All Things LGBTQ+ (4 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[MT15]

I asked you to provide a link to the long term studies.

You can't find any can you?

We’ve already done so. I did it myself. You always ignore these links and then later claim they weren’t provided. It’s dishonest.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

The cognitive dissonance at work in the quoted article is.... /chef's kiss

 

[coldseat]

The conservatives on the SC will give this woman what she wants and in the process create a second class citizenship for LGBTQ people, even though she hasn't even suffered any injury. I though that was a prerequisite for any case, but I guess when it comes to discriminating against LGBTQ people it's not necessary.

This has nothing to do with free speech or religious freedom, it's purely about religious people being allowed to discriminate against gay people in their business/work. Web designers aren't artists and neither are bakers. They're business of public accomodation.

Colorado makes the only salient argument in this case. The SC shouldn't have taken this case and let the lower court ruling stand. But that's not this right wing courts mission.

==========
Colorado responds that even if the websites Smith wants to produce are expressive — she has not actually accepted commission for one to avoid running afoul of the law — she is conflating free speech with selling a product. The state’s residents should not have to worry about whether a business will reject them “because of who they are.”

The law’s application “does not turn on what a business chooses to sell,” Weiser writes in the state’s brief. “It simply requires that, once a business offers a product or service to the public, the business sells it to all.”

Smith, the state says, is free to offer “only websites that include biblical quotes describing marriage as the union of one man and one woman.” But then the company “must sell whatever it offers to customers regardless of their race, religion, sexual orientation, or other protected characteristic . Both believers and atheists can choose to buy its websites with biblical quotes.”

The state says that Smith proposes to post on her company website the message that “I will not be able to create websites for same-sex marriages or any other marriage that is not between one man and one woman.”
===============

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/12/04/colorado-supreme-court-web-design-lgbtq/

 

[SystemShock]

Web designers aren't artists and neither are bakers.

Why do you think they aren't artists? What do you consider an "artist"?
I can understand people arguing against web designers being artists, but cake bakers? Especially wedding cake bakers? Surely not all cake bakers, but you go tell Bastien Blanc Tailleur he isn't an artist. Now, that guy in Colorado, I don't know...

 

[coldseat]

Why do you think they aren't artists? What do you consider an "artist"?
I can understand people arguing against web designers being artists, but cake bakers? Especially wedding cake bakers? Surely not all cake bakers, but you go tell Bastien Blanc Tailleur he isn't an artist. Now, that guy in Colorado, I don't know...

Maybe it's just me, but I've never considered a baker an artist. Cake decorating takes some artistry, but that doesn't make them artist. Nobody cares what a wedding cake bakers point of view or message is. They just want a cake that looks pretty and taste good for their event.

 

[MT15]

So, we have an intentional act of sabotage on the power grid in NC affecting an area that was targeted by right wing zealots because of a local drag show:

FBI investigating power grid attack in Moore County, sheriff says

Deputies say they are actively searching for those responsible for the attacks.

www.wsoctv.com

“Governor Roy Cooper weighed in on the situation saying:

“I appreciate the swift response from local and state emergency responders in Moore County to protect public safety and work with Duke Energy to restore power,” said Governor Cooper. “An attack like this on critical infrastructure is a serious, intentional crime and I expect state and federal authorities to thoroughly investigate and bring those responsible to justice. Moore County has strong, vibrant communities and the state will continue to provide transportation and public safety assistance.””

 

[MT15]

While no group has claimed responsibility yet, the drag show had received threats. Several substations were damaged intentionally by gunfire in the middle of the drag show at a local theater. The power outages are expected to last several days because of the extent of the damages to the substations.

 

[SystemShock]

Maybe it's just me, but I've never considered a baker an artist. Cake decorating takes some artistry, but that doesn't make them artist. Nobody cares what a wedding cake bakers point of view or message is. They just want a cake that looks pretty and taste good for their event.

Did you look at the cakes in the link? Do you think those cakes took "some artistry" to make or is it that they were created by an accomplished artist? Does art must have a certain "point of view" or certain "message"?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

So, we have an intentional act of sabotage on the power grid in NC affecting an area that was targeted by right wing zealots because of a local drag show:

FBI investigating power grid attack in Moore County, sheriff says

Deputies say they are actively searching for those responsible for the attacks.

www.wsoctv.com

“Governor Roy Cooper weighed in on the situation saying:

“I appreciate the swift response from local and state emergency responders in Moore County to protect public safety and work with Duke Energy to restore power,” said Governor Cooper. “An attack like this on critical infrastructure is a serious, intentional crime and I expect state and federal authorities to thoroughly investigate and bring those responsible to justice. Moore County has strong, vibrant communities and the state will continue to provide transportation and public safety assistance.””

Terrorists. Throw the book at them.

 

[coldseat]

Did you look at the cakes in the link? Do you think those cakes took "some artistry" to make or is it that they were created by an accomplished artist? Does art must have a certain "point of view" or certain "message"?

They're very pretty cakes and he's clearly very skilled. Still, cakes are food to me and not art. Maybe one day I'll run into a cake that produce some deeper thought than it's pretty and I want to eat it. But everybody can have their own interpretation. I'm not saying my view should be universally held.

I do think that "art" always has a message or meaning behind it.

 

[MT15]

Terrorists. Throw the book at them.

Evidently a woman named Emily Rainey posted on FB that she knew why the power was out and was interviewed by the Sheriff’s dept. She says she told them it was a punishment from God for having the drag show in the county. She is a former military operative with training in psyops who was recently kicked out of the military for leading a group on Jan. 6. I don’t know if she has been charged yet in regards to that. She led and organized the local protest over the drag show.

I read that the damage done was specifically done with knowledge to cause maximum damage, and that cell service was also knocked out.

This drag show was also targeted by the terroristic site “Libs if TikTok”. As usual, they distorted what was going on. It was said to be a family friendly show, but had the standard disclaimer for parental guidance - possible mature themes. They used that to claim that this drag show was “luring” children to abuse them. One would hope whoever runs that account will eventually have the same fate as Alex Jones, as there isn’t any difference in the filth they say and do.

 

[brandon]

@SaintForLife care to denounce this act of terrorism?

 

[SystemShock]

They're very pretty cakes and he's clearly very skilled. Still, cakes are food to me and not art. Maybe one day I'll run into a cake that produce some deeper thought than it's pretty and I want to eat it. But everybody can have their own interpretation. I'm not saying my view should be universally held.

I do think that "art" always has a message or meaning behind it.

Art is subjective, of course, but I think you are poo-pooing someone's skill to fit your "cake bakers are not artists" claim.
If you don't consider something to be art because it doesn't produce some deeper thought, then you are leaving a lot of masterpieces out of the realm of art. But, to each his own.

 

[coldseat]

Art is subjective, of course, but I think you are poo-pooing someone's skill to fit your "cake bakers are not artists" claim.
If you don't consider something to be art because it doesn't produce some deeper thought, then you are leaving a lot of masterpieces out of the realm of art. But, to each his own.

I wasn't poo-pooing anybody. I've just never thought of bakers as artist, that's all. It's just my opinion. I would never challenge a baker if he insisted he was an artist. To each their own.

Do you consider chefs artist too? I've seen a lot of extremally artistic plates of food that take a ton of skill and are beautiful, but I don't think of chefs as artist either.

 

[samiam5211]

I wasn't poo-pooing anybody. I've just never thought of bakers as artist, that's all. It's just my opinion. I would never challenge a baker if he insisted he was an artist. To each their own.

Do you consider chefs artist too? I've seen a lot of extremally artistic plates of food that take a ton of skill and are beautiful, but I don't think of chefs as artist either.

What about sandwich artists?

 

[MT15]

I think the idea that a website designer should be able to discriminate against a protected class of people is just wrong. She’s not an artist - she’s offering a service. But this is the slippery slope that was opened up with the previous SC decision. She will call herself an artist so she can discriminate.

As for cakes as art, I guess that’s in the eye of the beholder. Maybe we should apply a rule of thumb here. If an artist decides they won’t create their art for black folks or women or people of the Jewish faith would we feel they have that right? Because that’s what we are agreeing to if we go with the idea that a baker is an artist.

I’m actually sort of okay with letting these people discriminate. As long as they have to advertise their discriminatory practices prominently. Like every ad, every flyer has to state in no uncertain terms that they discriminate against certain people. Then let the marketplace do its thing. That way nobody from the classes that are discriminated against will ever show up, and the rest of the public can decide whether they want to support said business as well.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Whoever makes the cakes at your local grocery store is not an artist (even calling them a baker is a stretch, same way I probably wouldn't call the cook at a greasy spoon diner a chef)

But I've seen plenty of cakes where would call the cakes art and the baker an artist

Where is the line?

 

[MT15]