The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (9 Viewers)

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    Lapaz

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    There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.

    www.politico.com

    Stanford study: Mail voting doesn't benefit one party over another

    Coronavirus-spurred limits have intensified a push to allow more mail balloting in November.
    www.politico.com www.politico.com

    Voting Outside the Polling Place: Absentee, All-Mail and other Voting at Home Options

    Most states offer at least one method for any eligible voter to cast a ballot before Election Day. While some states provide early in-person voting, this webpage addresses absentee voting and all-mail voting.
    www.ncsl.org

    Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

    Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.
     
    Goatman saint said:
    Man they just can’t decide can they. Police are good guys, now the pigs are the enemy.

    I’m curious to see once Trump is out if he continues this, and if he does how long he’s able to get away with inciting riots essentially
    Click to expand...
    There was apparently an argument between to protesters over whether or not the back the blue. "We still back the blue though!" one screamed. The other was all, "No we don't!" I'm surprised they didn't start fighting each other.
     
    On a positive note, the GOP continues to get absolutely pummeled in court. Here, an Arizona court finds that the AZ GOP's case demanding a redo of its hand count audit was "meritless."

    1608655290898.png


    The court snuffed out the meritless lawsuit, but will decide at a later time -- when considering the AZ Sec of State's application for attorneys' fees -- whether the case was brought in bad faith (spoiler: it was).
     
    TaylorB said:
    On a positive note, the GOP continues to get absolutely pummeled in court. Here, an Arizona court finds that the AZ GOP's case demanding a redo of its hand count audit was "meritless."

    1608655290898.png


    The court snuffed out the meritless lawsuit, but will decide at a later time -- when considering the AZ Sec of State's application for attorneys' fees -- whether the case was brought in bad faith (spoiler: it was).
    Click to expand...
    You seent this part? Looks like they're going to make the plaintiffs pay the attorney fees for the defense.

     
    insidejob said:
    You seent this part? Looks like they're going to make the plaintiffs pay the attorney fees for the defense.

    Click to expand...

    Yep, saw that part. The AZ Sec of State who intervened in the suit has a pending application for attorneys' fees, but it looks like they can only recover if they prove that the GOP's case was brought "without substantial justification" or "solely or primarily for delay" -- my post referred to this broadly as "bad faith."

    I'd probably work for free to help unwind the bad faith claims against the AZ GOP, if there's any discovery involved. Even some of the sophisticated insurance companies I encounter in my practice can be really, really bad at covering their tracks when they act in bad faith. Once you find a loose thread, you just pull until the whole thing unravels.

    By all measures, the AZ GOP seems to lack any semblance of competence, so it's hard to imagine they'd have mounted a competent cover-up as to the purpose of the lawsuit, what they knew and when, etc. I hope their lawyers are implicated too. They're a stain on the profession and dangerous to democracy and the rule of law. I will keep an eye on this, but my money is on the court finding the GOP in bad faith and awarding fees, which is a pretty big deal.
     
    TaylorB said:
    Yep, saw that part. The AZ Sec of State who intervened in the suit has a pending application for attorneys' fees, but it looks like they can only recover if they prove that the GOP's case was brought "without substantial justification" or "solely or primarily for delay" -- my post referred to this broadly as "bad faith."

    I'd probably work for free to help unwind the bad faith claims against the AZ GOP, if there's any discovery involved. Even some of the sophisticated insurance companies I encounter in my practice can be really, really bad at covering their tracks when they act in bad faith. Once you find a loose thread, you just pull until the whole thing unravels.

    By all measures, the AZ GOP seems to lack any semblance of competence, so it's hard to imagine they'd have mounted a competent cover-up as to the purpose of the lawsuit, what they knew and when, etc. I hope their lawyers are implicated too. They're a stain on the profession and dangerous to democracy and the rule of law. I will keep an eye on this, but my money is on the court finding the GOP in bad faith and awarding fees, which is a pretty big deal.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, it sounds like they had to know the status of the hand count audit which would make them responsible for the attorneys fees, if I'm reading that correctly. I just want to see someone, anyone, held responsible for all of these frivolous law suits. I really hope that the SDNY is successful in busting Giuliani for whatever it is they're asking him to turn over all of his electronic devices for. I'm not sure why they didn't just get a warrant for them though. Maybe they don't have probable cause for one? Anyway, even though Rudy had the title of head of cybersecurity or whatever it was, it's pretty clear that he's an idiot when it comes to technology. He doesn't even really know how to work his own twitter account.

    My uncle was a partner at Adams & Reese and spent the majority of his career doing appeals work for insurance companies. And he was always busy so you must be right in saying that insurance companies aren't good at covering their tracks.
     
    insidejob said:
    I'm not sure why they didn't just get a warrant for them though. Maybe they don't have probable cause for one? Anyway, even though Rudy had the title of head of cybersecurity or whatever it was, it's pretty clear that he's an idiot when it comes to technology. He doesn't even really know how to work his own twitter account.
    Click to expand...

    I think they have to get permission from federal prosecutors to subpoena his electronic communications....perhaps because of his work for the president?
     
    insidejob said:
    My uncle was a partner at Adams & Reese and spent the majority of his career doing appeals work for insurance companies. And he was always busy so you must be right in saying that insurance companies aren't good at covering their tracks.
    Click to expand...

    No doubt -- and most times, by the time the case is in the hands of highly capable and smart defense lawyers like those in your uncle's firm, there's only so much clean-up that can be done.

    insidejob said:
    Yeah, it sounds like they had to know the status of the hand count audit which would make them responsible for the attorneys fees, if I'm reading that correctly.
    Click to expand...

    Seems like it. Not only was the result of the audit posted on the AZ SoS website the day prior to the AZ GOP suit being filed; there were R representatives actively participating in the audit.

    Think about it this way -- if the hand count audit *had* revealed discrepancies, do we really think the AZ GOP would have omitted that in the lawsuit and claimed not to have known the audit had been completed? More likely, given the fact that the suit was filed the day after the audit, is that their "plan B" lawsuit was just to ignore the audit if it came back clean and pretend like it never happened while requesting a new audit on some other basis. But to think they simply didn't know the outcome of the audit as they were filing a suit requesting a new one? Nah. That reeks of bad faith.

    insidejob said:
    I just want to see someone, anyone, held responsible for all of these frivolous law suits. I really hope that the SDNY is successful in busting Giuliani for whatever it is they're asking him to turn over all of his electronic devices for. I'm not sure why they didn't just get a warrant for them though. Maybe they don't have probable cause for one? Anyway, even though Rudy had the title of head of cybersecurity or whatever it was, it's pretty clear that he's an idiot when it comes to technology. He doesn't even really know how to work his own twitter account.
    Click to expand...

    I think the Giuliani electronics request stems from a completely separate deal - the SDNY criminal investigation into his criming in Ukraine with Lev, Igor, DiGenova, etc. trying to solicit bribes from Ukraine in the form of election interference on Trump's behalf. And I think the most likely obstacle there is waiting on Bill Barr's office to sign off on seeking a warrant. It wouldn't surprise me if Rudy G had information that would support bad faith allegations in some of these election cases, but he's not as likely to be the key to bad faith in most of these election cases as they'll likely be pretty fact specific and narrowly involve each individual case vs. the plot as a whole.

    To your point -- similarly to the AZ GOP, Rudy G doesn't seem capable of covering his tracks, whether in the criminal or civil context. I could see him getting indicted at some point in 2021 whether they get a warrant or not, but if they get one, he's probably in a bind. If he got wrapped up as a bad faith witness in some of these crappy election fraud cases he participated in, that's just lagniappe for me.

    EDIT: I should’ve noted that Rudy probably will be pardoned for the matters the SDNY is investigating. That’s a better bet than an indictment at this point.
     
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