Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (2 Viewers)

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    Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

    Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

    As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

    Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

    How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

    Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.
     
    Incumbent said:
    It might not make sense to you but I’m not considering Christians as a monolith - not even interested in dwelling on that - but rather recognizing the conflict that exists between Christianity and liberty.

    Or expressed in the same fashion as something I’ve heard throughout my life; love the Christian, hate the Christianity.

    I’ll spend the rest of my life pushing back against the overreach of Christianity.
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    Well, I disagree that there is a conflict between Chritianity and liberty. To each his own I guess.
     
    Incumbent said:
    The last church I attended, several years ago now, was an open and affirming Presbyterian congregation. The pastor is an outspoken community leader on poverty and other social issues, they open the church and church grounds to the homeless, run a food pantry, they are providing sanctuary to a mother and her son who fled Guatemala to escape violence that claimed the lives of their family members, and the associate pastor was openly lesbian and finally got to be ordained by the governing organization shortly before she retired.

    That church is my benchmark for what it means to be Christ-like. Short of that amounts to the continuum Heathen mentioned.

    The bigotry you described isn’t nearly as uncommon as we might want to believe and is often just dressed up a lot prettier to get a pass.
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    There are churches like that. Certainly not enough of them, but yeah.
     
    Incumbent said:
    I think you have to ignore a lot of history, evidence, and the reality we find ourselves to believe that.
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    Well, I'm speaking more from my own anecdotal experience than anything else, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks Christianity is often poorly represented by a lot of well-meaning Christians.
     
    DaveXA said:
    Well, I'm speaking more from my own anecdotal experience than anything else, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks Christianity is often poorly represented by a lot of well-meaning Christians.
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    How it’s represented is inconsequential to me anymore. It’s the abuse of power, bigotry, and harm it has caused throughout our history that is outrageous. But the way you phrased that sure reads like recognizing the complicity I referenced.

    I would absolutely love to see an uprising within the Christian community but I just don’t see it happening. The church I described, from my lifetime of observation, is in the extreme minority.
     
    Incumbent said:
    How it’s represented is inconsequential to me anymore. It’s the abuse of power, bigotry, and harm it has caused throughout our history that is outrageous. But the way you phrased that sure reads like recognizing the complicity I referenced.

    I would absolutely love to see an uprising within the Christian community but I just don’t see it happening. The church I described, from my lifetime of observation, is in the extreme minority.
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    You do realize there is a significant portion of the Christian community who are pro-choice and support LGBQT rights? I'm a former well-traveled minister and have visited hundreds of churches throughout the country. It's not as rare as you think it is.

    The however many idiots in the Christian community don't speak for me, and neither does anyone here. I have spoken to these topics for a while now and I'm not the only one out there speaking out against injustices.

    You say you don't see Christians as a monolithic, but your words betray that. I'll acknowledge that I'm not a typical Christian, but I'm also hardly the only one, and I don't think Christians like me are in the extreme minority. I do wish there were more of them though.

    Fwiw, I accept we won't see eye to eye on this topic, so I'll move on.
     
    DaveXA said:
    You do realize there is a significant portion of the Christian community who are pro-choice and support LGBQT rights? I'm a former well-traveled minister and have visited hundreds of churches throughout the country. It's not as rare as you think it is.

    The however many idiots in the Christian community don't speak for me, and neither does anyone here. I have spoken to these topics for a while now and I'm not the only one out there speaking out against injustices.

    You say you don't see Christians as a monolithic, but your words betray that. I'll acknowledge that I'm not a typical Christian, but I'm also hardly the only one, and I don't think Christians like me are in the extreme minority. I do wish there were more of them though.

    Fwiw, I accept we won't see eye to eye on this topic, so I'll move on.
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    I don’t see Christians as a monolith and gave an accounting of a church I’ve attended in support of that. Where we disagree is to the extent the broader Christian community supports issues like women’s reproductive rights and protections for the LGBT community. I’ve highlighted a history of harm and bigotry carried out under the banner of our “Christian” nation.

    I’m not questioning your personal beliefs or character, I know you well enough and have said so, but I do think you have a romanticized view of Christianity. And in case it’s not clear, I emphatically believe that a person can’t be anti-choice but also pro liberty. Those are incompatible.
     
    Incumbent said:
    I don’t see Christians as a monolith and gave an accounting of a church I’ve attended in support of that. Where we disagree is to the extent the broader Christian community supports issues like women’s reproductive rights and protections for the LGBT community. I’ve highlighted a history of harm and bigotry carried out under the banner of our “Christian” nation.

    I’m not questioning your personal beliefs or character, I know you well enough and have said so, but I do think you have a romanticized view of Christianity. And in case it’s not clear, I emphatically believe that a person can’t be anti-choice but also pro liberty. Those are incompatible.
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    You were clear. I got that. I'll just say that my view of Christianity is that liberty is a core tenet. There are passages that speaks to that. There are also passages that speaks to Jesus not being interested in politics, not to mention passages reminding us to "render unto Ceasar..." People have confused politics and Christianity, and that I'd why we're in the mess we're in. Liberty and self-determination are cornerstone concepts of our country and many Christians have forgotten that. "Give me liberty or give me death" wasn't something someone said in passing. It was borne of desperation. Maybe this is the crossroads we need to reevaluate. I don't know if it will take, but I do hope it does.
     
    SaulGoodmanEsq said:
    A lot of people on the left aren't taking Nate Silver's comments to well, but he is 100% correct.

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    He's probably right. I do think the focus has to be '24. There can't be a shift politically until that election. I think it's too late to see some sea change in November because the candidates are already in place amd I don't think many are going to flip one way or the other just yet. The real prize politically speaking is the Presidency and more in '24.

    Also, I would not underestimate the number of conservatives out there. This site isn't really reflective of that. I think convincing people to vote differently is a tall order. It can be done though.
     
    DaveXA said:
    He's probably right. I do think the focus has to be '24. There can't be a shift politically until that election. I think it's too late to see some sea change in November because the candidates are already in place amd I don't think many are going to flip one way or the other just yet. The real prize politically speaking is the Presidency and more in '24.

    Also, I would not underestimate the number of conservatives out there. This site isn't really reflective of that. I think convincing people to vote differently is a tall order. It can be done though.
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    Oh, I was agreeing with his much longer-term projection. It's going to be a good 15-20 years before the Court has the potential for realignment.
     
    I am relieved that my sister and niece live in California...

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    CrowFlies said:
    'facts".....um, facts are today not then.
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    What?

    Jeremiah 1:5 is the basis for their anti-abortion position. That is a fact. Just like Leviticus 20:13 is their basis for their anti-LGBTQ agenda. That's where they come from, the Christian Bible. Control over women? Very much in all Abrahamic religions as well.
     
    I rarely post here. I believe a person can be pro life and pro choice. I'm one. I don't believe abortion should be used as
    a method of birth control. Oh if I get pregnant I'll just get an abortion is wrong imo.

    This is a terrible decision by SCOTUS. It leaves it up to states rights. Nothing will change in CA. Doctors in LA can now face
    prison time if they perform one. This is a cluster you know what of epic proportions. The law in LA now makes no excetions
    for rape or incest. Damn this is so so wrong.
     

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