All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (13 Viewers)

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    Maxp

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    I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?
     
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/02/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/
    And while in July 2020, blood surveillance indicated the US was only counting one infection out of every three true infections, that fell to one in two a year later.
    This was all pre-Delta, the researchers caution. Plus, they didn't measure the other part of the human response -- one involving cells known as T-cells -- and one that might induce broader immunity. But knowing who has antibodies can help inform public health efforts.
    "Several large studies have shown that among individuals who are seropositive from prior SARS-CoV-2 infection, COVID-19 incidence is reduced by 80% to 95%, similar to vaccine efficacy estimates," they noted.
    "The study will continue until at least December 2021, and results will be made available on the CDC's website," they wrote.

    (its from CNN and the CDC).
    The T-cell part is what I am interested in.
     
    T-cell immunity is real, i studied it, but that was a long time ago, lol. It’s not as fast-acting as the IgG antibodies that blood tests measure and since you didn’t show any antibodies, it was almost certainly T-cell immunity that was at work for you in the second instance.

    Immunity is a very, very complex subject. Even your doctor, unless they are an infectious disease specialist or an epidemiologist, probably doesn’t truly understand it.

    And, if it were me, I would take the vaccine. It’s very safe, it’s free, and it will give your immunity a “boost”. Almost no downside there.
     
    There's literally no science against taking the vaccine at this point unless someone has some unique medical condition. It's merely a political position for its own sake. Snowflake politics.
     
    SaulGoodmanEsq said:
    There's literally no science against taking the vaccine at this point unless someone has some unique medical condition. It's merely a political position for its own sake. Snowflake politics.
    Click to expand...

    The most amazing thing is it's killing their voters. It's true African Americans are a very hesitant group as well. Texas, and Florida both have relatively low AA populations. The vast majority of those dying are going to be conservative bodies in those states. That's how off the rails the GOP is now. They are killing themselves in states were they need every vote they can get.

    P.S. I love the juxtaposition in Texas of "I have the right to do what I want with my body." from the anti-vax crowd while they try their hardest to outlaw abortion for the poor.
     
    J-DONK said:
    The most amazing thing is it's killing their voters. It's true African Americans are a very hesitant group as well. Texas, and Florida both have relatively low AA populations. The vast majority of those dying are going to be conservative bodies in those states. That's how off the rails the GOP is now. They are killing themselves in states were they need every vote they can get.

    P.S. I love the juxtaposition in Texas of "I have the right to do what I want with my body." from the anti-vax crowd while they try their hardest to outlaw abortion for the poor.
    Click to expand...
    The hypocrisy is the point.
     
    Taurus said:
    The hypocrisy is the point.
    Click to expand...
    True, I read about this last year. For people with narcissistic disorders, cruelty and hypocrisy is used to let everyone else around them know that they themselves are important and do not have to follow the general rules of a civil society. It’s all about power and showing they have it and whichever person or group is being targeted do not. I do feel like we as a society are heading into an extremely narcissistic period. The elevation of a supreme narcissist to POTUS is just a symptom of the disfunction.
     
    J-DONK said:
    The most amazing thing is it's killing their voters. It's true African Americans are a very hesitant group as well. Texas, and Florida both have relatively low AA populations. The vast majority of those dying are going to be conservative bodies in those states. That's how off the rails the GOP is now. They are killing themselves in states were they need every vote they can get.

    P.S. I love the juxtaposition in Texas of "I have the right to do what I want with my body." from the anti-vax crowd while they try their hardest to outlaw abortion for the poor.
    Click to expand...

    Yep, not sure what their "endgame" is but it is baffling to me....
     
    J-DONK said:
    The most amazing thing is it's killing their voters. It's true African Americans are a very hesitant group as well. Texas, and Florida both have relatively low AA populations. The vast majority of those dying are going to be conservative bodies in those states. That's how off the rails the GOP is now. They are killing themselves in states were they need every vote they can get.
    Click to expand...

    about a week ago or so, the lt governor of texas was on faux news and said the spread in tx was basically because of black people
    apnews.com

    Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick's COVID claim denounced as racist

    AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Texas' lieutenant governor blamed rising hospitalization and death rates from COVID-19 on unvaccinated Black people — comments that were quickly denounced as racist.
    apnews.com apnews.com

    “The biggest group in most states are African Americans who have not been vaccinated,” Patrick said.

    Patrick did not change course Friday, saying “Democrat social media trolls” misstated facts and that he had used state data in his assertions. His office did not respond to a request for additional comments.

    But statistics from the Texas Department of State Health Services don’t back that. Black people — who make up about 12% of the more than 29 million people in Texas — accounted for about 15% of total COVID-19 cases and just more than 10% of deaths.
     
    Farb said:
    They left out a lot of the other meds he took, his decision on why he took them and also information on the drugs makes it seems that it is only for animals when infact is FDA approved for people, and RXed by doctors. Now if you are making a case against off label use of medications, then maybe you have a point.

    Seems kind of sensationalized, no? Is this a source you trust?
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    Is Joe Rogan a source you trust? Lol

     
    Even Joe Rogan tells people they shouldn't listen to him as a source for anything. Anyway, the two 'experts' Rogan previously interviewed who tout ivermectin? Bret Weinsten who is not a medical doctor (he has a PhD). Aside from being a podcaster and politico, for the bulk of his career he was a professor of biology at Evergreen State University. Pierre Kory is a medical doctor -- his MD is from St. George's University, a private university based in the West Indies.

    The world is big enough that you can eventually find some kook with a patina of legitimacy pushing theories that the majority of the scientific community does not embrace. Joe Rogan is merely a more popular and modern day Art Bell. He realizes he can get a wide audience scheduling guests that tell people what they want to hear because it fits with their political ideology regardless of the bulk of scientific evidence. It is also no surprise the same people who embrace ivermectin tend to overlap nicely with the far-right/religious fanatics -- they are used to subjugating themselves to dogma and enslaving themselves intellectually without any actual evidence or proof.

    It's another variant of outrage porn/echo chamber of reinforcing people's beliefs. It's easier to listen to and cite Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, Sean Hannity then it is to go to the source of raw scientific information that usually debunks what political pundits are spinning. Not only easier, but comforting. Just like drinking chocolate shakes 24/7 versus managing macros and working out.
     
    Last edited:
    SaulGoodmanEsq said:
    Even Joe Rogan tells people they shouldn't listen to him as a source for anything. Anyway, the two 'experts' Rogan previously interviewed who tout ivermectin? Bret Weinsten who is not a medical doctor (he has a PhD). Aside from being a podcaster and politico, for the bulk of his career he was a professor of biology at Evergreen State University. Pierre Kory is a medical doctor -- his MD is from St. George's University, a private university based in the West Indies.

    The world is big enough that you can eventually find some kook with a patina of legitimacy pushing theories that the majority of the scientific community does not embrace. Joe Rogan is merely a more popular and modern day Art Bell. He realizes he can get a wide audience scheduling guests that tell people what they want to hear because it fits with their political ideology regardless of the bulk of scientific evidence. It is also no surprise the same people who embrace ivermectin tend to overlap nicely with the far-right/religious fanatics -- they are used to subjugating themselves to dogma and enslaving themselves intellectually without any actual evidence or proof.

    It's another variant of outrage porn/echo chamber of reinforcing people's beliefs. It's easier to listen to and cite Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, Sean Hannity then it is to go to the source of raw scientific information that usually debunks what political pundits are spinning. Not only easier, but comforting. Just like drinking chocolate shakes 24/7 versus managing macros and working out.
    Click to expand...
    Its not just right-wing fanatics or religious zealots who fall into this "reinforcing echo chamber"---listening to preferred sources or experts that re-iterate our political, or religious biases. The current MAGA Trump crowd/extremist crowd is just the latest in a long and continuous line. There were the Truthers, conspiracy theorists who, not too long ago maybe 10 years ago, pre-Trump, argued that Bush administration deliberately and willfully allowed the 9/11 hijackers/terrorists to strike selected public targets in D.C. and NYC to help use as convenient outrage to sell to the American public to take care of certain anti-US enemies around the globe. It's not surprising many who believed parts or all of this conspiracy fell on the political left.

    40 years ago, there was an even more radical, conspiracy theory that stated that the US government artificially created the AIDS virus in a laboratory to target LGBT, or African-American or Latino-American communities even though some historians now believe these ridiculous, unsubstantiated conspiracy theories may have originally come from Soviet KGB spymasters who devised this nonsense to cause resentment and bitterness among minorities in the USA in early 1980's Reagan administration.
     
    Saintman2884 said:
    Its not just right-wing fanatics or religious zealots who fall into this "reinforcing echo chamber"---listening to preferred sources or experts that re-iterate our political, or religious biases. The current MAGA Trump crowd/extremist crowd is just the latest in a long and continuous line. There were the Truthers, conspiracy theorists who, not too long ago maybe 10 years ago, pre-Trump, argued that Bush administration deliberately and willfully allowed the 9/11 hijackers/terrorists to strike selected public targets in D.C. and NYC to help use as convenient outrage to sell to the American public to take care of certain anti-US enemies around the globe. It's not surprising many who believed parts or all of this conspiracy fell on the political left.

    40 years ago, there was an even more radical, conspiracy theory that stated that the US government artificially created the AIDS virus in a laboratory to target LGBT, or African-American or Latino-American communities even though some historians now believe these ridiculous, unsubstantiated conspiracy theories may have originally come from Soviet KGB spymasters who devised this nonsense to cause resentment and bitterness among minorities in the USA in early 1980's Reagan administration.
    Click to expand...

    Gotta take issue with your assertion about 911 Truthers.
    I was heavily connected to the internet at the time and that particular brand of madness was almost entirely the province of right wing nutjobs and "gubment is evil" loons.
     
    This is disturbing. At least the pastor‘s wife is calling these fake “christians” out.

    74833A99-2DD0-4B44-827C-053A053D873A.jpeg

    DAE103CE-554E-44F7-990A-A8E198474B20.jpeg
     
    Mandates are a lost cause. At this point the necessary counterweight to idiocy should be allowing the families of those who died to initiate civil suits against those who could have potentially given them COVID and/or the institutions that do not have a mask/vaccine policy.
     
    Tells you all you need to know about the current state of politics in America compared to the rest of the world's notable (and more rational) democracies:


     

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