All Things LGBTQ+ (10 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Clear majorities of Americans support restrictions affecting transgender children, a Washington Post-KFF poll finds, offering political jet fuel for Republicans in state legislatures and Congress who are pushing measures restricting curriculum, sports participation and medical care.


Most Americans don’t believe it’s even possible to be a gender that differs from that assigned at birth. A 57 percent majority of adults said a person’s gender is determined from the start, with 43 percent saying it can differ.

And some Americans have become more conservative on these questions as Republicans have seized the issue and worked to promote new restrictions.

The Pew Research Center found 60 percent last year saying one’s gender is determined by the sex assigned at birth, up from 54 percent in 2017.

Even among young adults, who are the most accepting of trans identity, about half said in the Post-KFF poll that a person’s gender is determined by their sex at birth.

The Post-KFF poll was conducted in November and December, before state lawmakers introduced more than 400 anti-trans bills this year, up from about 150 bills in 2022, according to a Post analysis of ACLU data.

The Post reported initial findings on March 23 and took additional time for analysis and interviews with respondents and others.

It is not clear how the surge of anti-trans bills will affect public opinion or whether new laws targeting drag shows and gender-affirming care for adults will be popular…….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/05/05/trans-poll-gop-politics-laws/

The reason that support for trans rights is reduced is that recently, supporters of trans rights have decided and proudly announced that there is a right to transgenderize children, and a right to place biological males into women's sports, including contact sports, included in trans rights.

In the U.S., we strongly believe in rights, and almost all debates about rights are actually about balancing rights. Prior to the last few years, the debate about trans rights was the right of trans people to express themselves as such, and the right of people who do not want to go along with it to not recognize them.

Now, it is the right of children to grow up unmolested and unmutilated, vs. the rights of some parents, counselors, physicians and surgeons to make life, and body altering decisions for children that they cannot make for themselves. It is also the right of girls and women to have safe spaces vs. the right of boys and men to encroach those safe spaces merely by proclaiming themselves girls or women.

If I were a grownup trans person, with no interest in kids, I would want the movement to back off on those two issues, so I'm not painted with the same brush.

 

[Incumbent]

Serious question, what does it mean to be an ally in the workplace?

Depends on the workplace.

On pronouns - issues arising from that are more likely going to be related to individual business culture and clientele than geography. There are businesses operating between the coasts that can incorporate these practices to a more receptive workforce and customer base, especially in major urban areas.

 

[el caliente]

I wonder how the LGB crowd feels about the T crowd? Do the lesbian, gay, and bisexual crowd view transgender individuals in the same light?

 

[el caliente]

Depends on the workplace.

On pronouns - issues arising from that are more likely going to be related to individual business culture and clientele than geography. There are businesses operating between the coasts that can incorporate these practices to a more receptive workforce and customer base, especially in major urban areas.

Really? I’m not doubting this, however I believe the practice of using pronouns in signatures is 1000x more receptive in a place like Miami or San Fran than it is in Chicago or Houston.

 

[MT15]

Really? I’m not doubting this, however I believe the practice of using pronouns in signatures is 1000x more receptive in a place like Miami or San Fran than it is in Chicago or Houston.

Maybe. Don’t know anything about Houston, but I don’t think anyone would give a shirt in Chicago.

 

[Incumbent]

Really? I’m not doubting this, however I believe the practice of using pronouns in signatures is 1000x more receptive in a place like Miami or San Fran than it is in Chicago or Houston.

It’s done in my wife’s place of employment in Texas (medium scale business with a corporate partnership in another state). I agree that it raises issues in other environments.

 

[Snarky Sack]

What I need more than pronoun education is a new gender neutral form of address, a new version of "Sir" and "Ma'am."

My wife and I often attend quilting and weaving events, and there are a lot of trans people who do also. More than we see at gun shows, anyway. So this last weekend, I saw from behind who I thought was a tall college age woman. When I came around to the front of that booth, it was obvious that the person was male. But it was unclear if he was male who just happened to look feminine, or if he identified as female.

Pronouns are not a problem, in that case, because if I talk to him, I would just say "you." If I need to say something about him to someone else in the booth, I could just say "your partner," or "your friend." Being an older Texan, I always call women "ma'am" when I meet them. But if he were just a feminine looking male, that would be misgendering him. I need something to replace that.

I prefer that the word used not be "comrade," just because countries who adopted that have not done well, as I know even without being a history teacher. I have proposed "compeer" which denotes an equal, but I'm only one guy.

 

[coldseat]

I wonder how the LGB crowd feels about the T crowd? Do the lesbian, gay, and bisexual crowd view transgender individuals in the same light?

Yes, if you're not a bigot that is. There are LGB people who are bigots as well.

 

[coldseat]

The reason that support for trans rights is reduced is that recently, supporters of trans rights have decided and proudly announced that there is a right to transgenderize children, and a right to place biological males into women's sports, including contact sports, included in trans rights.

In the U.S., we strongly believe in rights, and almost all debates about rights are actually about balancing rights. Prior to the last few years, the debate about trans rights was the right of trans people to express themselves as such, and the right of people who do not want to go along with it to not recognize them.

Now, it is the right of children to grow up unmolested and unmutilated, vs. the rights of some parents, counselors, physicians and surgeons to make life, and body altering decisions for children that they cannot make for themselves. It is also the right of girls and women to have safe spaces vs. the right of boys and men to encroach those safe spaces merely by proclaiming themselves girls or women.

If I were a grownup trans person, with no interest in kids, I would want the movement to back off on those two issues, so I'm not painted with the same brush.

This is so much crap. Where do you think trans adults come from? Do you think they just appear out of thin air? No, they grow up a as children as well. Usually children who are bullied and accosted by straight (or gay/straight acting) adults and kids because they are different. All trans adults want is for kids who are trans to grow up in a safe environment without the same harassment, vitriol and discrimination that they had to deal with as children. You aren't protecting children with this backwards mentality, you're hurting trans kids and teaching straight and gay/straight acting children that it's okay to discriminate and bully against kids who are different.

You also give license to hateful and suspicious adults to question and harass girls in sports by forcing them to prove their gender (through physical examination and medical history) whenever their physique doesn't compart with their twisted expectations. So you have that feather in you cap as well.

 

[Incumbent]

I thought trans kids were the offspring of red ballcap Dads who drink Bud Light and Karen-moms who shop at Target? Isn't that why we are being called on to stop such demonic attacks on humanity?

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

i don't know why people are so butt hurt over pronouns. sure, its no ones fault if you call someone by something other than what they prefer if you don't know. but the biggest problem is if someone wants to be called something else, why do some just freak out and go nuclear. Hell, i work with people with crazy nicknames and none has a problem calling them by that. Just to name a few: Monkey, Dookey, Bother in Law, Burnt Bread, Birdman. I know them by no other name. If something happened and i had to identify any of them, i could not give their real names.

 

[el caliente]

Yes, if you're not a bigot that is. There are LGB people who are bigots as well.

I wouldn’t know what to call a member of the LGB community in that situation, or tell them how they should feel.

Being lumped in a group is never an ideal place to find yourself, as you may not believe you share any commonalities with others in said group.

Many in the Latin or Black community take offense to being lumped into the POC group as they do not view their treatment the same.

Similarly, I don’t care for people trying to label me as LatinX. I don’t identify as LatinX, and I know few Hispanic people who accept that term. Maybe on the coasts they accept it, but by and large we don’t want to be lumped in with people who claim to be LatinX.

I can’t read the minds of others, or tell them how to feel about this issue as I am neither LGB or T.

 

[el caliente]

i don't know why people are so butt hurt over pronouns. sure, its no ones fault if you call someone by something other than what they prefer if you don't know. but the biggest problem is if someone wants to be called something else, why do some just freak out and go nuclear. Hell, i work with people with crazy nicknames and none has a problem calling them by that. Just to name a few: Monkey, Dookey, Bother in Law, Burnt Bread, Birdman. I know them by no other name. If something happened and i had to identify any of them, i could not give their real names.

This reminds me of a comedic bit I heard about people using filters on their camera so much that if something were to happen nobody could identify them (as you can tell from my recap, I can’t recap a joke).

But I agree. I don’t care what pronoun you go by.

 

[coldseat]

I wouldn’t know what to call a member of the LGB community in that situation, or tell them how they should feel.

Being lumped in a group is never an ideal place to find yourself, as you may not believe you share any commonalities with others in said group.

Many in the Latin or Black community take offense to being lumped into the POC group as they do not view their treatment the same.

Similarly, I don’t care for people trying to label me as LatinX. I don’t identify as LatinX, and I know few Hispanic people who accept that term. Maybe on the coasts they accept it, but by and large we don’t want to be lumped in with people who claim to be LatinX.

I can’t read the minds of others, or tell them how to feel about this issue as I am neither LGB or T.

Well, I'm a G and I and all of my other LGB friends are comfortable associating with and being lumped together with T. It's been that way since we had an LGBT movement.

Moreover, we're offended at these attempts to separate us from the T's by the same people that harass and discriminate against the rest of the LGB.

These divide and concur attempts aren't the least bit convincing. We've already seen what happens when they successfully target and discriminate against T's ... they target the rest of the LGB after. Just look at every Republican controlled state right now. It's already happening. So, fork all those that try to separate us.

Maybe the people offended by being lumped into POC should learn that lesson as well, because it definitely happens.

 

[CoolBrees]

The largest employer on Earth, Amazon, requires pronoun recognition up to and including termination for not following.

I’d say their business model has been pretty successful - even in red states.

 

[el caliente]

Well, I'm a G and I and all of my other LGB friends are comfortable associating with and being lumped together with T. It's been that way since we had an LGBT movement.

Moreover, we're offended at these attempts to separate us from the T's by the same people that harass and discriminate against the rest of the LGB.

These divide and concur attempts aren't the least bit convincing. Moreover, we've already seen what happens when they successfully target and discriminate against T's ... they target the rest of the LGB after. Just look at every Republican controlled state right now. It's already happening. So, fork all those that try to separate us.

Maybe the people offended by lumped into POC should learn that lesson as well, because it definitely happens.

Maybe your truth is different than someone else’s.

Who is an outsider to tell someone within how they should feel? I’m certainly not trying to tell you how to live or feel, though during one of the events I volunteered at I had the opportunity to work with several members of the LGB community, and I’m not sure it’s because they had conservative leanings, or if they are bigots, but a few of them took issue with Ts, and how they are forcing their acceptance of (his words) a mental disorder.

A few others that were at our table objected to Ts having a mental disorder, but they certainly didn’t feel like their fight has been as long standing as those fought by the LG community.

It was an interesting conversation to listen to. I was just a fly on the wall as I had nothing of value to offer, nor had I walked a mile in their shoes.

 

[el caliente]

The largest employer on Earth, Amazon, requires pronoun recognition up to and including termination for not following.

I’d say their business model has been pretty successful - even in red states.

Cool for Amazon. Where are they head quartered?

 

[Incumbent]

Cool for Amazon. Where are they head quartered?

Where is the city of Dallas located?

City of Dallas protocols for handling gender transition require city employees to use preferred pronouns on threat of punishment regardless of personal belief

A City of Dallas “gender transition” toolkit requires public employees to use a transitioning person’s preferred pronouns regardless of personal beliefs.

dallasexpress.com