted by the student body. So he nominated himself for the award, as he indeed was African American, and ended up winning the award, most likely due to the HS being predominantly white and the white kids thinking it was hillarious.

OK, that was an anecdote. Thanks!
You do not like France. No worries!

As for human classification according to phenotype. I believe that classification is naturally followed by division. That is why I do not like it.