Long term changes from the pandemic?? (1 Viewer)

GMRfellowtraveller · Mar 14, 2020

do you anticipate any long term changes in this country?
for the most part, i'm not sure we've responded to crisis moments very well - 9/11 did not have a lasting change (we're still fighting a war against people who did not attack us); Katrina? i still can't tell if the response to Katrina is a net positive; there have been a number of infrastructural disasters, but i don't think we've committed to overhauling failing infrastructure; we certainly learned precious few lessons from the banking collapse...
so i don't really foresee us learning any sort of lesson here

HOWEVER, i do think there is any opportunity for significant changes
Healthcare is the obvious one - no need to dig too deep on that one'
Universal Basic Income - i think the upcoming month will show the benefit of UBI - 10,000s of families needing to scramble/adapt with out of school kids and the big hurt that's coming for the gig economy (and the fact that the bipartisan virus bill only covers about 20% of workers for sick leave) and the other 'law of unintended consequences' we're about to discover would be eased tremendously by a UBI
IF we had a UBI, businesses could be a bit more flexible/redundant in their staffing practices - flexible 4 day work weeks would make it easier for families to adapt/respond to crises

i could forsee big accelerations to the work from home economy and LOTS more delivery services

thoughts?

SaintForLife · Mar 17, 2020

Brandon13 said:
It's a national crisis that has been undeniably exacerbated by Trump and his instincts/cohorts that told him this was a hoax while continuing his own political attacks while we were losing valuable time in combatting this.

Obviously it's good he came around but it was way late and I don't know what damage we're doing or why there'd be a problem in criticizing Trump on a political message board.

Despite what Trump was saying publicly about it initially, things were still moving behind the scences with the CDC and other relevant agencies. I criticized what Trump was saying about it initially.

Stop repeating the lie that Trump said the Coronavirus was a hoax. He said that the Democrats criticizing his response was their newest hoax. Charlottesville 2.0.

Maybe I missed it, but can you point out exactly how Trump exacerbated the spread of Coronavirus. I'm not talking about the stupid things he said about it orginally. Is there real tangible proof that the virus spread faster because of Trump?

SaintForLife · Mar 17, 2020

The moose said:
The lack of masks has not one thing to do with China.

It has to do with profit. If you spend capital on what the heck might happen it looks bad on the bottom line.

That is free market not China

It's almost like you are unable to read someone's entire post. I referenced profit. Also:

The shortage, Kreg Koford, senior vice president of supply chain and sustaining care, told employees, is due to production and distribution delays in China, where most personal protective equipment, or PPE, is manufactured.

A Top Cancer Hospital Faces Mask Shortages As COVID-19 Cases Show Up In Staff And Patients

According to internal emails and a transcript of a staff meeting, at least three patients and five staff members have been diagnosed with the coronavirus. The hospital has a one-week supply of masks. Other hospitals around the country are facing similar circumstances.

www.buzzfeednews.com

bdb13 · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Despite what Trump was saying publicly about it initially, things were still moving behind the scences with the CDC and other relevant agencies. I criticized what Trump was saying about it initially.

Stop repeating the lie that Trump said the Coronavirus was a hoax. He said that the Democrats criticizing his response was their newest hoax. Charlottesville 2.0.

Maybe I missed it, but can you point out exactly how Trump exacerbated the spread of Coronavirus. I'm not talking about the stupid things he said about it orginally. Is there real tangible proof that the virus spread faster because of Trump?

Clearly this was not their latest hoax.

And yeah, if he had acted decisively and shut down travel weeks ago when it was obvious we had a problem on the way, it would have helped.

Instead, we only shut down China and Trump called that mission accomplished while countries whose people we were still allowing to come in were having their own outbreaks.

Edit: And I didn't repeat a lie. Here's the transcript: https://www.rev.com/blog/transcript...th-carolina-rally-transcript-february-28-2020

coldseat · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Man. You guys can't even take a break from political attacks even during a national crisis.

If you guys had headed our warnings about this guy when we weren't in a crisis and electing our leader, maybe we wouldn't be where we are right now. But now we need to be silent and unite and just forget that the last 4 years have been constant division? .

I'm glad he's finally taking this seriously and is showing some measure of humility this morning (we'll see how long that last), but lets not act like he wasn't blaming the last administration for this and acting like everything was going to be honky dory just yesterday. It's taken him a long time, increasing virus spread in the US and increasing deaths in the US to finally get him to come back to reality and act appropriately.

insidejob · Mar 17, 2020

coldseat said:
but lets not act like he wasn't blaming the last administration for this and acting like everything was going to be honky dory just yesterday.

And doing so after completely dismantling Obama's rapid response team that was put together to handle something just like this.

coldseat · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Maybe I missed it, but can you point out exactly how Trump exacerbated the spread of Coronavirus. I'm not talking about the stupid things he said about it orginally. Is there real tangible proof that the virus spread faster because of Trump?

The major issue is with testing. It has taken way to long to set up testing, get it distributed, and make sure we were testing a high capacity. Without the testing, we had no vision on how the virus was entering the country, how to clamp down on it and where it was spreading. We were guessing and wishfully hoping for months when we should have been preparing with ramping up testing, acquisition and stockpiling of PPE and doing our best to prevent community spread. That would have flattened our curve substantially. Our lack of preparation is a reflection of how lackadaisical Trump was in addressing this in crisis before it became a full flown crisis.

He's also largely responsible for the many people who still believe this isn't a big deal.

The moose · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
It's almost like you are unable to read someone's entire post. I referenced profit. Also:

The shortage, Kreg Koford, senior vice president of supply chain and sustaining care, told employees, is due to production and distribution delays in China, where most personal protective equipment, or PPE, is manufactured.

A Top Cancer Hospital Faces Mask Shortages As COVID-19 Cases Show Up In Staff And Patients
According to internal emails and a transcript of a staff meeting, at least three patients and five staff members have been diagnosed with the coronavirus. The hospital has a one-week supply of masks. Other hospitals around the country are facing similar circumstances.
www.buzzfeednews.com

No Skippy.

Free market health care makes it a buy as needed problem. Cross your friggin fingers type of stuff rather than be prepared.

Being proactive costs money. So back when this problem was announced originally supplies should have been ordered and you don't have this problem.

But if you do it that is forking the shareholders out of profit.

They 3m has a factory in Aberdeen, South Dakota that has 650 employees that is working around the clock.

So let's blame China. Not the bean counters that order them.

Saintamaniac · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Stop repeating the lie that Trump said the Coronavirus was a hoax. He said that the Democrats criticizing his response was their newest hoax. Charlottesville 2.0.

Newsflash! If he's saying it's their latest hoax, he's saying it's a hoax. Sorry that people repeating what he said bothers you so. And let's drop this kumbaya let's come together BS. We wouldn't be in the situation we are in now if trump was half the man you and his supporters think he is. All of his lies and stupidity have come to roost and people will die because of it. If it weren't for the stupids who believed every word out his mouth, the problem wouldn't have been spread so rapidly. But you have a whole group of the most vulnerable and most faithful lemmings just hanging on his every word and believing everything he says. I have zero sympathy for that group. None. You play stupid games, you earn stupid prizes.

SaintForLife · Mar 17, 2020

Brandon13 said:
Clearly this was not their latest hoax.

And yeah, if he had acted decisively and shut down travel weeks ago when it was obvious we had a problem on the way, it would have helped.

Instead, we only shut down China and Trump called that mission accomplished while countries whose people we were still allowing to come in were having their own outbreaks.

Edit: And I didn't repeat a lie. Here's the transcript: https://www.rev.com/blog/transcript...th-carolina-rally-transcript-february-28-2020

Did President Trump Refer to the Coronavirus as a 'Hoax'?

Trump's commentary on the new coronavirus came before the virus began killing patients in the U.S.

www.snopes.com

coldseat · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Did President Trump Refer to the Coronavirus as a 'Hoax'?
Trump's commentary on the new coronavirus came before the virus began killing patients in the U.S.
www.snopes.com

That's not any better. Neither the virus nor the Democrat's criticism where a hoax. The Democrats where trying to raise the alarm bells and warn us all of what was coming and spur the administration into action. Trump was downplaying everything and lying like he normally does.

Beach Friends · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
There has been a shortage of tests so they've had to reserve them for the sickest patients. In the hospitals I work at they are designating certain nurses and therapists to only take care of the Covid 19 patients. They are in the process of ramping up testing now.

The biggest concern seems to be the hospital system being overwhelmed instead of mass casualties. There are not enough ICU beds, ventilators, and personal protective equipment for hospital workers. We will run out of the N-95 masks that are required to treat these patients. We can only get one of those masks for an entire shift only if you are directly caring for a Covid 19 patient.

It also shows how we shouldn't be getting all of our medicine, and personal protective equipment from China. The chase of profits by companies moving their production of goods has made us rely on China for almost everything.

Yep, our dependance on China has to stop especially in light of their threat to cut us off from the medical supplies we are currently getting from them.

We needed to do that anyway, but their threat just highlighted the issue even more. It was stupid on their part and arguably out of character. They generally are smarter than that and would prefer us to focus on the Russian "threat" while the position themselves for dominance over the long run.

bdb13 · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Did President Trump Refer to the Coronavirus as a 'Hoax'?
Trump's commentary on the new coronavirus came before the virus began killing patients in the U.S.
www.snopes.com

Yes, Trump said the hoopla and criticism were a Democratic hoax and then he reeled off flu statistics to downplay this virus.

I never said nor intended to imply that Trump said the coronavirus itself was not a real thing that existed.

SaintForLife · Mar 17, 2020

coldseat said:
The major issue is with testing. It has taken way to long to set up testing, get it distributed, and make sure we were testing a high capacity. Without the testing, we had no vision on how the virus was entering the country, how to clamp down on it and where it was spreading. We were guessing and wishfully hoping for months when we should have been preparing with ramping up testing, acquisition and stockpiling of PPE and doing our best to prevent community spread. That would have flattened our curve substantially. Our lack of preparation is a reflection of how lackadaisical Trump was in addressing this in crisis before it became a full flown crisis.

He's also largely responsible for the many people who still believe this isn't a big deal.

Can you point out any article or anything else that shows Trump was responsible for delaying the testing?

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

Why the CDC botched its coronavirus testing

The first testing kits from the Centers for Disease Control had a simple fault, and red tape prevented other labs from creating their own.

www.google.com

The moose · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Can you point out any article or anything else that shows Trump was responsible for delaying the testing?

Redirect Notice
www.google.com

Why the CDC botched its coronavirus testing
The first testing kits from the Centers for Disease Control had a simple fault, and red tape prevented other labs from creating their own.
www.google.com

Ahhh maybe the pandemic response team he dismantled?

I think by name alone they would have been more on the ball. Ya know like getting tests right early.

I guess a pandemic response team would not be helpful leading up to a world wide pandemic.

But by all means continue to try and defend the dude.

SaintForLife · Mar 17, 2020

The moose said:
Ahhh maybe the pandemic response team he dismantled?

I think by name alone they would have been more on the ball. Ya know like getting tests right early.

I guess a pandemic response team would not be helpful leading up to a world wide pandemic.

But by all means continue to try and defend the dude.

Try to keep up. We are talking about the problem with the lack of Coronavirus tests. Reading comprehension is hard. Did that pandemic team have experience with making tests for Coronavirus?

not2rich · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Despite what Trump was saying publicly about it initially, things were still moving behind the scences with the CDC and other relevant agencies. I criticized what Trump was saying about it initially.

Stop repeating the lie that Trump said the Coronavirus was a hoax. He said that the Democrats criticizing his response was their newest hoax. Charlottesville 2.0.

Maybe I missed it, but can you point out exactly how Trump exacerbated the spread of Coronavirus. I'm not talking about the stupid things he said about it orginally. Is there real tangible proof that the virus spread faster because of Trump?

What's been missing for weeks is any sense of urgency or leadership. Lack of testing ability made it more likely the virus was spreading undetected and unabated once community spread was confirmed to be happening. At that point, leadership should have been emphasizing the need to begin practicing social distancing and preparing for sheltering in place. Keep in mind that state and local authorities began taking serious action before Trump started basically following their lead. Instead of taking the matter as seriously as state and local governments, Trump and FNC Prime Time spent weeks minimizing the threat and mocking the idea of taking it seriously.

Trump Is Lying, Blatantly

“I’ve always viewed it as very serious," the president said about the coronavirus on Tuesday. But his past statements show otherwise.

www.theatlantic.com

Suddenly, though, it's a crisis after all, but it's really the fault of China, and Trump has been doing an amazing job. Please. Look, I'm glad Trump seems to finally be taking it seriously and I LIKED what I heard in the news conference today. But if you or anyone else wants to write some revisionist history on the supposed competence of the Trump WH before the last few days, I'm calling BS.

The moose · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Try to keep up. We are talking about the problem with the lack of Coronavirus tests. Reading comprehension is hard. Did that pandemic team have experience with making tests for Coronavirus?

Ok so you think a pandemic team would not?

I guess the pray the gay away pence is a better scientist than the pandemic response team?

I like the stupidity here it is astonishing.

They were named pandemic response team!

So you think the pandemic response team full of scientist that specializes in pandemic response yet testing would be over their heads?

Come on dude this is as pathetic as it gets.

GMRfellowtraveller · Mar 17, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Try to keep up. We are talking about the problem with the lack of Coronavirus tests. Reading comprehension is hard. Did that pandemic team have experience with making tests for Coronavirus?

really? you HAVE to see the flaw in your logic - there's no way to miss it

Long term changes from the pandemic?? (1 Viewer)

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