2020 Presidential Debate - Round 1 (3 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

 

[coldseat]

I know that people are laughing at this, but from Trump's perspective he's absolutely right. I don't mean that he won the debate from any traditional perspective. He didn't win any arguments. Nobody really won the debating portion, it was a complete train wreck from begging to end.

But Trump wasn't trying to win the debate. It's absolutely clear at this point that he isn't trying to win new or independent voters. His base is engaged and they're going to turn out and vote for him. So what is he trying to do? He's trying to discourage people, especially marginally political people, from voting. In everything from the assault on mail in voting, to the voter intimidation via "poll watchers", to the postal service shenanigans, to pushing the SC nomination and the total hypocrisy of it, all of the state voter restriction efforts are all designed to limit, restrict, discourage and disenfranchise as many voters as possible. And this is all pushed and led by Trump himself. That's how he wins. In that light, the overwhelming feeling out of the debate by anybody who's not a Trump supporter is Disgust. And what are we not talking about even though infections are going up? He's not trying to defeat Jo Biden, he's trying to defeat the American populace. And he's winning.

 

[bdb13]

Unfortunately, I think it would hurt Biden if he refused to hold the next 2 debates. It would be a very small impact, but with the margins being small in a few places like Florida, I don't think that would be a good idea.

Yeah, you really don't want to do anything to rock the boat if you're Biden.. if he needs to go out there two more times and string a few words together while Trump does what he does... then just go do it, hold it together, let Trump do his clown act, and navigate this ship on home.

 

[bdb13]

I know that people are laughing at this, but from Trump's perspective he's absolutely right. I don't mean that he won the debate from any traditional perspective. He didn't win any arguments. Nobody really won the debating portion, it was a complete train wreck from begging to end.

But Trump wasn't trying to win the debate. It's absolutely clear at this point that he isn't trying to win new or independent voters. His base is engaged and they're going to turn out and vote for him. So what is he trying to do? He's trying to discourage people, especially marginally political people, from voting. In everything from the assault on mail in voting, to the voter intimidation via "poll watchers", to the postal service shenanigans, to pushing the SC nomination and the total hypocrisy of it, all of the state voter restriction efforts are all designed to limit, restrict, discourage and disenfranchise as many voters as possible. And this is all pushed and led by Trump himself. That's how he wins. In that light, the overwhelming feeling out of the debate by anybody who's not a Trump supporter is Disgust. And what are we not talking about even though infections are going up? He's not trying to defeat Jo Biden, he's trying to defeat the American populace. And he's winning.

I get what you're saying, but I really think that the risk in deciding to not participate in the last two debates outweighs the impact Trump will possibly have in discouraging voters.

Not participating gives Trump some fresh ammunition to use against Biden and I think the impact of that is too much of an unknown to roll with the risk.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I know that people are laughing at this, but from Trump's perspective he's absolutely right. I don't mean that he won the debate from any traditional perspective. He didn't win any arguments. Nobody really won the debating portion, it was a complete train wreck from begging to end.

But Trump wasn't trying to win the debate. It's absolutely clear at this point that he isn't trying to win new or independent voters. His base is engaged and they're going to turn out and vote for him. So what is he trying to do? He's trying to discourage people, especially marginally political people, from voting. In everything from the assault on mail in voting, to the voter intimidation via "poll watchers", to the postal service shenanigans, to pushing the SC nomination and the total hypocrisy of it, all of the state voter restriction efforts are all designed to limit, restrict, discourage and disenfranchise as many voters as possible. And this is all pushed and led by Trump himself. That's how he wins. In that light, the overwhelming feeling out of the debate by anybody who's not a Trump supporter is Disgust. And what are we not talking about even though infections are going up? He's not trying to defeat Jo Biden, he's trying to defeat the American populace. And he's winning.

I understand what you're saying and think there's some truth to it.

I think the bigger truth for Trump is that he is sincerely incapable of self-reflection and self-criticism. I think he genuinely believes he is always smarter and better than everyone else, primarily because he's incapable of seeing past himself at all. If you can't really see the other trees in the forest for what they are, then of course you're going to think you're the biggest, tallest, most beautiful tree.

 

[gummbo]

Unfortunately, I think it would hurt Biden if he refused to hold the next 2 debates. It would be a very small impact, but with the margins being small in a few places like Florida, I don't think that would be a good idea.

does T rump really have that power? I say let the commission change the rules and put the ball in his court and if he refuses to abide by the rules then he would be the one with the bad look or worst look if that’s even possible.

 

[bdb13]

It's amazing how scared and scarred a lot of us are because of what happened in 2016.. if you just look at the numbers Biden's in a really good position here, but damn if it doesn't feel like one wrong move will bring it tumbling down.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

It's amazing how scared and scarred a lot of us are because of what happened in 2016.. if you just look at the numbers Biden's in a really good position here, but damn if it doesn't feel like one wrong move will bring it tumbling down.

YEP.


It’s becuase in 2016, everyone and their mother predicted a Clinton victory, to the point where she thought she didnt even have to spend $$ or campsign in certain swing states.. and lots of folks who disliked the obese orange toddler just parked their butts at home and figured it was in the bag for Clinton anyway.. Almost all the polls and pundits were dead wrong, so dont anybody come to me in 2020 and tell me how ‘historically behind in the polls’ the Toddler is, or how much of a forgone conclusion it is that Joe will get it done.. They need to all shut up, save it and find a career other than polling and punditry.. ALL becuase of 2016.

 

[Infoman]

It's amazing how scared and scarred a lot of us are because of what happened in 2016.. if you just look at the numbers Biden's in a really good position here, but damn if it doesn't feel like one wrong move will bring it tumbling down.

That's because we are being bombarded with lies/half-truths 24x7 from both sides... Who the hell knows what the truth (reality) is anymore when it comes to politics - until it actually revels itself at this point?

 

[bdb13]

YEP.


It’s becuase in 2016, everyone and their mother predicted a Clinton victory, to the point where she thought she didnt even have to spend $$ or campsign in certain swing states.. and lots of folks who disliked the obese orange toddler just parked their butts at home and figured it was in the bag for Clinton anyway.. Almost all the polls and pundits were dead wrong, so dont anybody come to me in 2020 and tell me how ‘historically behind in the polls’ the Toddler is, or how much of a forgone conclusion it is that Joe will get it done.. They need to all shut up, save it and find a career other than polling and punditry.. ALL becuase of 2016.

I remember like a week or so before the election last time 538 put an article out titled "Trump is only a minor polling error from the presidency".. Nate Silver caught some hell back then because his system gave Trump about a 30% chance of victory and lots of other people thought that number was actually basically zero.. I was surprised but not absolutely stunned when Trump won.

Right this very second I'd say we're probably nearer a major polling error in order for Trump to win if we're just talking right now… but that's just right now and doesn't take into consideration Trump's BS and shenanigans to suppress votes, slow mail, etc.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

Any way you slice it, the debate was an aggregate loss for Trump. Ideally he wanted to paint Biden as 'Sleepy Joe' and confused. However, Biden did fine and, by Trump acting like a petulant child, the primary narrative out of this debate is how terrible it was/Trump's behavior. The next debate is a town hall and Trump does not do well in those because: 1) he has no command of the issues; and 2) he can't attack regular voters asking questions. Assuming Biden maintains the same level of competency, his numbers will stay the same. I doubt the third debate gets half the viewership the first one does.

 

[coldseat]

I get what you're saying, but I really think that the risk in deciding to not participate in the last two debates outweighs the impact Trump will possibly have in discouraging voters.

Not participating gives Trump some fresh ammunition to use against Biden and I think the impact of that is too much of an unknown to roll with the risk.

I wasn't really trying to suggest that Biden should or shouldn't participate in the debates. That's a 2 sides of the coin decision with both having positives and negatives. But I suspect that you're right and it probably is better for Biden to participate in the debates.

I understand what you're saying and think there's some truth to it.

I think the bigger truth for Trump is that he is sincerely incapable of self-reflection and self-criticism. I think he genuinely believes he is always smarter and better than everyone else, primarily because he's incapable of seeing past himself at all. If you can't really see the other trees in the forest for what they are, then of course you're going to think you're the biggest, tallest, most beautiful tree.

I agree that Trump is incapable of self-reflection and self-criticism, but I'm not sure that he genuinely believes that he's smarter and better than everyone. If anything, I believe he's a deeply insecure man. He boast about being better than everyone at everything, but I think he really feels inferior to people how are experts in fields and truly intelligent. He knows there are a lot of people in this country that hate and despise him. More than there are that support him. As much as he tries to tune all that out and surround himself with yes men and only listen to his propaganda news to feed his ego, the reality of things still comes through loud an clear. We got a glimpse of that from the Woodward interviews. That's why I think he understands the moment he's in and why his way to victory is to disgust as many people as possible and get them to tune out.

For the record, at this point, I still believe he will lose. While I do think people are truly disgusted and tunning out, I think we're too close to the election and they're going to vote no matter what.

 

[bdb13]

That's because we are being bombarded with lies/half-truths 24x7 from both sides... Who the hell knows what the truth (reality) is anymore when it comes to politics - until it actually revels itself at this point?

There is that, the spin from all sides definitely makes it difficult to get a handle on things without really delving into them, and even then it's difficult sometimes.

But specifically here I just really meant that without that collective experience from election night 2016 where we all went (no matter who you were for), "oh shirt, the polls were off," we'd all be thinking this thing was over and Trump has no shot.

And he might not, but it doesn't really feel like it.

 

[Taurus]

There is that, the spin from all sides definitely makes it difficult to get a handle on things without really delving into them, and even then it's difficult sometimes.

But specifically here I just really meant that without that collective experience from election night 2016 where we all went (no matter who you were for), "oh shirt, the polls were off," we'd all be thinking this thing was over and Trump has no shot.

And he might not, but it doesn't really feel like it.

It's not just 2016, though. It's knowing that polls can't account for voter suppression which we know is going to happen. Also, and most importantly, 2020 features a sitting President who is, as we speak, doing his level best to rig the election.
Everything from welcoming foreign interference to flat-out stating he won't leave if he loses has us nervous as hell.
I honestly wouldn't feel truly confident in a Biden win if he was 70 points ahead in the polls.

 

[bdb13]

It's not just 2016, though. It's knowing that polls can't account for voter suppression which we know is going to happen. Also, and most importantly, 2020 features a sitting President who is, as we speak, doing his level best to rig the election.
Everything from welcoming foreign interference to flat-out stating he won't leave if he loses has us nervous as hell.
I honestly wouldn't feel truly confident in a Biden win if he was 70 points ahead in the polls.

Yeah no doubt man.. it's all of that.. forking crazy times.

 

[CoolBrees]

So here is another person Trump said he was quoting that says that Trump is lying.

Pfizer CEO pushes back against Trump claim on vaccine timing

The head of Pfizer, one of the drugmakers racing to develop a coronavirus vaccine, told employees on Thursday he was disappointed that its work was politicized during the presidential debate and tried to reassure U.S. staff that the company won’t bend to pressure to move more quickly.

apnews.com

 

[gummbo]

Any way you slice it, the debate was an aggregate loss for Trump. Ideally he wanted to paint Biden as 'Sleepy Joe' and confused. However, Biden did fine and, by Trump acting like a petulant child, the primary narrative out of this debate is how terrible it was/Trump's behavior. The next debate is a town hall and Trump does not do well in those because: 1) he has no command of the issues; and 2) he can't attack regular voters asking questions. Assuming Biden maintains the same level of competency, his numbers will stay the same. I doubt the third debate gets half the viewership the first one does.

I disagree, these debates on like a really bad traffic accident where you can help with slow down to see if you can spot the carnage, maybe a severed hand or a finger or with any luck decapitation. Unfortunately we are a bloodthirsty society figuratively speaking of course