Canada effectively bans assault weapons after NS shooting (1 Viewer)

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    Joe Okc said:
    Your view on life at 37 and 57 will be too different things...




    You can thank a million dead Russians and Stalingrad for that one.



    What was the saying from Yamato, if we have to invade America there will be a gun behind every blade of grass.
    Click to expand...

    Remember, if there were no blades of grass then you couldn't hide the guns that don't exist behind them...or something....your lack of logic here is...stunning....
     
    Dadsdream said:
    Number of times I've fired a pump shotgun - 1 time, for familiarization in Marine Corps boot camp, 1975.
    Number of times I've fired a 5.56 mm M-16A1 or M-16A2 - Thousands upon thousands, qualified senior trainer, master assessor and range control NCO, US Army.

    With a pump shotgun, I'm more of a danger to myself than an intruder.
    With AR-15, the weapon is an extension of my body. I don't even have to think to use it effectively.

    No, sadly, I don't own one. It's a part of me that's slowly fading away, like the old soldier MacArthur mentioned in his farewell speech.

    But I do have a .22 LR Glenfield semi-automatic with a 20-round tube magazine. :)
    Click to expand...

    Sounds like you and Paul Harrell would get along. He's always stressed that the best gun to use is the one you know best and have trained with. Just that, we are also responsible for every round that comes out of it.
     
    Joe Okc said:
    Right.. People with guns saved other people... as in the case I linked of the OKC restaurant and also the Texas Church shooter was taken out by a good guy with a gun that saved more people.
    Click to expand...

    I agree, people with guns have saved other people.

    People with guns have also also killed other people.

    Can you agree that both statements are of equal validity?
     
    samiam5211 said:
    I agree, people with guns have saved other people.

    People with guns have also also killed other people.

    Can you agree that both statements are of equal validity?
    Click to expand...

    Sure... on the surface both of those are equal... But the main thing that you pointed out is that it depends on the intent of the person with the gun to begin with. Therefore instead of passing new laws, those laws already on the books should be enforced more thoroughly.
     
    The moose said:
    But then again you are scared of rappers and video gammer's coming for ya. I get your fear. Rappers are effecting your happiness also but your odds are not near that of another mass shooting at a school or church.
    Click to expand...

    I stand way more of a chance of being attacked, shot or mugged by a bunch of hooligans going to 7-11 at midnight for a 6 pack, than I do being shot by a mass murderer in Walmart...

    and you know that is the truth.



    The moose said:
    Scared school children and their parents most definitely don't share your opinion. The easy supply of ar15s and the like make them live in fear and certainly effect the whole happiness bit.
    Click to expand...

    Kids huh? all these kids were shot this week alone...

    HOUSTON -- A 5-year-old has died a week after he was hit by a stray bullet while playing on his family's balcony

    CHESTER, Pennsylvania A 7-year-old boy is dead following a shooting Sunday night in Chester, Pennsylvania.

    PHILADELPHIA -- Philadelphia police are investigating a shooting that injured five people, including a toddler and his young mother Monday night.

    CHICAGO (WLS) -- A 17-year-old girl has died after she was shot while standing in a vacant lot in Chicago's Englewood neighborhood.



    and Meet 1 year old Dijon Walker.

    dijon.jpg


    Ole Dijon is no stranger to shootings.. Not only was he shot in the head. But his mother was also shot a few months earlier, and his little brother's father was shot and killed as well....

    and not a single one of them was shot by an old man with an AR15.. Nope... All by young punks with handguns gangbanging.

    So if you are really worried about the children... Maybe it's time you and others actually spoke up about the truth the real problem with gun violence in this country...

    Because this crap is happening daily....
     
    Joe Okc said:
    I stand way more of a chance of being attacked, shot or mugged by a bunch of hooligans going to 7-11 at midnight for a 6 pack, than I do being shot by a mass murderer in Walmart...

    and you know that is the truth.





    Kids huh? all these kids were shot this week alone...

    HOUSTON -- A 5-year-old has died a week after he was hit by a stray bullet while playing on his family's balcony

    CHESTER, Pennsylvania A 7-year-old boy is dead following a shooting Sunday night in Chester, Pennsylvania.

    PHILADELPHIA -- Philadelphia police are investigating a shooting that injured five people, including a toddler and his young mother Monday night.

    CHICAGO (WLS) -- A 17-year-old girl has died after she was shot while standing in a vacant lot in Chicago's Englewood neighborhood.



    and Meet 1 year old Dijon Walker.

    dijon.jpg


    Ole Dijon is no stranger to shootings.. Not only was he shot in the head. But his mother was also shot a few months earlier, and his little brother's father was shot and killed as well....

    and not a single one of them was shot by an old man with an AR15.. Nope... All by young punks with handguns gangbanging.

    So if you are really worried about the children... Maybe it's time you and others actually spoke up about the truth the real problem with gun violence in this country...

    Because this crap is happening daily....
    Click to expand...
    The real problem is that all guns are effective killing tools and we need to place restrictions on all guns, not just AR-15s.

    Glad you pointed that out for us.
     
    Joe Okc said:
    I stand way more of a chance of being attacked, shot or mugged by a bunch of hooligans going to 7-11 at midnight for a 6 pack, than I do being shot by a mass murderer in Walmart...

    and you know that is the truth.





    Kids huh? all these kids were shot this week alone...

    HOUSTON -- A 5-year-old has died a week after he was hit by a stray bullet while playing on his family's balcony

    CHESTER, Pennsylvania A 7-year-old boy is dead following a shooting Sunday night in Chester, Pennsylvania.

    PHILADELPHIA -- Philadelphia police are investigating a shooting that injured five people, including a toddler and his young mother Monday night.

    CHICAGO (WLS) -- A 17-year-old girl has died after she was shot while standing in a vacant lot in Chicago's Englewood neighborhood.



    and Meet 1 year old Dijon Walker.

    dijon.jpg


    Ole Dijon is no stranger to shootings.. Not only was he shot in the head. But his mother was also shot a few months earlier, and his little brother's father was shot and killed as well....

    and not a single one of them was shot by an old man with an AR15.. Nope... All by young punks with handguns gangbanging.

    So if you are really worried about the children... Maybe it's time you and others actually spoke up about the truth the real problem with gun violence in this country...

    Because this crap is happening daily....
    Click to expand...
    But can part of the analysis make room for the possibility that it is far too easy for "young punks" to get guns?

    Is that possible?

    And if so, does the easy access to guns in this country generally contribute to that?

    A few months ago, I sold a 9mm handgun to a friend of mine. No background check - nothing. I know he's not a criminal, but a lot of people that can pass a background check may not have the same ethics as I do.
     
    not2rich said:
    But can part of the analysis make room for the possibility that it is far too easy for "young punks" to get guns?

    Is that possible?

    And if so, does the easy access to guns in this country generally contribute to that?

    A few months ago, I sold a 9mm handgun to a friend of mine. No background check - nothing. I know he's not a criminal, but a lot of people that can pass a background check may not have the same ethics as I do.
    Click to expand...

    Why the young punks in quotes, are they upstanding citizens in your eyes?

    And by the way, I bet all of the guns that killed those kids were not obtained legally, but yet what you want to do is put laws on the books, that CRIMINALS will never obey.

    This is the one thing I will never get, liberals wanting to take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, which just makes it easier for criminals to run around with their illegally obtained guns and not worry about their victims being able to shoot them instead.
     
    Joe Okc said:
    Because this crap is happening daily....
    Click to expand...

    I'm glad you seem to care as much about gun violence as I do. It tears apart families in the blink of an eye every day in America. We can't act like the weapons aren't part of the issue.

    Would you then agree that we need to take action? Sure, the majority of gun violence is committed with handguns. Why not stricter oversight, background checks, etc. for these so that the number of unnecessary deaths decreases? I think even one less death or less injury is more than worth it.
     
    Intensesaint said:
    Why the young punks in quotes, are they upstanding citizens in your eyes?

    And by the way, I bet all of the guns that killed those kids were not obtained legally, but yet what you want to do is put laws on the books, that CRIMINALS will never obey.

    This is the one thing I will never get, liberals wanting to take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, which just makes it easier for criminals to run around with their illegally obtained guns and not worry about their victims being able to shoot them instead.
    Click to expand...

    What I will never get is this renegade, wild west dream a lot of conservatives have about how people and the guns they use coexist.

    Would you agree that stripping gun laws like many Republicans want to do would just invite chaos? Surely nothing anyone would want from to worry about in a civilized society. Yeah, there's always that chance..but this aversion to any and all attempts to make purchasing and owning a gun a safer process for all makes no sense for both gun owners and non-gun owners alike. It's about cutting down on the numbers, not 'pie in the sky solving everything'.

    Let's be clear.

    I'm not taking anyone's guns. Obama wasn't coming for anyone's guns. But folks, don't cry wolf whenever millions of Americans sick and tired of gun violence want more common sense regulation all the while the GOP in Washington insist on trying to deregulate everything into oblivion with this free market, Ayn Rand libertarianism fantasy they subscribe to. We'll reach a tipping point eventually, and the momentum is on this side.
     
    Last edited:
    Dadsdream said:
    Let's start from the top.

    Assault Rifle - Fully automatic. Illegal in the US since the 1930s.

    Assault Weapon - A layman's description used for firearms that share characteristics with military firearms such as pistol grip, magazine, bayonet stub. Not a valid technical or legal term.

    Automatic - So long as the trigger is held down, the weapon fires until it runs out of ammo or the barrel melts.

    Semi-automatic - One trigger squeeze fires one round and loads the next round.

    Assault Weapons Ban - A law enacted in the US in the 1990s to ban certain models semi-automatic weapons which shared characteristics with military weapons. Since it banned specific brands and models, foreign gun makers quickly set up shops to produce mass quantities of knockoffs with different names and superficial changes. The effect was to flood the market with cheaper, lower quality firearms and drive quality US makers out of business. The ban expired and was not renewed.

    So, the Canadian ban names 1500 specific models. Perhaps they'll have better luck with that than we did.

    Firearms were created to kill people on the battlefield. All firearms share that lineage and history. In the eyes of arms experts and military historians, to say you're going to ban certain firearms because they are only designed to kill people means banning all firearms because that's what firearms were originally meant to do.

    I do wish the Canadians well in their efforts.

    The only really effective way to deal with it that I have seen in my life is Australia's ban on all semi-automatic weapons.

    Let's keep in mind, we took our freedom from the British at gunpoint with force of arms in 1776.
    Australia had to wait until the British granted them commonwealth status in the 1940s.

    Eventually, we're going to have to do something. In the 1930s, we banned automatic weapons. It's time to revisit semi-automatic weapons.
    Click to expand...

    Great post. I see two paths: ban semi-automatics or ban capacity. Both remove ambiguity by providing clear design criteria or numbers to set standards. The “benefit” of capacity bans are that people keep the guns they already possess and manufacturers can sell their existing models. I think an immediate ban on sales with a two year buyback period for magazines is a reasonable route. The public support for capacity bans is at 62%. There is also public health information to support capacity bans.

    ajph.aphapublications.org

    The American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) from the American Public Health Association (APHA) publications

    Objectives. To evaluate the effect of large-capacity magazine (LCM) bans on the frequency and lethality of high-fatality mass shootings in the United States. Methods. We analyzed state panel data of high-fatality mass shootings from 1990 to 2017. We first assessed the relationship between LCM...
    ajph.aphapublications.org

    Results. Between 1990 and 2017, there were 69 high-fatality mass shootings. Attacks involving LCMs resulted in a 62% higher mean average death toll. The incidence of high-fatality mass shootings in non–LCM ban states was more than double the rate in LCM ban states; the annual number of deaths was more than 3 times higher. In multivariate analyses, states without an LCM ban experienced significantly more high-fatality mass shootings and a higher death rate from such incidents.
    Click to expand...
     
    Intensesaint said:
    Why the young punks in quotes, are they upstanding citizens in your eyes?

    And by the way, I bet all of the guns that killed those kids were not obtained legally, but yet what you want to do is put laws on the books, that CRIMINALS will never obey.

    This is the one thing I will never get, liberals wanting to take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, which just makes it easier for criminals to run around with their illegally obtained guns and not worry about their victims being able to shoot them instead.
    Click to expand...


    Ok here it is most guns used by real criminals are obtained by a straw purchase not stolen guns.

    Yes bad gun owners get plenty stolen but the vast majority are purchased by legal people to turn profit selling them to criminals hence the straw purchase.

    The gun rights people fight the number and way you can sell a legal gun that in turn fuels criminals.

    Limit numbers of guns a person that doesn't own a gun range can purchase in a given time. Then background checks on used sales. It fixes some of the problems with the urban handgun issues.

    Take the real profit out because that criminal with his gun sideways is not the real criminal here it is the guy that bought fifty guns legally in Texas at one time in one day and sold them all to the guys that can't shoot or buy guns legally.

    But I guess you gun rights people don't want to hear that do ya?
     
    Heathen said:
    What I will never get is this renegade, wild west dream a lot of conservatives have about how people and the guns they use coexist.

    Would you agree that stripping gun laws like many Republicans want to do would just invite chaos? Surely nothing anyone would want from to worry about in a civilized society. Yeah, there's always that chance..but this aversion to any and all attempts to make purchasing and owning a gun a safer process for all makes no sense for both gun owners and non-gun owners alike. It's about cutting down on the numbers, not 'pie in the sky solving everything'.

    Let's be clear.

    I'm not taking anyone's guns. Obama wasn't coming for anyone's guns. But folks, don't cry wolf whenever millions of Americans sick and tired of gun violence want more common sense regulation all the while the GOP in Washington insist on trying to deregulate everything into oblivion with this free market, Ayn Rand libertarianism fantasy they subscribe to. We'll reach a tipping point eventually, and the momentum is on this side.
    Click to expand...

    I wouldn't count on the whole momentum thing during the middle of a pandemic where:

    1. At one point we were being told that the manpower for police departments could become critically low due to infection;

    2. Certain jurisdictions were releasing inmates due to a fear that the virus would spread within prisons/jails; and

    3. Courts have been reluctant to jail people as opposed to setting a hearing for a later date.

    Gun sales have risen as people have perceived that their ability to rely on the police for protection was being diminished at the very time it looked like the circumstances were ripe for lawlessness.
     
    B4YOU said:
    Great post. I see two paths: ban semi-automatics or ban capacity. Both remove ambiguity by providing clear design criteria or numbers to set standards. The “benefit” of capacity bans are that people keep the guns they already possess and manufacturers can sell their existing models. I think an immediate ban on sales with a two year buyback period for magazines is a reasonable route. The public support for capacity bans is at 62%. There is also public health information to support capacity bans.

    ajph.aphapublications.org

    The American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) from the American Public Health Association (APHA) publications

    Objectives. To evaluate the effect of large-capacity magazine (LCM) bans on the frequency and lethality of high-fatality mass shootings in the United States. Methods. We analyzed state panel data of high-fatality mass shootings from 1990 to 2017. We first assessed the relationship between LCM...
    ajph.aphapublications.org
    Click to expand...
    Know what a magazine is? A box, a spring, a top, a bottom, and maybe a follower/keeper. That's it. You can 3D print them now.
    In third world countries, they're pumping them out by the millions using the most rudimentary tools and skills.
    Writing the legal language to outlaw something that is only made of four or five simple parts is extremely difficult if not impossible.

    1588807427151.png
     
    The moose said:
    Ok here it is most guns used by real criminals are obtained by a straw purchase not stolen guns.

    Yes bad gun owners get plenty stolen but the vast majority are purchased by legal people to turn profit selling them to criminals hence the straw purchase.

    The gun rights people fight the number and way you can sell a legal gun that in turn fuels criminals.

    Limit numbers of guns a person that doesn't own a gun range can purchase in a given time. Then background checks on used sales. It fixes some of the problems with the urban handgun issues.

    Take the real profit out because that criminal with his gun sideways is not the real criminal here it is the guy that bought fifty guns legally in Texas at one time in one day and sold them all to the guys that can't shoot or buy guns legally.

    But I guess you gun rights people don't want to hear that do ya?
    Click to expand...

    What is a real criminal? You said used by real criminals.

    And you do realize that a criminal is also the person buying the gun legally and then selling the gun in a straw purchase.

    I am talking about law abiding citizens. People who engage in a straw purchase are criminals, both the buyer and seller.
     
    The guy with the gun sideways is not the real criminal? Depends on what the hell he is doing.
     
    Intensesaint said:
    What is a real criminal? You said used by real criminals.

    And you do realize that a criminal is also the person buying the gun legally and then selling the gun in a straw purchase.

    I am talking about law abiding citizens. People who engage in a straw purchase are criminals, both the buyer and seller.
    Click to expand...
    Yet gun rights advocates fight for you to be able to buy multiple non hunting guns at a time? Why to enable the criminals?

    Only one state has a limit of one non hunting gun per month.

    Shut the loopholes. Kill the 80% gun kits, straw sales get killed with background checks on used sales, it is not hard.

    Yet we constantly hear about how your freedoms as a gun owner are being stomped on? Really when it takes more paperwork to sell a used moped.
     
    Beach Friends said:
    I wouldn't count on the whole momentum thing during the middle of a pandemic where:

    1. At one point we were being told that the manpower for police departments could become critically low due to infection;

    2. Certain jurisdictions were releasing inmates due to a fear that the virus would spread within prisons/jails; and

    3. Courts have been reluctant to jail people as opposed to setting a hearing for a later date.

    Gun sales have risen as people have perceived that their ability to rely on the police for protection was being diminished at the very time it looked like the circumstances were ripe for lawlessness.
    Click to expand...

    That's a good point, but outside of the virus situation we continue to have mass shootings year after year which serve as a grim reminder to how desensitized to gun violence we are in this country. Heck, we blow up entire homes full of families in the middle east year after year and no one here bats an eye..It is tough to tackle a problem as the American public when you don't see it as abnormal.
     

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