Republicans moving ahead with Trump’s ‘big’ bill of tax breaks (3 Viewers)

[zztop]

Republicans moving ahead with Trump's 'big' bill of tax breaks and spending cuts amid tariff uproar

After a long wait, the Senate is launching action on President Donald Trump’s ”“big, beautiful bill” of tax breaks and spending cuts.

apnews.com

More than a month after House Republicans surprised Washington by advancing their framework for Trump’s $4.5 trillion in tax breaks and $2 trillion in spending cuts, Senate Republicans voted Thursday to start working on their version. The largely party-line vote, 52-48, sets the stage for a potential Senate all-nighter Friday spilling into the weekend.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Where is your proof that the tech bros organized January 6th?

Just responding to this again. As I previously said, I pointed out that the tech bros want to end our democracy and are actively working toward it. I never said they organized the attacks on the Capitol that took place on January 6th, 2021.

For further proof about how much of a threat they are I'll quote OptimusPrime from another thread, I did the bolding for emphasis:

"From Robert Reich​

==============​

Draw a circle around all the assets in the US now devoted to artificial intelligence.​

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Draw a second circle around all the assets devoted to the US military.​

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A third around all assets being devoted to helping the Trump regime collect and compile personal information on millions of Americans.​

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And a fourth circle around the parts of Silicon Valley dedicated to turning the US away from a democracy into a dictatorship led by tech bros.​

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Where do the four circles intersect?​

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At a corporation called Palantir Technologies and a man named Peter Thiel.​

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In JRR Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings, a “palantír” is a seeing stone that can be used to distort truth and present selective visions of reality. During the War of the Ring, a palantír falls under the control of Sauron, who uses it to manipulate and deceive.​

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Palantir Technologies bears a striking similarity. It sells an AI-based platform that allows its users – among them, military and law enforcement agencies – to analyze personal data, including social media profiles, personal information and physical characteristics. These are used to identify and surveil individuals.​

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In March, Trump signed an executive order requiring all agencies and departments of the federal government to share data on Americans. To get the job done, Trump chose Palantir Technologies.​

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Palantir is now poised to combine data gleaned from the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Social Security Administration and the Internal Revenue Service.​

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Meanwhile, the administration wants access to citizens’ and others’ bank account numbers and medical claims.​

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Will the Trump regime use an emerging super-database to advance Trump’s political agenda, find and detain immigrants, and punish critics?​

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Will it make it easier for Trump to spy on and target his ever-growing list of enemies and other Americans? We’ll soon find out.​

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Thirteen former Palantir employees signed a letter this month urging the corporation to stop its work with Trump.​

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Linda Xia, who was a Palantir engineer until last year, said the problem was not with the company’s technology but with how the Trump administration intended to use it.​

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“Combining all that data, even with the noblest of intentions, significantly increases the risk of misuse,” she told the New York Times.​

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Even some Republicans are concerned. Representative Warren Davidson, a Republican of Ohio, told Semafor such work could be “dangerous”: “When you start combining all those data points on an individual into one database, it really essentially creates a digital ID. And it’s a power that history says will eventually be abused.”……….​

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The CEO of Palantir is Alex Karp, who said on an earnings call earlier this year that the company wants “to disrupt and make the institutions we partner with the very best in the world and, when it’s necessary, to scare enemies and on occasion kill them”.​

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Palantir recently disclosed that Karp received $6.8bn in “compensation actually paid” in 2024 (you read that right) – making him the highest-paid chief executive of a publicly traded company in the United States.​

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A former generation of wealthy US conservatives backed candidates like Barry Goldwater because they wanted to conserve American institutions.​

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But this group – Thiel, Musk, Sacks, Karp and Vance, among others – doesn’t seem to want to conserve much of anything, at least not anything that occurred after the 1920s, including social security, civil rights and even women’s right to vote.​

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As Thiel has written:​

The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women – two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians – have rendered the notion of ‘capitalist democracy’ into an oxymoron.​

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Hello?​

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If “capitalist democracy” is becoming an oxymoron, it’s not because of public assistance or because women got the right to vote. It’s because billionaire capitalists like Musk and Thiel are intent on killing democracy.…………​

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Peter Thiel’s Palantir poses a grave threat to Americans | Robert Reich

Working with the Trump administration, the data company could be used to target the president’s opponents

www.theguardian.com

"​

Right wing nuts thread

Wasn't sure where to put this, but we need a thread for the wing nuts. Lauren Boebert.

madaboutpolitics.com

 

[Lapaz]

The tech bros are a very serious threat as is China. China needs us at least as much as the tech bros.

I don’t think China wants to convert the US government into a theocratic oligarchy. All they want is to sell us stuff and have us be less strong on the world stage - that seems to be what Trump wants as well.

The tech bros want to end the US as a representative democracy.

 

[Lapaz]

There is a lot of discussion in this thread that groups the tech bros as a monolithic group. I think Musk deserves that criticism, but they have diverse opinions.

China needs us today, but they are slowly expanding their markets and improving their capabilities such that they won’t need us. It is beneficial to us to maintain our entanglement with China as a major market for them, but I think they want to make us irrelevant to their future.

 

[Lapaz]

All of this talk about getting people that don’t deserve Medicaid off would be moral if all savings were used to increase benefits for those that do deserve it, and expand coverage.

 

[SamAndreas]

All of this talk about getting people that don’t deserve Medicaid off would be moral if all savings were used to increase benefits for those that do deserve it, and expand coverage.

That's fine Lapaz, I think everyone deserves Medicaid, so I have no problem with you talking about throwing everyone in an empty set off of Medicaid.

There's one element which belongs in every set, and that is Zero.
There's even a Zero in all empty sets.
A Zero doesn't fill a set up so that's OK, because it's a Zero.

Exactly Zero people don't deserve Medicaid.

 

[Bolo]

I assume what is going to happen is the "concerned cabal" of Republicans who've acted super concerned over SNAP and medicaid cuts will fall in line and vote yes around 2-4am when people are asleep because they have no spine.

 

[MT15]

There is a lot of discussion in this thread that groups the tech bros as a monolithic group. I think Musk deserves that criticism, but they have diverse opinions.

China needs us today, but they are slowly expanding their markets and improving their capabilities such that they won’t need us. It is beneficial to us to maintain our entanglement with China as a major market for them, but I think they want to make us irrelevant to their future.

Nobody said everyone who is a tech bro thinks the same, but you are ignoring the proof that has been shown about Thiel. He is demonstrably horrible. He has influenced many others, Musk among them. Thiel in turn was influenced by Curtis Yarvin.

So no, there is a definite group of billionaires who all have very similar world views and they are anti-democracy. They don’t think you or I should be able to vote.

You really shouldn’t ignore the threat that they pose to the US. It’s very real.

 

[MT15]

Take a look at this. The smugness while voting for taking away healthcare from the poor and middle class while preserving tax cuts for the uber wealthy is infuriating.

 

[SamAndreas]

I just checked C-span live coverage. The Senate is stalled, the C-Span coverage is airing previous debate speeches in the bottom box, but in the top box which is the live coverage they have a notice posted that they are waiting for a Senator to speak.

I checked the live video run time and it is 26 hours, 43 minutes. They're stalled no Senator is speaking, about a quarter of the Senators are seated in their chairs, most look like they are sleeping. Only staffers appear to be up and walking around.

I've never seen the Senate floor look like this, before this when I was watching, there was always a bunch of Senators moving around talking to others, and few of the seats would be filled.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Senate GOP passes Trump’s ‘big, beautiful bill’ after eleventh-hour scramble, setting up high-stakes fight in the House | CNN Politics

Senate Republicans narrowly approved President Donald Trump’s giant tax and spending cuts package Tuesday after a days-long grind to secure the support of key holdouts, leaving one major step to send it to his desk.

www.cnn.com

 

[SamAndreas]

Senate GOP passes Trump’s ‘big, beautiful bill’ after eleventh-hour scramble, setting up high-stakes fight in the House | CNN Politics

Senate Republicans narrowly approved President Donald Trump’s giant tax and spending cuts package Tuesday after a days-long grind to secure the support of key holdouts, leaving one major step to send it to his desk.

www.cnn.com

That has got to be one of the worst newscasters leads I've ever read in terms of it being confusing. It left me with the initial impression that the Horrible Ugly Bill had passed.

It hasn't passed, not yet.

 

[coldseat]

Senate GOP passes Trump’s ‘big, beautiful bill’ after eleventh-hour scramble, setting up high-stakes fight in the House | CNN Politics

Senate Republicans narrowly approved President Donald Trump’s giant tax and spending cuts package Tuesday after a days-long grind to secure the support of key holdouts, leaving one major step to send it to his desk.

www.cnn.com

The House Republicans will fall in line. They're more sycophantic than the Republican Senators. We're getting this disgusting, unhinged bill and nothing will save us from it. Republicans are running full speed ahead with destroying this country and turning it into a nightmare.

77 million people were either so stupid or so vile that they voted for this lunacy. We can't survive as a country with this many damaged people and the evil they have elected.

 

[Bolo]

Quantifiably evil to vote to kick a bunch of people off medicaid then hold a prayer service after the session comes to a close.

 

[Optimus Prime]

The House Republicans will fall in line. They're more sycophantic than the Republican Senators. We're getting this disgusting, unhinged bill and nothing will save us from it. Republicans are running full speed ahead with destroying this country and turning it into a nightmare.

77 million people were either so stupid or so vile that they voted for this lunacy. We can't survive as a country with this many damaged people and the evil they have elected.

The house version only passed by one vote so we’ll see

But yes never let the people who voted for this forget they voted for this

Don’t the the the GOP reps and senators who voted for this bill forget it either

When the consequences start hitting don’t let them blame democrats or Biden or Obama

Don’t let them plead ignorance either

“Oh, I didn’t know this would happen!”

 

[SamAndreas]

The House Republicans will fall in line. They're more sycophantic than the Republican Senators. We're getting this disgusting, unhinged bill and nothing will save us from it. Republicans are running full speed ahead with destroying this country and turning it into a nightmare.

77 million people were either so stupid or so vile that they voted for this lunacy. We can't survive as a country with this many damaged people and the evil they have elected.

Probably.

Musk might buy a few of them critters off, if so then maybe not. If not then maybe Musk will buy Trump and he'll veto it.

That much money has never been this rolingly upset before now, I expect that to make history in some fashion or another.

For perspective remember the time they tried to get rid of Obamacare, and John McCain voted with the Democrats to save it? That time was a very similar to the run up to this.

 

[zztop]

the party of fiscal responsibility

The CBO estimates the latest version of the bill would add $3.3 trillion to the $36.2 trillion debt pile. That increased debt effectively serves as a wealth transfer from younger to older Americans, nonpartisan analysts say, as it will slow economic growth, raise borrowing costs and crowd out other government spending in the decades to come.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Nobody said everyone who is a tech bro thinks the same, but you are ignoring the proof that has been shown about Thiel. He is demonstrably horrible. He has influenced many others, Musk among them. Thiel in turn was influenced by Curtis Yarvin.

So no, there is a definite group of billionaires who all have very similar world views and they are anti-democracy. They don’t think you or I should be able to vote.

You really shouldn’t ignore the threat that they pose to the US. It’s very real.

Good old Curtis Yarvin. Him and his Dark Enlightenment brethren want so badly to be the real life Sith of Star Wars fiction and he wants to be Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious. These are physical adults suffering from severe arrested emotional development.

 

[SamAndreas]

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Grok is Twiters (X's) AI, In bold with large fonts is my question to Grok. All links and icon images have been removed because the board's software thought they were files, too many files. The person profiled in the question is somewhat similar to myself, but not exactly my financial profile. I will be able to look at the report, make some adjustment, and calculate from it what the bill will do to me, without exposing my own finances to everyone in the world.

Grok I've got a special request, I need to see an outline as to how the big bill will affect a retired person 66 years old who has savings and a fully paid for home. Has a disabled child and very elderly mother who needs assistance living in the home in California. Has medicare and medical assistance. Has asset savings and assets amounting to say 400.000. For the analysis of how that bill will affect such a person could you please read the bill itself, and only use that bill and previous budget bills, expert economists, the tax code, and tax experts, and the obama care code, and expert medical sources. Expert retirement services persons, no news reports, nor news opinion persons views. I am hoping for a projection which is not affected by news reports or partisan politics. I would think this would require a deep search.


Outline of the Impact of the One Big Beautiful Bill Act on a 66-Year-Old Retiree in California Profile: A 66-year-old retiree in California with a fully paid home, $400,000 in assets (e.g., retirement accounts, investments), a disabled child, and an elderly mother requiring in-home assistance. The household has Medicare and Medi-Cal coverage.1. Tax Implications

• Increased Standard Deduction for Seniors
  • The bill offers a temporary bonus standard deduction for those 65+ ($4,000 House version, $6,000 Senate version, 2025–2028) for single filers with modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) up to $75,000 (or $150,000 joint), phasing out above these thresholds.
  • Impact: If the retiree’s income (e.g., Social Security, withdrawals) is below $75,000 (single), they could save $880–$1,320/year in taxes (22% bracket). Higher incomes reduce or eliminate this benefit (e.g., phase-out above $85,000 House or $81,000 Senate).
  • Expert Insight: The deduction aids middle-income seniors but is temporary, limiting long-term planning.
• Social Security Taxation
  • Current tax code taxes up to 50% of Social Security benefits for provisional income ($25,000–$34,000 single) and 85% above $34,000. The bill does not change this due to budget rules.
  • Impact: With $30,000 Social Security and $20,000 other income, up to $25,500 of benefits could be taxable, adding ~$5,610 in taxes (22% bracket). The bonus deduction may partially offset this.
• Child and Dependent Care Credit
  • The Senate version increases the credit to 50% of qualifying expenses (from 35%) for care of a disabled child or elderly mother, capped at $3,000–$6,000.
  • Impact: Eligible expenses (e.g., in-home aides) could yield $500–$1,000/year in savings, but only if income is below $200,000 (single) or $400,000 (joint).

2. Medicare and Medi-Cal Impacts

• Medicare Eligibility Restrictions
  • The bill terminates Medicare for some legally present immigrants with sufficient tax contributions.
  • Impact: The retiree, assumed a citizen or fully insured, retains Medicare. If the elderly mother is an immigrant with insufficient work history, she could lose coverage, increasing costs ($5,000–$10,000/year for premiums/copays).
  • Expert Insight: Such restrictions could leave some seniors uninsured, straining family finances.
• Medicare Funding Cuts
  • Automatic 4% payment cuts ($500 billion over 8 years) start in 2026 due to increased federal spending.
  • Impact: Reduced provider payments may limit access, increasing wait times or costs for the retiree, disabled child, or elderly mother ($5,000–$10,000/year out-of-pocket).
• Medi-Cal Cuts and Restrictions
  • The bill cuts Medicaid by $700 billion over 10 years, with work requirements and verification rules. California faces reduced federal funding.
  • Impact:
    • The retiree is exempt from work requirements (age, caregiving). However, semi-annual re-enrollment could risk coverage loss for the disabled child or elderly mother if paperwork is missed.
    • Reduced home- and community-based services (HCBS) could force the retiree to pay $10,000–$20,000/year for private care.
  • California Context: California eliminated Medi-Cal asset limits in 2024, but a proposed $2,000 limit could disqualify the household ($400,000 assets), increasing costs for premiums ($174.70–$594/month/person) and HCBS ($1,000–$2,000/month).
  • Expert Insight: Cuts could lead to 7.8 million losing Medicaid by 2034, impacting seniors and disabled individuals.

3. Impact on Disabled Child and Elderly Mother

• Disabled Child
  • Medi-Cal cuts could disrupt services (e.g., aides, therapy), increasing costs ($10,000–$30,000/year) or caregiving burden. The care credit may offset some expenses.
  • Expert Insight: Coverage disruptions worsen health outcomes and raise long-term costs.
• Elderly Mother
  • HCBS cuts could force private care or nursing home placement ($8,000–$12,000/month). If an immigrant, Medicare loss adds costs.
  • Expert Insight: Reduced HCBS pushes families toward costly institutional care.

4. ACA Marketplace Changes

• Enhanced ACA premium tax credits expire in 2025, with new verification and $5/month fees for zero-premium plans.
• Impact: Less relevant if all are on Medicare/Medi-Cal. If the disabled child uses ACA plans, premiums could rise by $2,000–$5,000/year.
• Expert Insight: Expiring credits may leave 4.2 million uninsured by 2034.

5. Financial and Retirement Planning

• Asset Management
  • $400,000 in assets is at risk if Medi-Cal asset limits return, forcing spend-down. Care costs (e.g., $100,000/year for nursing home) could deplete savings in 4–5 years.
  • Expert Insight: Diversifying into exempt assets (e.g., trusts) protects against spend-down but incurs costs ($2,000–$5,000).
• HSA Contribution Limits
  • Increased limits ($4,300 single, $8,550 family) for incomes below $75,000/$150,000 could save $1,000–$2,000/year in taxes, but less relevant for Medicare enrollees.

6. Economic Context

• The bill’s $3 trillion deficit increase and $4–$5 trillion debt ceiling hike trigger Medicare cuts, risking further program reductions.
• Impact: Long-term fiscal pressure could increase reliance on personal savings.
• Expert Insight: Deficit-financed tax cuts disproportionately harm low-income and disabled program beneficiaries.

7. Projected Financial Impact (2025–2034)

• Best Case: $1,500–$2,500/year in tax/credit savings if income is low and Medi-Cal/HCBS remain intact.
• Worst Case: Medi-Cal loss and HCBS cuts add $25,000–$60,000/year in costs, depleting $400,000 in 6–16 years.
• Likely Scenario: Moderate tax savings ($500–$1,000/year), HCBS reductions add $10,000–$20,000/year, eroding assets in 10–20 years.

8. Expert Recommendations

• Tax: Consult a CPA to maximize deductions/credits and protect assets via trusts.
• Medical: Enroll in Medicare Savings Programs and advocate for state HCBS funding.
• Retirement: Consider long-term care insurance ($3,000–$5,000/year) to offset Medi-Cal risks.

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Notes

• The bill’s final provisions are pending Senate approval, and California’s budget decisions (e.g., asset limits) are speculative.
• Precise calculations require income and asset details (e.g., Social Security amount, liquid vs. illiquid assets).
• This analysis avoids news or partisan sources, relying on the bill, tax code, ACA, and expert insights.