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100 Marines to Baghdad (Iran conflict discussion)(Reopened & Merged) (2 Viewers)

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    We’re gonna try to stay on point in this one -🤞 .

    After the Iranian admission of shooting down the Ukrainian 737, which was carrying 82 Iranian passengers, protests against the Supreme Leader have broken out.

    The UK ambassador to Iran has been arrested for talking photos of the protests. President Trump has tweeted support for the protesters in English and Farsi.


     
    samiam5211 said:
    Do you believe that killing the general is going to make Iran stop what they are doing? it is only going to make them do more of it. This action will not get the result you claim you desire. The line between tough and stupid is a fine one.

    I didn't mean to trigger you with the police comment, i was simply stating how events can be used to paint a country a certain way in the minds of people in other countries. It is wrong to assume that day to day life in Iran reflects the few events we hear about on the news.

    Since you are convinced that I'm defending Iran, you won't hear anything I say.
    Click to expand...

    No.. I hear, read others points of view.. Search for the Truth and try to make my own decision based on the facts that are before me...

    I also don;t believe that killing the General is going to make Iran stop what it's doing... But I do feel two things.. They may slow down on their attacks. and if that can happen long enough, more sanctions can have an effect.. I am not politicain nor... I don;t even know the words here. But I do feel that sooner or later the people of Iran might just want a regime change for themselves. ANd that can clearly be seen by people that have left Iran and can speak freely...
     
    Joe Okc said:
    No.. I hear, read others points of view.. Search for the Truth and try to make my own decision based on the facts that are before me...

    I also don;t believe that killing the General is going to make Iran stop what it's doing... But I do feel two things.. They may slow down on their attacks. and if that can happen long enough, more sanctions can have an effect.. I am not politicain nor... I don;t even know the words here. But I do feel that sooner or later the people of Iran might just want a regime change for themselves. ANd that can clearly be seen by people that have left Iran and can speak freely...
    Click to expand...

    care to share with us those facts before you? like links?
     
    Archies Ghost said:
    So the killing of uniformed combatants in a conflict zone is, by definition, assassination?

    And just be be a little preemptive, all military action is political.
    Click to expand...
    Definition of assassinate

    transitive verb
    1: to murder (a usually prominent person) by sudden or secret attack often for political reasons

    So what is the problem was the drone attack not secret?

    Was it not political?

    Was it not political on all kinds of levels?

    Was it done for his base rather than the greater good of the nation?

    We could also make the race and religion argument but not really needed.
     
    Joe Okc said:
    You mean like Rocket attacks on US installations?

    www.cnn.com

    US civilian contractor killed in rocket attack in Iraq | CNN Politics

    A US civilian contractor was killed Friday in a rocket attack on a base near Kirkuk, Iraq, where US service members and civilian contractors were located, an Operation Inherent Resolve spokesman confirmed.
    www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

    Your not going to defend Iran too are you?
    Click to expand...

    Thats it? thats the link that provides you all the information for you to make an informed decision? Has to be more, right?


    have you seen me defend Iran here? Now or in the past?

    What you have seen from me on this thread is wonder just what the end game is? And how does POTUS plan to get there? Because the devil is always in the details.
    I have yet to understand what this assassination accomplishes for the US.

    Deterrence? hardly. Will breaker? not even close. In fact, it galvanized that country. So you have emboldened the resolve of Iran with this strike. A country that is far more capable than throwing stones and lashes ( as you alluded to earlier ). They employ a very capable cyber warfare division. Dont forget that. Because they havent forgotten Stuxnet.

    Point being, this whole "ready.fire.aim" tactic is simply not working toward the goal of us getting out of the ME and not being the bullseye for everything they perceive the US to be behind.
     
    coldseat said:
    Again, the initial reasoning and explanation that was given by the Pentagon for this attack, was that an imminent terrorist attack was at hand.
    Click to expand...
    Which sounds a lot like “WMD” to me.
     
    The moose said:
    Definition of assassinate

    transitive verb
    1: to murder (a usually prominent person) by sudden or secret attack often for political reasons

    So what is the problem was the drone attack not secret?

    Was it not political?

    Was it not political on all kinds of levels?

    Was it done for his base rather than the greater good of the nation?

    We could also make the race and religion argument but not really needed.
    Click to expand...
    You seem to be purposely ignoring the fact that General Qassam Soleimani was a uniformed combatant in a conflict zone. Is every uniformed combatant killed by the US in Iraq an assassination? Is it an assassination only if you are told his name?
     
    efil4 said:
    In fact, it galvanized that country.
    Click to expand...

    And what evidence do you have of this? a few thousand at the Generals funeral... Do you know how many are hoping for a regime change?

    I am not going to say that this decision was right or wrong... But somebody had to plan the attacks... and something was done.. At least Trump is not just sitting by.. He gave Iran two or three passes... But they kept pushing.. and Killing Americans was just the straw that broke the camel back.
     
    Joe Okc said:
    And what evidence do you have of this? a few thousand at the Generals funeral... Do you know how many are hoping for a regime change?
    Click to expand...

    It was much closer to a million people than a few thousand.

    The people pushing for regime change now have to deal with conservatives in Iran accusing them of defending the United States.
     
    Archies Ghost said:
    You seem to be purposely ignoring the fact that General Qassam Soleimani was a uniformed combatant in a conflict zone. Is every uniformed combatant killed by the US in Iraq an assassination? Is it an assassination only if you are told his name?
    Click to expand...
    Have we declared war with Iran? Whether they are a uniformed solider or not is irrelevant if we haven't declared war with them. This did take place at the airport.
     
    Nebaghead said:
    Have we declared war with Iran? Whether they are a uniformed solider or not is irrelevant if we haven't declared war with them. This did take place at the airport.
    Click to expand...
    The United States military is operating under the AUMF in Iraq so there really is no question about authority to kill enemy combatants in theater.
     
    Archies Ghost said:
    You seem to be purposely ignoring the fact that General Qassam Soleimani was a uniformed combatant in a conflict zone. Is every uniformed combatant killed by the US in Iraq an assassination? Is it an assassination only if you are told his name?
    Click to expand...


    No it is an assassination because the guy with the fake tan and golf habbit got on TV and bragged about it. Tweeted about it.

    That is what made it political!

    If he died by mistake and we had no orange guy bragging about it then it would not be an assassination.

    It is pretty much that simple.

    We can also get it all kinds of muddy if you want. I would think this is to get his base all energized as he is facing reelection and impeachment.

    It takes to news to somewhere else not impeachment.

    Where you want to go with it is up to you?

    Are we supposed to believe that the us intelligence agencies that he has done nothing but complain about now are giving him the skinny on this dude? And he believes it?

    But at the bare minimum it is an assassination.

    As to the why part can go down many rabbit holes you don't want to go down.
     
    Archies Ghost said:
    The United States military is operating under the AUMF in Iraq so there really is no question about authority to kill enemy combatants in theater.
    Click to expand...
    I was not aware that the AUMF included Iran. This probably explains why Pence is claiming this general was directly involved in the harboring and transportation of 9/11 attackers. This was disproved by the 9/11 commission, but this WH doesn't have a problem with providing incorrect information for their supporters.

    https://apnews.com/eba793fad25f603b0fbdfa31d59118db
     
    Interesting take here: killing Soleimani was justified but a bad move . . . because he was failing.

    Iran’s strategy of gaining depth beyond its borders succeeded because it was opaque. Soleimani’s desire for credit—pictures from regional battlefields, chairing the Iraqi-government meeting that decided whether Abadi would remain in power—removed the plausible deniability of Iranian orchestration, activating nationalistic antibodies in Iraq and Lebanon.

    It’s possible, even likely, that recent attacks by Iran on U.S. bases in Iraq were an overt attempt to distract from the validity of protests in Iraq. In that, Soleimani may have succeeded in death at what he was failing to achieve in life. Judging by the crowds at Soleimani’s funerals in Iran, his killing erased fissures between Iranians and their government, at least temporarily.
    Iraq, meanwhile, may well determine that it’s more secure without U.S. forces. Trump’s threat not to leave Iraq unless remunerated for the cost of bases built in that country are damaging to the relationship. Who wants that kind of friend?

    Losing the strategist of Iranian proxy warfare would be a cheap price to pay for Iran to achieve a rapprochement between the government and its people, and a U.S. exit from Iraq. That’s especially the case since the proxy strategy may have been reaching its limits under Soleimani, and he’d created a capable cadre of deputies.
    Click to expand...


    www.theatlantic.com

    Soleimani Was Failing

    Trump should have left Soleimani alive and in place, but made him operationally ineffective by killing his deputies.
    www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
     
    Nebaghead said:
    I was not aware that the AUMF included Iran. This probably explains why Pence is claiming this general was directly involved in the harboring and transportation of 9/11 attackers. This was disproved by the 9/11 commission, but this WH doesn't have a problem with providing incorrect information for their supporters.

    https://apnews.com/eba793fad25f603b0fbdfa31d59118db
    Click to expand...


    (a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
    Click to expand...

    I don't really see how the AUMF should be applicable to any of the current operations we have going on.

    None of the people we are fighting planned, authorized, committed, or aided any of the terrorists involved with the attacks on 911.
     

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