All Things LGBTQ+ (3 Viewers)

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    Farb

    Farb

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    Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

    • The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
    • Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

    I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

    While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.
     
    Farb said:
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/21/australia/laurel-hubbard-olympics-transgender-intl-hnk-spt/index.html

    A 43 year old biological male up until 2013 (competed in male weightlifting) is now on the female Olympic weight lifting team. At 43, this person could still beat out the top female Olympic hopefuls. Something doesn't smell right on this one.

    Also, when Hubbard wins a medal (probably gold) they will also be the oldest winner in Olympic history.
    Click to expand...
    If Kaitlin Jenner has always been trans, shouldn't we change her times from the Olympics to the women's category, which would make her the world record holder in every event she competed in?
     
    samiam5211 said:
    If Kaitlin Jenner has always been trans, shouldn't we change her times from the Olympics to the women's category, which would make her the world record holder in every event she competed in?
    Click to expand...

    Caitlyn Jenner isn't a woman, so why would Caitlyn's times be changed to the women's category?

    Who here believes trans women are real women and should be allowed to compete in women's sports? I'm guessing there are quite a few people here who don't think they should, but are too scared to give an honest answer.
     
    Sun Waves said:
    Caitlyn Jenner isn't a woman, so why would Caitlyn's times be changed to the women's category?

    Who here believes trans women are real women and should be allowed to compete in women's sports? I'm guessing there are quite a few people here who don't think they should, but are too scared to give an honest answer.
    Click to expand...
    I'm generally not in favor of it.. but it's also an issue that I don't really give much of a shirt about so I hadn't chimed in.
     
    First, I believe trans women are real women.

    What the heck does that even mean? Trans women are imaginary?

    Second, I don’t think trans women should be allowed to compete in sanctioned events as women.

    Third, since this is literally the first time this has ever occurred, those freaking out like this is the end of sports as we know it need to settle the heck down.

    Mediocre male athletes aren’t suddenly going to give up their penis to be able to get a gold medal in women’s water polo. Stop it.


    ETA- I agree completely with sam’s comment below about going through puberty as a male and then not being able to compete. That is actually a fantastic dividing line in my opinion.
     
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    Sun Waves said:
    Caitlyn Jenner isn't a woman, so why would Caitlyn's times be changed to the women's category?

    Who here believes trans women are real women and should be allowed to compete in women's sports? I'm guessing there are quite a few people here who don't think they should, but are too scared to give an honest answer.
    Click to expand...

    I believe trans women are real woman. Caitlyn Jenner is a woman. A piece of crap woman, but a woman nonetheless. But she compteted as a man against other men, so I see no reason to change records.

    Should trans women be allowed to compete in women's sports? I haven't devoted much time thinking about or educating myself on the subject, but my armchair opinon is that if they're on hormone treatment then yes. If not, then probably not.
     
    Sun Waves said:
    Caitlyn Jenner isn't a woman, so why would Caitlyn's times be changed to the women's category?

    Who here believes trans women are real women and should be allowed to compete in women's sports? I'm guessing there are quite a few people here who don't think they should, but are too scared to give an honest answer.
    Click to expand...

    I think she's a real woman.

    I don't think it would be fair for anyone who went through puberty as a male to compete against people who went through puberty as a female in most athletic competitions, but I am in no way qualified to make a decision on the topic.

    This is something that will be self evident in the near future and we will have to work it out, it is not the end of the world no matter what happens.
     
    samiam5211 said:
    I think she's a real woman.

    I don't think it would be fair for anyone who went through puberty as a male to compete against people who went through puberty as a female in most athletic competitions, but I am in no way qualified to make a decision on the topic.

    This is something that will be self evident in the near future and we will have to work it out, it is not the end of the world no matter what happens.
    Click to expand...
    That is what has me worried and we are already seeing a push to do this to children. Puberty blockers for children is child abuse.

    And no, a trans woman is not a woman. We have lost our ability to appreciate men for their masculinity and females for their femininity.
     
    Farb said:
    That is what has me worried and we are already seeing a push to do this to children. Puberty blockers for children is child abuse.
    Click to expand...

    Why do you believe that?

    Farb said:
    We have lost our ability to appreciate men for their masculinity and females for their femininity.
    Click to expand...

    This just seems like a catch phrase devoid of real meaning. It also seems to contradict your statement that a transwoman is not a real woman.

    If you accept that certain traits are "masculine" and "feminine", and that those should be celebrated, then isn't contradictory to say a person born with a penis, but is lacking of those masculine traits and has an abundance of "feminine" traits, you seem to be implying that that person is not a "real" man.
     
    Farb said:
    And no, a trans woman is not a woman. We have lost our ability to appreciate men for their masculinity and females for their femininity.
    Click to expand...

    I think it's very hard for most people, especially men, who aren't LGBTQ to know what it feels like to not be born the way "God intended". Most peoples religious upbringing forces them to believe only one truth. And if your truth matches that truth, there little reason or incentive to ever question it or see other truths.

    Also, those masculine and feminine trates you think we need to cling to vary wildly across the globe, but I know it's the christian, American standard your talking about.
     
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    And frankly, this dividing line using feminine/masculine traits isn't always useful or applicable. Men sometimes have so-called feminine feelings/emotions and women vice versa. Those feelings don't make you any less of a man or woman.
     
    coldseat said:
    Also, those masculine and feminine trates you think we need to cling to vary wildly across the globe, but I know it's the christian, American standard your talking about.
    Click to expand...
    I disagree. I think human civilization, despite what color, religion or culture you are taking about are pretty much all aligned on what the thought of a 'man' and 'woman
    are and how they are both equally needed in order for a normal culture. Sure, there are differences across the globe but the basics are there to be sure.

    UncleTrvlingJim said:
    Why do you believe that?



    This just seems like a catch phrase devoid of real meaning. It also seems to contradict your statement that a transwoman is not a real woman.

    If you accept that certain traits are "masculine" and "feminine", and that those should be celebrated, then isn't contradictory to say a person born with a penis, but is lacking of those masculine traits and has an abundance of "feminine" traits, you seem to be implying that that person is not a "real" man.
    Click to expand...

    That is a good point. 'Real' man is a bit to vague and kind of snarky. Not my intent I didn't mean 'real' as in fake or real, I think I should have used 'biological' man.

    I know several males with a penis and have a lot of the male traits but I don't consider 'real' men but they are biological men in the that sense.

    I also know several gay men that I consider 'real men' in both senses.

    DaveXA said:
    And frankly, this dividing line using feminine/masculine traits isn't always useful or applicable. Men sometimes have so-called feminine feelings/emotions and women vice versa. Those feelings don't make you any less of a man or woman.
    Click to expand...
    I agree. I have several feminine traits personally. I don't think the line is a definite line but there is a substantial different between men and women that I think is natural and not created by culture, or civilization.
     
    To those who believe trans women are real women, what are the requirements for a male to be considered a woman? Is it enough to just say that they identify as a woman? Do you agree with Biden that male prison inmates should be able to go to a women's prison if they identify as a woman?

    If a male can just say he identifies as a woman to be considered a woman, what's stopping someone from claiming they identify as other things? Why can't a 25 year old white male claim he identifies as a 10 year old black girl. Can he choose juvenile detention instead of prison? Can he attend grade school?
     
    Sun Waves said:
    To those who believe trans women are real women, what are the requirements for a male to be considered a woman? Is it enough to just say that they identify as a woman? Do you agree with Biden that male prison inmates should be able to go to a women's prison if they identify as a woman?

    If a male can just say he identifies as a woman to be considered a woman, what's stopping someone from claiming they identify as other things? Why can't a 25 year old white male claim he identifies as a 10 year old black girl. Can he choose juvenile detention instead of prison? Can he attend grade school?
    Click to expand...

    They are, whether a person believes it or not. That's all I am going to address in this post, given that the remaining questions run the gamut from willful ignorance to intentionally over-the-top, hyperbolic bullshirt.
     
    I was waiting for the “toaster” trope, am disappoint.
     

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