All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Farb]

Are you saying that people should be threatened with rape in bathrooms?

nice straw man, I asked you first. Do you consider bathrooms to be safe spaces from females? It is obvious you do, but now you will attempt to back track because you know the trans bathroom issue shows your hypocrisy, or maybe you haven't really thought about it but just go with what you are told on the TV?

I would bet the latter.

 

[Farb]

I wouldn't.



Yes, and I'd undoubtedly go to one of those. But that's not the point of this discussion.



Yes, but I don't want to associate with the web designer. I just want to pay for a service.



The state can't force her to do anything. But I think it's entirely reasonable for the state to demand that if a business is going to offer services to the public, that they comply with non-discrimination laws for ALL.



I don't see creating web sites for sale as a public business as speech. It's not even the "developers" speech on the web site, they're putting the clients speech on it. That's like saying the engineering plans I create for our clients is "my speech". No, they're my calculations and desings, but it's clearly the owner/clients speech, if you will.

You need to learn 'association'.

I don't believe that you think art/creation is not speech. That would make hate speech almost irrelevant and I know you really like the hate speech laws.

 

[Farb]

do you think in the states that allow minors to marry, it's ok or do you think it shouldn't be debatable and it should be illegal without question?

You will need to define marriage for me first. Are we talking a religious ceremony or the new 'civil union' definition?

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

You will need to define marriage for me first. Are we talking a religious ceremony or the new 'civil union' definition?

both/either/or/all

 

[coldseat]

The same Doctors that told you the vaccine was 'safe, effective and free'? The same 'experts' that surgically and chemically transition minors?

If we aren't going to listen to the advice of Doctor's, Scientist, Medical Boards, etc. for medical and scientific advice, who's advice should we be listening too? Republican politicans, churches and right winger radio provocateurs?

This is a serious question, because you obviously have no faith in any scientific fields of study or in any of our established institutions to help guide pracitces in these fields.

 

[Farb]

So basically as long as there are separate but equal places they could go that’s perfectly fine?




Does that work the other way as well?

If someone has a deeply help moral belief that organized religion is the cause of most of the worlds ills, that person can refuse to do any religious themed work?

Or any work for any person they know is religious?

“I know you go to church every week, so I’m not going to replace your water heater. But don’t worry I’m sure there plenty of other places you can get the same service”

for private services, sure. Do you also find it discrimitory if a restaurant won't serve a person with no shirt or shoes? There are already several colleges that do black only graduations.

Yep, that is fine and is already happening. Don't have a problem with it. Public shaming/competition will either sink that business or watch it grow. The community it serves will determine that.

 

[Farb]

If we aren't going to listen to the advice of Doctor's, Scientist, Medical Boards, etc. for medical and scientific advice, who's advice should we be listening too? Republican politicans, churches and right winger radio provocateurs?

This is a serious question, because you obviously have no faith in any scientific fields of study or in any of our established institutions to help guide pracitces in these fields.

Do we get to listen to all of them or only the left's? That is a serious question. Do you think other views on the vaccine and covid were not censored? They were and there is more than enough proof this was done by and for political gain. When you have science and politics in bed together nothing good comes from that. The main problem is that the left only heard the left's 'experts' and those that had another opinion were censored or canceled.
Are you for open and honest sharing of information when it comes to medical/science?

 

[coldseat]

You need to learn 'association'.

I don't believe that you think art/creation is not speech. That would make hate speech almost irrelevant and I know you really like the hate speech laws.

Okay

Association
noun
1 a: the act of associating
b: the state of being associated : COMBINATION, RELATIONSHIP had a long association with the firm



2: an organization of persons having a common interest : SOCIETY
an alumni association

3: something linked in memory or imagination with a thing or person
His former school has only negative associations for him.

4: the process of forming mental connections or bonds between sensations, ideas, or memories

5: the aggregation of chemical species (see SPECIES entry 1 sense 1e) to form (as with hydrogen bonds) loosely bound complexes (see COMPLEX entry 1 sense 3)

6: a major unit in ecological community organization characterized by essential uniformity and usually by two or more dominant species

Don't see where I'm wrong. I don't associate with the bartender everytime I go into the bar to purchase a drink. I just want a purchase a product. Same with the web designer.

 

[coldseat]

Do we get to listen to all of them or only the left's? That is a serious question. Do you think other views on the vaccine and covid were not censored? They were and there is more than enough proof this was done by and for political gain. When you have science and politics in bed together nothing good comes from that. The main problem is that the left only heard the left's 'experts' and those that had another opinion were censored or canceled.
Are you for open and honest sharing of information when it comes to medical/science?

That didn't answer the question I asked.

Let me ask it another way. Who do you specifically listen to for advice on medical and scientific question? Personal and otherwise.

 

[Optimus Prime]

for private services, sure. Do you also find it discrimitory if a restaurant won't serve a person with no shirt or shoes? There are already several colleges that do black only graduations.

Yep, that is fine and is already happening. Don't have a problem with it. Public shaming/competition will either sink that business or watch it grow. The community it serves will determine that.

Did you really just compare “no shirt, no shoes, no service” and “no gays allowed”?

 

[MT15]

Do we get to listen to all of them or only the left's? That is a serious question. Do you think other views on the vaccine and covid were not censored? They were and there is more than enough proof this was done by and for political gain. When you have science and politics in bed together nothing good comes from that. The main problem is that the left only heard the left's 'experts' and those that had another opinion were censored or canceled.
Are you for open and honest sharing of information when it comes to medical/science?

No views were censored. The fact that you have heard all about the crazy views proves that. There was zero censoring of medical data for political reasons. Your “proof” is just wrong.

What happened was that scientific consensus discarded the crazy views, and rightly so. Anything that could be proven was added to the sum of scientific knowledge. Were there some ideas and conclusions that had to be modified as the virus mutated and we learned more about it? Sure, but there was no huge conspiracy to “silence” anyone - no matter how many propagandists peddle their conspiracy theories to you. It’s one of the more ridiculous things I’ve witnessed in my long life - that idiots on the internet have successfully bamboozled people into believing that scientists are political beings. It’s absurd. They’re people who have a profession, and they don’t let their politics rule their professional life any more than you or I do. (At least I never did, and I imagine you are the same way). I would have never even considered altering the outcome of a lab test for any reason, political or any other.

You need to quit reading the people who are selling you this line of absolute bull shirt.

The vaccines were (are) safe and effective. They may still be free, I’m not sure. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.

I know I’m wasting my time trying to communicate these facts to you. You have put your faith in charlatans. You have bought into the narrative that people are using to destroy this country. I wish you would come to your senses, but I feel sure you will not. Thousands of people like you paid for this disinformation with their lives. I knew one of them. The people who are pushing this conspiracy crap should have a special place in hell for what they have done.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

The patient is a minor. Do you also think the patient can consent to getting a tattoo?

The parents I agree with you on 100%. So naturally you are also against all the laws/policies in schools to help a child (a minor) keep transitioning from the parents a secret are wrong, right?

The same Doctors that told you the vaccine was 'safe, effective and free'? The same 'experts' that surgically and chemically transition minors?

I don't care who it is, as long as their position comes from a place of real world facts, biological science and has some sort of moral value system attached to it. Come to think of it, you are right, it should be me. I would love to be emperor. Just kidding but the amount of faith you put into people who lie to you everyday is staggering. Yes, I know you will now call me a liar and something about Trump and Fox news or some other flail.

What if the parent consents to the sexual relationship between their child and the adult. That does check your boxes for it being no one else's business?

Sex and tattoos are not necessary to live. Medical care is. Your arguments are trash.

 

[MT15]

nice straw man, I asked you first. Do you consider bathrooms to be safe spaces from females? It is obvious you do, but now you will attempt to back track because you know the trans bathroom issue shows your hypocrisy, or maybe you haven't really thought about it but just go with what you are told on the TV?

I would bet the latter.

I don’t think anyone should feel threatened anywhere. I reject your idea that trans women are going into female restrooms and threatening people. It’s not an issue.

My opinion is that trans women would be at considerable risk of being threatened in a male restroom. I posted a case where it happened the very first time a trans woman was forced to use the male restroom.

Care to comment on that, or are you just gonna keep pushing straw?

 

[MT15]

The parents I agree with you on 100%. So naturally you are also against all the laws/policies in schools to help a child (a minor) keep transitioning from the parents a secret are wrong, right?

Are you aware that professionals have a duty to protect a child from abuse? That they are required to report physical abuse? Professionals have to use their judgement to know when a child will be in danger if their parents are informed of something. I think it should be rare that a professional withholds information permanently from the parents of a child, but it does happen currently, and there are times it should happen, these laws will end up hurting a child at some point. Because the people that wrote them care less about children and more about culture wars. In other words they are stupid.

Why do you want to take away choices from parents? Serious question, if you believe that parents should have the final say in medical care for their child, why do you support taking their choices away from them?

 

[MT15]

You will need to define marriage for me first. Are we talking a religious ceremony or the new 'civil union' definition?

Lol, the civil union isn’t new and it’s called marriage.

 

[MT15]

Do you also find it discrimitory if a restaurant won't serve a person with no shirt or shoes?

Those are public health laws.

as for black only graduations - those are private parties not associated with the school. See, this is where your right of association comes in. Not in commerce, or the marketplace.

 

[MT15]

This is the result of listening to the propaganda being spun by the far right. Exactly this. People need to take a step back and quit indulging their fantasies of being persecuted by the “left”. The left is focusing on trying to bring back good jobs, getting better healthcare, and making corporations and the billionaires pay their fair share of taxes. They are not trying to destroy anyone, or force people to live by their religion, or weaponizing crazy people to do terroristic acts.

 

[LA - L.A.]

The patient is a minor. Do you also think the patient can consent to getting a tattoo?

The parents I agree with you on 100%. So naturally you are also against all the laws/policies in schools to help a child (a minor) keep transitioning from the parents a secret are wrong, right?

The same Doctors that told you the vaccine was 'safe, effective and free'? The same 'experts' that surgically and chemically transition minors?

I don't care who it is, as long as their position comes from a place of real world facts, biological science and has some sort of moral value system attached to it. Come to think of it, you are right, it should be me. I would love to be emperor. Just kidding but the amount of faith you put into people who lie to you everyday is staggering. Yes, I know you will now call me a liar and something about Trump and Fox news or some other flail.

Don't worry, dude. I'm pretty sure not many people around here put much faith into what you say.