Pelosi Will Possibly Use 25th Amendment to Remove Trump (1 Viewer)

efil4 said:

By "two people" i meant POTUS and STRATCOMM Commander.


it would have to "travel" down the chain of command. Furthermore, it would have to be vetted by members of his cabinet ( incl SoD and VP ) and then agreed upon and verified. Its not an "instantaneous" act. It would take time to execute, and in that time, you best believe Capitol Hill would be in overdrive.

The one thing the POTUS CANNOT do is issue an unlawful order.

An order to launch a nuclear strike, with no provocation whatsoever, is an unlawful order. Protection granted to those that refuse to follow those orders by Uniform Code of Military Justice.

What to Know About Obeying an Unlawful Military Order

Military discipline and effectiveness are built on obedience to orders. Here is what you need to know about obeying an unlawful command.

www.thebalancecareers.com

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I’m afraid we are arguing semantics.


You guys (inc Davexa) are acting like we are in normal times, with a POTUS who adheres to norms.. Do you even want a guy like Trump there who could easily give the order while on a roid rage bender, then HOPE that his military guys push back, or that someone raises alarm bells?? So far, that hoping and wishing strategy has backfired BIGLY in the Trump administration , no one has pushed back on hardly anything.. So i sincerely hope that you guys are right, and that I’m wrong.


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DaveXA said:

Well said. The whole nuclear codes thing is a scare tactic. The President can't just arbitrarily launch nukes on his own. And even if it was legal to do so, there's still a process. Too many movies make it look like all you need is to steal the football to launch them, which isn't close to how it actually works.

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Tell that to little Marco Rubio who just tweeted that out there as a scare tactic

efil4 said:

Once he is out on Nov 3rd, they will drop him like a bad habit.

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Everyone needs to accept and get others to accept that we will not know the actual election results until Nov 7th at the earliest.

Mr. Blue Sky said:

Dude.. i love ya and all, but what exactly more would you like to see from Trump? How about if he Tweets a picture of himself with the ’nuclear football’, with a sheet full of codes in front of him and a packet of steroids next to him, while he looks at a map of N Korea? Or Australia, or France?? Nah, it’s just ‘Trump being Trump.’



The 25th amendment exists for a reason.. If ’now isnt the time’, then, ****, lets just get rid of it.. Seriously.

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1. Think about what “incapacitated” really means.

2. Do you think Pence and the cabinet agree with you?

wardorican said:

Tell that to little Marco Rubio who just tweeted that out there as a scare tactic

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What did he tweet? No idea what you're referring to.

DaveXA said:

Well said. The whole nuclear codes thing is a scare tactic. The President can't just arbitrarily launch nukes on his own. And even if it was legal to do so, there's still a process. Too many movies make it look like all you need is to steal the football to launch them, which isn't close to how it actually works.

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The process moves fast or it would be a useless process. If any of the nuclear powers launched one at us we would only have a half hour to get any in the air in retaliation. Though there are a few chains in the process and some vetting, it's not some exhaustive deliberation process. It all happens quickly.

As to the idea that the military won't follow an illegal order, I don't count on that. They already followed an illegal order to assault people who were legally and peacefully protesting in DC. We keep saying "the good people in government and military won't let him do it," but here we are. Who has stopped Trump from doing anything besides the courts and Congress? Neither of those groups are involved in the process of Trump ordering military actions.

MT15 said:

Oh and he said he’s not contagious, and that Covid is no big deal. These are the drugs talking, IMO. That steroid is not like a run of the mill prednisone. It’s mental effects can be severe.

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You know they give dexamethasone to babies for croup right? Not surprisingly the media and Democrats have severely exaggerated the side effects of the steroid. Do you know how crazy this sounds?

LA - L.A. said:

Everyone needs to accept and get others to accept that we will not know the actual election results until Nov 7th at the earliest.

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If it's a landslide, we most likely will know on the 3rd, or morning of the 4th. If it's close, 7th or later if it's contested.

superchuck500 said:

1. Think about what “incapacitated” really means.

2. Do you think Pence and the cabinet agree with you?

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1). I believe it means mentally, as well as physically (in a coma or something)


2) No, and again i think we’re discussing two different things.. I’m not for one second delusional enough to think that Pence and the Cab would agree with me.. but i thought we were debating whether or not Pelosi’s actions in at least *discussing* the 25th (and invoking it to whatever degree her position allows) Is appropriate at this time, and i believe that it is....... but hey, you’re a professional attorney, and I’m just some guy on the interwebs.

LA - L.A. said:

As to the idea that the military won't follow an illegal order, I don't count on that.

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Finally someone who gets it.

LA - L.A. said:

Everyone needs to accept and get others to accept that we will not know the actual election results until Nov 7th at the earliest.

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Of what year?

SaintForLife said:

You know they give dexamethasone to babies for croup right? Not surprisingly the media and Democrats have severely exaggerated the side effects of the steroid. Do you know how crazy this sounds?

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Hey, look at me agreeing with SFL.

Dexamethasone isn’t tiny-testicles/roid rage anabolic steroids. Mostly. It’s a pretty common medicine and people take it all the time with no issues.

Yes, SOMETIMES it can have those types of side effects but it’s rare for someone taking it for a short amount of time.

LA - L.A. said:

The process moves fast or it would be a useless process. If any of the nuclear powers launched one at us we would only have a half hour to get any in the air in retaliation. Though there are a few chains in the process and some vetting, it's not some exhaustive deliberation process. It all happens quickly.

As to the idea that the military won't follow an illegal order, I don't count on that. They already followed an illegal order to assault people who were legally and peacefully protesting in DC. We keep saying "the good people in government and military won't let him do it," but here we are. Who has stopped Trump from doing anything besides the courts and Congress? Neither of those groups are involved in the process of Trump ordering military actions.

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They're not, and while it is fast, it's still not arbitrary or without safeguards. That, and the military is governed by the UCMJ. Not to mention that Congress does have some levers of their own when it comes to the military. Military funding and budgets are approved by Congress through the President's budget submissions.

As for the DC thing, which bothered the hell out of me, iirc, that wasn't a military action. I believe the DOJ was involved in that.

I get the concern, but I don't think it's warranted as it relates to the military and nuclear codes.

superchuck500 said:

1. Think about what “incapacitated” really means.

2. Do you think Pence and the cabinet agree with you?

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There's no mention of incapacitation anywhere in the 25th amendment that I've seen. It reads "the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office." Unable to discharge powers is completely open for interpretation and I think ruling out mentally unable to discharge their duties would be insane.

Trump could have a complete psychotic break from reality and Pence and the cabinet would say everything is okay. I don't the question is a matter of what they will do, but what would be the appropriate response to Trump being mentally unable to discharge his powers and duties.

I would say that at the bare minimum we use the same standards that we use to declare someone mentally unable to make decisions or care for themselves. Those standards probably vary from state to state. Do you know what the average or general criteria are for being able to declare someone mentally unable to make decisions or care for themselves?

SaintForLife said:

You know they give dexamethasone to babies for croup right? Not surprisingly the media and Democrats have severely exaggerated the side effects of the steroid. Do you know how crazy this sounds?

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This is decidedly not crazy, but thanks for going personal.

Dosage matters, and he would presumably be on a pretty high dose, going by what is published as the recommended dosage for Covid.


There are well known mood and judgment side effects from this drug. Trump does seem to be exhibiting some of the euphoria, at the very least.

From the article, but there’s a lot more in the article than this.

DaveXA said:

If it's a landslide, we most likely will know on the 3rd, or morning of the 4th. If it's close, 7th or later if it's contested.

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A lot of state's with a large chunk of the electoral votes are telling us they will need at least a week. I optimistically shortened it to four days.

Expecting to know the outcome of the election within a day or two is ignores the reality of the logistics of this election. Expecting to know the outcome of the election in a day or two is setting oneself up for disappointment and the country for unnecessary election anxiety.

She is just prepping to have him removed if he loses the election.

Lane duck Trump will be full blown Kanye.

MT15 said:

This is decidedly not crazy, but thanks for going personal.

Dosage matters, and he would presumably be on a pretty high dose, going by what is published as the recommended dosage for Covid.

Dexamethasone: Here Are The Side Effects Of The Covid-19 Coronavirus Treatment That Trump Received

In addition to physical side effects, corticosteroids can affect your mood, thinking, and behavior.

www.forbes.com

There are well known mood and judgment side effects from this drug. Trump does seem to be exhibiting some of the euphoria, at the very least.

From the article, but there’s a lot more in the article than this.

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Nothing personal unless you started the rumor in the media that dexamethasone can make someone crazy.

I deal with the Covid patients at work and I've never seen those kind of extreme side effects in one single patient.