All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Farb]

You win some lose some.

Should a kid be suspended from school because another kid demands to be called 'they'?

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

To clarify: I get the grammatically correct use of 'they,' but I think the non-binary identification thing is pushing things a bit too far in the silly direction. And I'm pretty socially liberal. At the end of the day do I care if someone wants to be referred to as 'they/them?' No. But I will heavily roll my eyes about it.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Should a kid be suspended from school because another kid demands to be called 'they'?

In all honesty Farb, this is not the kind of thing I get into. So, I can't really argue it one way or the other. My only interest was in the use of they.

 

[Farb]

In all honesty Farb, this is not the kind of thing I get into. So, I can't really argue it one way or the other. My only interest was in the use of they.

Understood. This is my kind of thing that I like to get into and discuss but I appreciate that most people don't care about it and it gets mundane.
Have a great weekend BullSheetBuddha!

 

[brandon]

At the end of the day do I care if someone wants to be referred to as 'they/them?' No. But I will heavily roll my eyes about it.

How do you feel if a trans person whose name used to be, say, Stephanie, wants to now go by Stephen?

If you're willing to use their preferred proper noun, then why not their preferred pronoun?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Should a kid be suspended from school because another kid demands to be called 'they'?

A student was suspended because their classmate demanded to be called by a pronoun other than he or she?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

If you have a problem with being wrong, you'll have to take it up with the OED, Collins, Cambridge, Merriam-Webster, and nearly a milennia of usage.

A laugh react is all you can manage, @Farb ? Who do you think is correct on the topic of singular they, you or every major dictionary, lexicographer, and centuries of literary and common use?

 

[Farb]

A student was suspended because their classmate demanded to be called by a pronoun other than he or she?

No. The student was brought up on charges for sexual harassments for not using the pronouns demanded by a trans student.
I assume they were suspended for title 9 but the lawyers will make some money now to figure it out.

Sexual assault charges for not using 'they' because someone demands it. Crazy town

 

[Farb]

A laugh react is all you can manage, @Farb ? Who do you think is correct on the topic of singular they, you or every major dictionary, lexicographer, and centuries of literary and common use?

If Samantha demands that I call her 'they' she is a nut job. They don't have that emoji.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

How do you feel if a trans person whose name used to be, say, Stephanie, wants to now go by Stephen?

If you're willing to use their preferred proper noun, then why not their preferred pronoun?

Wouldn't Stephen then be a 'he?'

 

[cuddlemonkey]

If Samantha demands that I call her 'they' she is a nut job. They don't have that emoji.

We aren't discussing preferred pronouns for gender, Farb. I made it quite clear that this is about your claim that 'they' is not a singular pronoun. This is the kind of bullshirt that shows how much of a troll you are. You either made the statement knowing full well that it was wrong (like the vast majority of English speakers) or you had no idea you were wrong and now refuse to admit it when shown overwhelming proof that you are, in fact, wrong.

Also, being trans is not a mental illness. This board would be a better place if posters would show some level of respect and courtesy.

 

[brandon]

Wouldn't Stephen then be a 'he?'

That wasn’t the question I asked. The question was if you’re willing to substitute a proper noun for the proper noun they prefer, then why not a pronoun they prefer?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

No. The student was brought up on charges for sexual harassments for not using the pronouns demanded by a trans student.
I assume they were suspended for title 9 but the lawyers will make some money now to figure it out.

Sexual assault charges for not using 'they' because someone demands it. Crazy town

These are two completely different things. You are aware of this fact, right?

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

That wasn’t the question I asked. The question was if you’re willing to substitute a proper noun for the proper noun they prefer, then why not a pronoun they prefer?

Because I, personally, think it's silly to claim you are neither a man nor a woman. If you're trans then... isn't the end goal to be the other gender? I'm not claiming to be the arbiter of civility on this issue, just telling you the point at which I think political correctness goes to far. To me, it's not a problem. To society... you just have to look at the current state of the GOP to realize that apparently some people can be pushed too far with some of this stuff.

 

[coldseat]

Because I, personally, think it's silly to claim you are neither a man nor a woman. If you're trans then... isn't the end goal to be the other gender? I'm not claiming to be the arbiter of civility on this issue, just telling you the point at which I think political correctness goes to far. To me, it's not a problem. To society... you just have to look at the current state of the GOP to realize that apparently some people can be pushed too far with some of this stuff.

While the term nonbinary is relatively new, being non-binary is not. It's existed throughout history under different names/expression. Even today how different people who identify as nonbinary, express being nonbinary is very varied. It's just a catch all term for a lot of different gender expressions that vary from traditional male to female gender roles. It doesn't change your biology to identify as non-binary.

I really don't understand why this is so scarry, offensive or stupid to some people, but ambiguity seems to be very challenging for a lot of people.

 

[Optimus Prime]

While the term nonbinary is relatively new, being non-binary is not. It's existed throughout history under different names/expression. Even today how different people who identify as nonbinary, express being nonbinary is very varied It's just a catch all term for a lot of different gender expressions that vary from traditional male to female gender roles. It doesn't change your biology to identify as non-binary.

I really don't understand why this is so scarry, offensive or stupid to some people, but ambiguity seems to be very challenging for a lot of people.

Last few months I’ve heard the Native American term meaning Two Spirits or Two Souls which goes back centuries and basically means someone who is both male and female

 

[Port City JJ]

It's obvious that anyone who thinks this is new is historically ignorant. I recall from western civ in high school that Chevalier d’Eon lived as a man and a woman. I learned about Mary Jones (Beefstake Pete), a transgendered prostitute who would wear a prosthetic vagina to perform sex for soldiers in early American Lit in college. Joan of Arc was famously non-binary. In Mesopotamia Hijra people where considered to have transcended gender and were considered neither male or female. Polynesian cultures have a third gender they call Mahu, which is gender fluid. The Sulawesi Island Bugis people in Indonesia believe 5 genders, first two are traditional males and females, then there are calalai and calabia, which we would call trans. They are born with the sex organ of one gender, but live and dress as the other, and the 5th is called bissu, which is neither male or female (nonbinary.)


Since it's observed in history, across different time tables and cultures, it's very obviously genetic, and it's who they are.

 

[Farb]

We aren't discussing preferred pronouns for gender, Farb. I made it quite clear that this is about your claim that 'they' is not a singular pronoun. This is the kind of bullshirt that shows how much of a troll you are. You either made the statement knowing full well that it was wrong (like the vast majority of English speakers) or you had no idea you were wrong and now refuse to admit it when shown overwhelming proof that you are, in fact, wrong.

Also, being trans is not a mental illness. This board would be a better place if posters would show some level of respect and courtesy.

No, we were discussing exactly preferred pronouns. I thought we were discussing the article I linked. Me thinks you realized how silly the preferred pronoun of 'they' sounds for a person and created a strawman.

When did being trans become not an mental illness?