All Things LGBTQ+ (1 Viewer)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[RobF]

One thing about this particular issue, the preferred pronoun, we only use pronouns when we are talking about someone, most likely not when that someone is present; so what difference does it really make? Forcing someone to use a certain pronoun when speaking about you, when you are not even there, is not going to make that person accept you.

Can anyone in the group show SystemShock what he's got wrong there?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Can anyone in the group show SystemShock what he's got wrong there?

Follow up: Will he acknowledge it?

 

[SystemShock]

Back to blanket statements with no gray area to be found.

It is not a "blanket statement". It is a fact. Facts don't have gray areas. But you can't even bring yourself to admit it.

Ironic that the discussion is about gender (which exists on a spectrum) and you insist on a binary answer.

I insist that the men-women division in sports is indeed binary, and has nothing to do with gender, which, again, fact.
But again, you can't bring yourself to admit it.

 

[SystemShock]

Can anyone in the group show SystemShock what he's got wrong there?

By all means, enlighten me, instead of the passive-aggressive BS.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

It is not a "blanket statement". It is a fact. Facts don't have gray areas. But you can't even bring yourself to admit it.


I insist that the men-women division in sports is indeed binary, and has nothing to do with gender, which, again, fact.
But again, you can't bring yourself to admit it.

Here's your question:

Let's try this:

Answer True or false:
The men-women division in sports is a biological division between males and females of the species.

When you say 'biological division', you are talking about XX vs XY chromosomes, correct?

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

SystemShock

There are all kinds of lists of rules regarding trans athletes and what they can or can't participate in around the world and in this country. This is just one of them:

TRANSATHLETE Organization & Governing body policy

Policy for transgender athletes from national governing bodies and sport organizations.

www.transathlete.com

They vary according to sport, or level, now and will likely continue to change. Do you object to this approach and if so why? What other approach can be taken? Obviously the effect on one sport will be different than the effect on another.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

SystemShock

There are all kinds of lists of rules regarding trans athletes and what they can or can't participate in around the world and in this country. This is just one of them:




They vary according to sport, or level, now and will likely continue to change. Do you object to this approach and if so why? What other approach can be taken? Obviously the effect on one sport will be different than the effect on another.

And this is why his question is absolute bullshirt. There are countless governing bodies across the world for all manner of sports at every level, from professionals down to youth sports, and these governing bodies all set their own rules. There is no simple way to answer the question. It's not a binary yes/no situation and anyone who insists on boiling it down to such either lacks the ability to understand that or lacks the desire to engage honestly.

 

[coldseat]

It is not a "blanket statement". It is a fact. Facts don't have gray areas. But you can't even bring yourself to admit it.


I insist that the men-women division in sports is indeed binary, and has nothing to do with gender, which, again, fact.
But again, you can't bring yourself to admit it.

The men-women division in sports is historically a result of our patriarchal society. For much of our history, women weren't allowed to compete in competitive sports. When they were finally allowed to, they were separated from men. This is most evident by the fact that we often segregate youth sports into boys and girls when there isn't much difference before puberty. I mean, there was a time where women wouldn't even be allowed to played chess because men where thought to be "smatter".

There is a physical divide that develops throughout puberty and after between biological men and women that justifies separate leagues in many sports. I don't think anybody in this thread has denied this or failed to recognize it. I'm not sure why this is as some type of "gotcha". But the physical divide isn't some blanket binary across all sports and doesn't impact all sports in the same way. That's where a lot of nuance exist that is often absent in these "binary" discussion.

It also doesn't do anything to answer the main question of whether trans people should be allowed to participate in the sport of their gender. And if so, what rules are in place to protect competitive balance in sports with the inclusion of trans people.

 

[MT15]

The way the R party is currently legislating youth sports is nothing less than an attack on trans children who want to play sports with their friends. Often there is one (1) child affected by these laws in an entire state. Competitive sports already has many rules and conditions for competition, as it should. And once puberty hits there are physical differences. However, the differences aren’t always as stark as has been portrayed in this thread, and they apply differently to different sports, as noted.

Arguing that trans children can’t participate in sports according to their preferred status (before puberty) confers no advantage and is cruel for the sake of being cruel.

As one R governor put it (cannot remember who): Before I decided whether to sign this law, I wanted to understand who this law will affect. So I looked into it. There is exactly 1 person affected by this law in our whole state. I cannot pretend I understand what these kids are going through, but it is reliably known these kids are at increased risk of suicide. If playing a sport at school helps, then I am not going to prohibit it. (paraphrased by me).

He vetoed the bill in his state. These laws are solutions in search of a problem, IMHO.

 

[bird]

Yet again, you really have to dry the hay.

BTW, did you count the arms and legs in that picture?



Let's try this:

Answer True or false:
The men-women division in sports is a biological division between males and females of the species.

False. It is a social construct as is basically everything. Sports do not exist in nature. Have a nice day.

 

[coldseat]

More evidence of attacks and censorship of LGBTQ people and issues in schools. The right wing cancel culture has gone off the rails, they can't even live with acknowledging the existence of LGBTQ people or any legitimate discussions about LGBTQ issues that isn't negative, derogatory and discriminating.

================
My birth certificate reads “Meghan.” But my peers at Northwest High School in Nebraska knew me as “Marcus.” Changing my name wasn’t supposed to be a political statement. But our local school board has turned it into one.

As a student at Northwest, I wrote for our newspaper, Viking Saga. In late March, we were told by the board we would no longer be allowed to publish any name that wasn’t on our birth certificate or use gender-variant pronouns.

The Saga’s staff disagreed with the new policy. So with our next issue, we knew we wanted to make a statement. Whether the administration, parents or other students liked it or not, there were LGBTQ kids at Northwest, and taking away our liberty to be ourselves wasn’t going to change that.

For June, we published our “pride” issue. Its only LGBTQ content: three articles and, on the front page, two rainbow icons. Every other story in the paper was dedicated to honoring Northwest’s expansive student life. This included articles about newly offered classes, students in Future Business Leaders of America qualifying for a national contest and the trapshooting team’s successful season.

And then? The school board told us they were canceling our newspaper class starting the next academic year.

...................
=======================

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/07/nebraska-northwest-high-school-newspaper-lgbtq-canceled/

 

[Farb]

I never said he was part of the religious right and nothing I said in my post could be honestly interpreted that way. If all you're going to do is willfully misrepresent the things I say, save us both the trouble and don't respond anymore. Your bullshirt schtick is tired.

Well, if you are saying someone is doing something that makes them a certain something, I think most would like to know what that certain something is.

Promise? I will promise to never respond to you if you do the same? Promise?

 

[Farb]

Well, I am glad you admitted to being radicalized. Now, go get some help.

This gets old. If I am radicalized for believing that women have babies and men not cannot become a woman, regardless of how much money the trans medical industry sucks out of them, what does that make you? Everything I believe was natural fact 15 mins ago but yet someone tells you the complete opposite of a natural biological truth and you believe with out question. So who is radicalized?

 

[Farb]

I never said Sweden hasn’t paused use of some sort of therapy. I don’t know whether they did or not and I couldn’t care less. Certainly not enough to try to figure it out.

But your source is extremely biased as they say so themselves. They are exactly 100 clinical people (not all MDs) out of millions of professionals world-wide, so no, I’m not believing them just on their say-so.

People have shown you where the use of puberty blockers is the standard of care in the US, and we have discussed the professional protocols for their use. So, no, I am decidedly not going to run around the internet doing your errands. You can just go pound sand. You’ve been shown and refuse to acknowledge it.

I think you are the one being incredibly flippant (recklessly so) about threats of violence. You have shown me your true colors when your response to a bomb threat to a hospital is that they essentially deserved it. And your denial of the actual horrible people of KiwiFarms is just right on brand for someone who is evidently okay with threats and harassment of people they don’t like.

I stand by my opinion. You’re being radicalized to accept violence against trans people.

All, the stopped all for trans affirming healthcare. And not just them:
England recently
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-lgbt-transgender-trfn-idUSKBN28B3AV
France
https://segm.org/France-cautions-regarding-puberty-blockers-and-cross-sex-hormones-for-youth
"The National Academy of Medicine in France has issued a press release in which it cautions medical practitioners that the growing cases of transgender identity in young people are often socially-mediated and that great caution in treatment is needed. The Academy draws attention to the fact that hormonal and surgical treatments carry health risks and have permanent effects, and that it is not possible to distinguish a durable trans identity from a passing phase of an adolescent's development."

How many clinicians that are independent from trans affirming medical care published studies (long term as well) on the benefit hormone therapy specifically for a mental disorder? I will wait (it won't be long, as I will predict a study will soon emerge with no peer review and it will be shown as proof for the trans-money making machine).

 

[bird]

This gets old. If I am radicalized for believing that women have babies and men not cannot become a woman, regardless of how much money the trans medical industry sucks out of them, what does that make you? Everything I believe was natural fact 15 mins ago but yet someone tells you the complete opposite of a natural biological truth and you believe with out question. So who is radicalized?

No, and NOBODY believes men can have babies. You keep posting that schlitz as though you have a point but you do not. Your radicalization is support for the Republican party whose base platform has become The Big Lie and bullschlitz like LGBTQ is somehow some threat to your threadbare existence.

Yes, you most certainly are radicalized. Transgender is none of your business.

As for me? I do not care. What transgender people do is their business. By your idiotic comment regarding the medical industry ED pills should not be sold, plastic surgeons should not practice. Cancer patients should not be treated. The medical industry sucks up money whenever and wherever they can what people seek to do for whatever treatment that actually works as opposed to Republican ivermectin/hydroxychloroquin bullschlitz is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

 

[bird]

All, the stopped all for trans affirming healthcare. And not just them:
England recently
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-lgbt-transgender-trfn-idUSKBN28B3AV
France
https://segm.org/France-cautions-regarding-puberty-blockers-and-cross-sex-hormones-for-youth
"The National Academy of Medicine in France has issued a press release in which it cautions medical practitioners that the growing cases of transgender identity in young people are often socially-mediated and that great caution in treatment is needed. The Academy draws attention to the fact that hormonal and surgical treatments carry health risks and have permanent effects, and that it is not possible to distinguish a durable trans identity from a passing phase of an adolescent's development."

How many clinicians that are independent from trans affirming medical care published studies (long term as well) on the benefit hormone therapy specifically for a mental disorder? I will wait (it won't be long, as I will predict a study will soon emerge with no peer review and it will be shown as proof for the trans-money making machine).

Socially-motivated. Interesting term. EVERYTHING is socially motivated. And I am sure that the transphobes like yourself will screech until the cows come home about the French report. And what will you do when a peer-reviewed report comes out in the U.S. saying the French report is wrong? You'll screech again.

 

[bird]

Oh, btw, provide links as to your alleged transgender money-making machine. Or is that just another Farb screech?

 

[Farb]

A teacher who refused to use a transitioning student's chosen pronouns, saying they went against his Christian beliefs, was jailed after ignoring a court order that barred him from entering his school's grounds.

Enoch Burke, who teaches German, history and politics at Wilson's Hospital School in Westmeath, Ireland, was arrested on Monday morning and sent to Mountjoy prison for contempt of court.

"It is insanity that I will be led from this courtroom to a place of incarceration, but I will not give up my Christian beliefs," Burke, an evangelical Christian, said after a judge ruled he was to be sent to jail.

He was found on the school grounds despite being suspended and placed on administrative leave after an outburst against the use of gender-neutral pronouns in June, when he publicly disputed a trans student's choice of using "they/them" as their preferred pronouns.

The school then asked Burke to respect the student's gender identity, but Burke refused to do so, reportedly saying that a belief system was forced upon the school, its staff and its students that went against the teaching of the Church of Ireland. He also said being forced to respect a transitioning student using their preferred pronouns was in breach of his constitutional rights..............

MSN

www.msn.com

At least his kids were not taken away from him
https://www.iwf.org/identity-crisis-jeannette

or lose custody because you have some questions on the sudden change in your child
https://nypost.com/2022/02/26/dad-lost-custody-after-questioning-sons-transgender-identity/

https://www.courthousenews.com/fath...s-house-to-outlaw-child-gender-reassignments/


In before the "that does not happen, you are being lied too" starts piling up.