The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (12 Viewers)

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    Lapaz

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    There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.



    Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

    Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.
     
    I posted a twitter thread earlier in this thread about how impossible that scenario really is. It acknowledged that there is a very, very slim possibility of what the article you linked is suggesting but basically posited that the farthest things will go in the House and Senate (if there are objections at all in both) is the two hours of debate each has to have before voting for president and vice president and ultimately installing Biden and Harris. I'll scroll back a few pages to see if I can find it.

    I'll sum up the process for you. Here's what has to happen to discard a single state's Electoral votes:

    1) A member of Congress must object to that state's Electoral Votes (of note: Congress is certifying that the votes are correct in form and appear to be authentic. They are basically certifying that the paper they have is the one the state actually submitted)
    2) A member of the other house of Congress must co-sign the objection.
    3) The houses of congress return to their chambers and debate the issue for no more than two hours, and then vote.
    4) By a simple majority, both houses must vote to reject that state's electoral votes.

    So, the two questions for the Hail Mary are:

    1) What are the odds that every single Republican in the Senate will vote to discard the votes of three (at least) individual states where Biden won?
    2) What are the odds that at least 20 democrats in the House will vote to discard the votes of three (at least) individual states where Biden won?
     
    This article appears to be what some lawyers are calling “fear porn”.

    McConnell has told the Senate R caucus not to join with the House Rs. Even if a Senator goes rogue, and defies Mitch, it would be defeated. More and more R senators have recognized the result of the election, including my deep red state’s two senators. So, this is just a bit over the top, imo.

    I think you're right

    the only thing giving me any pause at all is the things we've seen post election (charges of fraud, rigging, lawsuits, death threats. 70%+ of the losing side voters thinking it was stolen) would have been called "Fear Porn" pre election, and would have been considered tin foil hat crazy just a few years ago
     
    1) What are the odds that every single Republican in the Senate will vote to discard the votes of three (at least) individual states where Biden won?
    2) What are the odds that at least 20 democrats in the House will vote to discard the votes of three (at least) individual states where Biden won?

    1) 0%
    2) 0%

    I'd give the first any chance at all if the second had any chance at all.

    Don't get me wrong, there will be nutjobs like Cruz, Cotton, Kennedy, etc. who will definitely vote to discard some other state's votes, but the chances of getting every single GOP Senator to vote on the record against free and democratic elections is nil.
     

    So much for Trump conceding.
    He is never going to concede. It would be nice if he did, but it is not necessary. We need to recognize that he is going to be the worst at whatever. Don't expect him to do what is right. Acknowledge that he won't because he is terrible and move on. In short, stop pretending his opinion matters in the election. It does not.
     
    He is never going to concede. It would be nice if he did, but it is not necessary. We need to recognize that he is going to be the worst at whatever. Don't expect him to do what is right. Acknowledge that he won't because he is terrible and move on. In short, stop pretending his opinion matters in the election. It does not.
    Yesterday it was reported that he's telling people to say that he "didn't win" and not "he lost" because he doesn't want people calling him a loser when he loses.
     
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    Yesterday it was reported that he's telling people to say that he "didn't win" and not "he lost" because he doesn't want people calling him a loser when he loses.
    MAGA's like "we shouldn't give kids participation trophies; they have to learn to win *and* lose. However, please be careful around our 74-year-old president with residual daddy issues not to say he 'lost' the election; we're trying to come up with more positive phrasing, like 'Mr. Trump was a mere 7 million votes away from being victorious...'"
     
    Yesterday it was reported that he's telling people to say that he "didn't win" and not "he lost" because he doesn't want people calling him a loser when he loses.
    Which is exactly why I'm trying to remember to put "loser" in front of Trump every time I say that loser's name.

    I'm pretty sure it affects him in a voodoo sort of way so I'm rolling with it.
     
    (I await someone to chime in with a "both sides" remark)


    A former Houston police captain has been arrested after running a man off the road and holding him at gunpoint in an attempt to prove his 2020 election conspiracy theories.

    The incident occurred in Harris County, Texas on Tuesday when Mark Anthony Aguirre, 63, ran his SUV into the back of a truck he suspected of hiding hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots. When the technician pulled off the road and left his truck, Mr Aguirre allegedly pointed a handgun at the man, forced him to the ground, and put a knee on his back.

    Another suspect who police have not identified took the truck to a nearby parking lot. Police arrived at the scene and arrested Mr Aguirre. The truck was filled with air conditioning parts, as the driver was a repairman.


    Mr Aguirre told police he carried out the action on behalf of a group of private citizens called "Liberty Centre."
     
    Yesterday it was reported that he's telling people to say that he "didn't win" and not "he lost" because he doesn't want people calling him a loser when he loses.

    MatureWigglyGlassfrog-max-1mb.gif
     
    Mr Aguirre told police he carried out the action on behalf of a group of private citizens called "Liberty Centre."

    lawyers care to chime in?

    If he proclaims to be acting on behalf of them, could they be facing litigation?

     
    (I await someone to chime in with a "both sides" remark)


    A former Houston police captain has been arrested after running a man off the road and holding him at gunpoint in an attempt to prove his 2020 election conspiracy theories.

    The incident occurred in Harris County, Texas on Tuesday when Mark Anthony Aguirre, 63, ran his SUV into the back of a truck he suspected of hiding hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots. When the technician pulled off the road and left his truck, Mr Aguirre allegedly pointed a handgun at the man, forced him to the ground, and put a knee on his back.

    Another suspect who police have not identified took the truck to a nearby parking lot. Police arrived at the scene and arrested Mr Aguirre. The truck was filled with air conditioning parts, as the driver was a repairman.


    Mr Aguirre told police he carried out the action on behalf of a group of private citizens called "Liberty Centre."
    This is a bit off-topic, but I googled this Aguirre guy and was not disappointed. Apparently he was fired from the Houston PD in 2002 for conducting a raid targeting drag racing -- hilariously entitled "operation ERACER" -- which ultimately uncovered no evidence of drag racing, but which resulted in the unlawful arrests of hundreds of people. You have to read the "background" section of this civil lawsuit to believe it:


    1608145789577.png


    There was no evidence of drag racing, so the cops put up "no trespassing" signs and arrested everyone at gunpoint. Sounds like Aguirre was the perfect person to try to help prove massive voter fraud on Trump's behalf.
     
    lawyers care to chime in?

    If he proclaims to be acting on behalf of them, could they be facing litigation?

    Sure. Particularly if there's a money trail + evidence he did this at the behest of the organization. I can't say for sure the victim would win, particularly in anti-lawsuit Texas, but if he brings a civil lawsuit he'll certainly bring in the political entity as a defendant, as Aguirre doesn't strike me as someone who's got a ton of cash laying around to pay off a civil judgment on his own.
     
    I read something in passing that the ex-cop received a payment from a right wing group trying to gin up conspiracy theories about election fraud. Wonder if that group is the one? It was a decent figure, over $100,000. I would say to the innocent driver, go get that cash! 😁
     
    I read something in passing that the ex-cop received a payment from a right wing group trying to gin up conspiracy theories about election fraud. Wonder if that group is the one? It was a decent figure, over $100,000. I would say to the innocent driver, go get that cash! 😁
    He apparently received $266,400 from the Liberty Center for God and Country. I'd sue 'em all, as quickly as possible, before whatever is left of that cash disappears.

    Also, Aguirre held himself out as a private investigator. Why'd they pay him like he was a friggin hit man?
     

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