Israel vs Hamas (2 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[UriUT]

It isn't worse than Biden's.

Infact, Trump doesn't really care about anything but himself, so the first time he asked Bibi to do something and Bibi told him no, he'd flip on Israel.

You are severely misinformed. I've posted a few articles in this thread. As a matter of fact, Bibi's policy is quietly to acquiesce to a dem president and wait for a Republican president to do as he pleases. He says he is all for a two state solution but once Trump comes in, he ignores all Palestinian grievances and bulldoze his way to getting more West Bank lands. While Obama and Biden opposes those measures despite heavy pro israeli forces.

 

[samiam5211]

You are severely misinformed. I've posted a few articles in this thread.

If Trump was president right now, what do you think Gaza would look like right now?

Could it be worse?

Let's not pretend that there is a meaningful difference. Biden supports Israel, because he personally has a deeply held belief that causes him to support the state of Israel.

 

[coldseat]

I don't really care if MAGA takes over if we are going to participate in ethnic cleansing with Biden.

Well, that's you I guess. I do care.

I think the likelihood that we are actually the ones carrying out the ethnic cleansing (and not merely providing weapons to Israel) goes up considerably if MAGA takes over. And I think there's a high probability it happens here in our oun country against our own population. Because that's what fascist right wing authoritarian governments do.

 

[DaveXA]

Right, because Biden does personally support what Israel has done since October 7.

You haven't been paying attention to what he's said since then.

He isn't better than Trump on this issue.

That's just absurd. And even if that were actually true, there are a whole host of other things that Trump would do that would hurt us worse. The cutting off nose to spite face feels like an appropriate metaphor here.

But since you're not reading the room, I don't expect any nuance in the discussion.

 

[UriUT]

If Trump was president right now, what do you think Gaza would look like right now?

Could it be worse?

Let's not pretend that there is a meaningful difference. Biden supports Israel, because he personally has a deeply held belief that causes him to support the state of Israel.

Yes, it's precisely Trump's policy of cutting Palestinian perspectives from any negotiation. He allowed land grab in the West Bank. He allowed the contentious choice to make Jerusalem the capital of Israel.

 

[samiam5211]

You haven't been paying attention to what he's said since then.

That's just absurd. And even if that were actually true, there are a whole host of other things that Trump would do that would hurt us worse. The cutting off nose to spite face feels like an appropriate metaphor here.

But since you're not reading the room, I don't expect any nuance in the discussion.

It really couldn't be much worse in Gaza than it is.

Sure, i guess they could have nuked Gaza and killed everyone, but lets be honest, that wouldn't be substantially worse than it is now?

 

[UriUT]

It really couldn't be much worse in Gaza than it is.

Sure, i guess they could have nuked Gaza and killed everyone, but lets be honest, that wouldn't be substantially worse than it is now?

You really think Trump won't allow unhindered actions? You are severely misinformed.

 

[samiam5211]

You really think Trump won't allow unhindered actions? You are severely misinformed.

I just don't care.

 

[DaveXA]

It really couldn't be much worse in Gaza than it is.

Sure, i guess they could have nuked Gaza and killed everyone, but lets be honest, that wouldn't be substantially worse than it is now?

Well others have already pointed out how it could be worse. It can always be worse. I do agree that Israel has massively overreacted and they should be held accountable. But diplomacy with our allies isn't some sort of on/off switch in terms of support.

Biden has on multiple occasions said Israel needs to slow their roll and confine their attacks to Hamas as much as possible. Whether his comments and policy position vis a vis approach towards Israel is enough is debatable, but he can only do so much. It's a complicated mess and I don't envy the position he's in.

 

[samiam5211]

Well others have already pointed out how it could be worse. It can always be worse. I do agree that Israel has massively overreacted and they should be held accountable. But diplomacy with our allies isn't some sort of on/off switch in terms of support.

Biden has on multiple occasions said Israel needs to slow their roll and confine their attacks to Hamas as much as possible. Whether his comments and policy position vis a vis approach towards Israel is enough is debatable, but he can only do so much. It's a complicated mess and I don't envy the position he's in.

It certainly can be an on/off switch.

he could veto the funding that is about to be put on his desk.

 

[DaveXA]

It certainly can be an on/off switch.

When you're President? On/off switches with allies are pretty rare. I can't think of the US ever doing that with an ally.

 

[UriUT]

I just don't care.

You're being a bit hypocritical are you not? You don't care that it will be much worse under Trump, but blame Biden for what's happening in Gaza. You advocate authoritarian invasion to impose what YOU want. I'm sorry, have a little perspective.

Just so you know, I agree with you on Israel, but Biden and Trump's stance aren't even in the same ball park. It's not even on the same planet. It will be considerably worse under Trump when Israel has zero checks on what they can and cannot do.

 

[samiam5211]

You're being a bit hypocritical are you not? You don't care that it will be much worse under Trump, but blame Biden for what's happening in Gaza. You advocate authoritarian invasion to impose what YOU want. I'm sorry, have a little perspective.

Just so you know, I agree with you on Israel, but Biden and Trump's stance aren't even in the same ball park. It's not even on the same planet. It will be considerably worse under Trump when Israel has zero checks on what they can and cannot do.

There isn't really a "worse" in Gaza that what has happened. Not of any substantive measure. It could not be worse for the people in Gaza that it is right now.

 

[UriUT]

There isn't really a "worse" in Gaza that what has happened. Not of any substantive measure. It could not be worse for the people in Gaza that it is right now.

You don't think having some semblance of aid and telling Israel enough is enough. Stop at Rafah. Trump wouldn't even consider any humanitarian aid. This isn't speculation. This is literally Kushner's stance of ignoring the Palestinians.

 

[coldseat]

It really couldn't be much worse in Gaza than it is.

Sure, i guess they could have nuked Gaza and killed everyone, but lets be honest, that wouldn't be substantially worse than it is now?

It was always going to bad for Palestinians once Hamas attacked Israel. No American president (past or future) was going to stop Israel from responding to the terrorist attack on October 8th.

It's really about the future now. Will Palestinians be allowed to move back into their lands, rebuild and have a hope for their own state in the future. Or will their lands be taken over indefinitely by Israel, the remaining Palestinians forced out and their lands turned into hotels and the French Rivera by Zionist? I'll give you one guess as to what side Trump is on.

 

[UriUT]

I was always going to bad for Palestinians once Hamas attacked Israel. No American president (past or future) was going to stop Israel from responding to the terrorist attack on October 8th.

It's really about the future now. Will Palestinians be allowed to move back into their lands, rebuild and have a hope for their own state in the future. Or will their lands be taken over indefinitely by Israel, the remaining Palestinians forced out and their lands turned into hotels and the French Rivera by Zionist? I'll give you one guess as to what side Trump is on.

Jared Kushner says Gaza’s ‘waterfront property could be very valuable’

Donald Trump’s son-in-law also says Israel should bulldoze an area of the Negev desert and move Palestinians there

www.theguardian.com

Jared Kushner has praised the “very valuable” potential of Gaza’s “waterfront property” and suggested Israel should remove civilians while it “cleans up” the strip.

No, both same side of the coin. /s

 

[samiam5211]

I was always going to bad for Palestinians once Hamas attacked Israel. No American president (past or future) was going to stop Israel from responding to the terrorist attack on October 8th.

It's really about the future now. Will Palestinians be allowed to move back into their lands, rebuild and have a hope for their own state in the future. Or will their lands be taken over indefinitely by Israel, the remaining Palestinians forced out and their lands turned into hotels and the French Rivera by Zionist? I'll give you one guess as to what side Trump is on.

I don't think Trump is on a different side from Biden on that.

There is 0 chance that Gaza is ever repopulated by Palestinians.

 

[coldseat]

I don't think Trump is on a different side from Biden on that.

They most definitely are.

There is 0 chance that Gaza is ever repopulated by Palestinians.

I hope you're wrong about that.