Israel vs Hamas (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[LA - L.A.]

It’s not just “bibi is bad”. Reminder: Most of Israel polled has been staunchly for the removal of Palestinian people from their land forcefully and for the continued destruction of Gaza.

West Bank sees biggest settler rampage since war in Gaza began as Israeli teen's body is found

Israeli settlers in the occupied West Bank have gone on the largest rampage against Palestinians there since the war in Gaza began.

apnews.com

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-calls-israel-end-support-settler-attacks-west-bank-2024-04-16/

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Hey Joe,

DON'T...DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bibi decided not to take the W, so when Iran strikes back, LET IT HAPPEN.

 

[zztop]

they just couldn't let it go

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/18/1245763498/israel-iran-missile-strikes

 

[Heathen]

How ironic if Israel is the start of WW3

 

[GrandAdmiral]

How ironic if Israel is the start of WW3

Was thinking the same thing. Israel will be the reason Biden loses the election IMHO. The warning signs are there and he refuses to acknowledge it.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Was thinking the same thing. Israel will be the reason Biden loses the election IMHO. The warning signs are there and he refuses to acknowledge it.

I think Biden mistakenly thinks he needs the US based Israeli lobbies to fund and endorse him to win the election and I think he mistakenly trusts that they will do that.

I think Bibi would rather Trump as president and a more fascist America, so I think the Israeli lobbies will stab Biden in the back in October.

The US being the only country to veto the UN resolution recognizing Palestinian statehood would cause him to loose the election if it were held right now.

It remains to be seen where things stand come election day, but right now it's not looking good.

You should always do the right thing, but when you're in a no win situation, you absolutely should do the right thing. Biden needs to figure that out in a hurry.

 

[Heathen]

We just approved billions in aid to Israel.

 

[zztop]

We just approved billions in aid to Israel.

I don't like it either, but I am afraid it was an all-or-nothing situation (Ukraine aid would only get approved if this aid was attached as well)

 

[GrandAdmiral]

I'm going to say it again, if anything causes Biden the election, it's his handling of the devastation in Gaza.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/22/business/columbia-tensions-passover-virtual-classes/index.html

 

[UriUT]

I'm going to say it again, if anything causes Biden the election, it's his handling of the devastation in Gaza.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/22/business/columbia-tensions-passover-virtual-classes/index.html

I saw a poll within the last month that 51% of Americans support the Palestinians. There are approximately 100 progressives in congress and not all would agree on israel. One quit the caucus because of the caucus' stance overall against israel. We have powerful pro-israeli lobbies against politicians and pro Palestinian individuals.

So what would you have Biden do? Do you think the in your face, aggressive approach of blocking individual jews helps the Palestinian cause? Come to a professor's home and disrupt a gathering shouting and antagonize the professor. Do you think these actions help?

Obama in Israel: A President at Large

If Obama uses this trip as a first step of many in a concerted effort to persuade, to push, yes, to risk political capital in the name of a peace process, …

www.newyorker.com

Obama talks frequently about how early civil-rights leaders came to Franklin Roosevelt, asking him to take action, only to have F.D.R. reply, in essence, “make me.” Force my hand. Create a real movement.

I get the frustration. You can search my history and find that I've not been at all complementary of israeli's policies. However, just because one have the moral high ground doesnt mean one has universal support. We need to realize that. Though support and empathy for Palestinians are now a slim majority, there is still strong political support for Israel. Even Fetterman chastise democrats for not supporting Israel after Iran's attack.

The pro-israel side aren't laying down on pressuring Biden either. I have noticed numerous attacks on the pro Palestinian movements on threads and media, labeling them as antisemite. A usc student who earned the right to speak as a valedictorian will not be allowed because of the fear of some anti Israeli message. Student protests are labeled as harassment. Rich donors are pulling their contributions from universities. Obama was labeled an antisemite when he lightly criticized israel.

With that, I believe this is a delicate dance for Biden. Rumor, and Netanyahu is pissed about this, is that the us will sanction an idf unit. We ve already sanctioned some west Bank settlers. These are big steps whether we believe this is piecemeal or not. Unfortunately, israel is still an ally. I don't believe that it's still allies of like minds either. Heck, it's not even an ally of convenience, as it's disruptive to our foreign policy. Israel's response to Iran's counter to israel bombing their consulate should be a tell that they don't care much about what the us says. And it is because they have political cover in the US. Netnayahu's such a pompous asshat that after meeting Bill Clinton, Clinton's response was, "who's the superpower here?" And I've seen reports that Biden have been screaming at Israeli leadership for months.

 

[samiam5211]

I saw a poll within the last month that 51% of Americans support the Palestinians. There are approximately 100 progressives in congress and not all would agree on israel. One quit the caucus because of the caucus' stance overall against israel. We have powerful pro-israeli lobbies against politicians and pro Palestinian individuals.

So what would you have Biden do? Do you think the in your face, aggressive approach of blocking individual jews helps the Palestinian cause? Come to a professor's home and disrupt a gathering shouting and antagonize the professor. Do you think these actions help?

Obama in Israel: A President at Large

If Obama uses this trip as a first step of many in a concerted effort to persuade, to push, yes, to risk political capital in the name of a peace process, …

www.newyorker.com

I get the frustration. You can search my history and find that I've not been at all complementary of israeli's policies. However, just because one have the moral high ground doesnt mean one has universal support. We need to realize that. Though support and empathy for Palestinians are now a slim majority, there is still strong political support for Israel. Even Fetterman chastise democrats for not supporting Israel after Iran's attack.

The pro-israel side aren't laying down on pressuring Biden either. I have noticed numerous attacks on the pro Palestinian movements on threads and media, labeling them as antisemite. A usc student who earned the right to speak as a valedictorian will not be allowed because of the fear of some anti Israeli message. Student protests are labeled as harassment. Rich donors are pulling their contributions from universities. Obama was labeled an antisemite when he lightly criticized israel.

With that, I believe this is a delicate dance for Biden. Rumor, and Netanyahu is pissed about this, is that the us will sanction an idf unit. We ve already sanctioned some west Bank settlers. These are big steps whether we believe this is piecemeal or not. Unfortunately, israel is still an ally. I don't believe that it's still allies of like minds either. Heck, it's not even an ally of convenience, as it's disruptive to our foreign policy. Israel's response to Iran's counter to israel bombing their consulate should be a tell that they don't care much about what the us says. And it is because they have political cover in the US. Netnayahu's such a pompous asshat that after meeting Bill Clinton, Clinton's response was, "who's the superpower here?" And I've seen reports that Biden have been screaming at Israeli leadership for months.

Israel shouldn't be considered an ally.

We should entirely cut off all aid, 100%.

Biden should be leading instead of trying to thread a needle, but he can't lead, because he is as loyal to Israel as he is the US.

 

[UriUT]

Israel shouldn't be considered an ally.

We should entirely cut off all aid, 100%.

Biden should be leading instead of trying to thread a needle, but he can't lead, because he is as loyal to Israel as he is the US.

You say this, but how's he going to lead without support? My point is that sure, he can cut off aid and I'm all for that, but with who's support? About half of the dem's support? He cannot afford to be idealistic here. This is Bernie bros all over again.

 

[DaveXA]

Israel shouldn't be considered an ally.

We should entirely cut off all aid, 100%.

Biden should be leading instead of trying to thread a needle, but he can't lead, because he is as loyal to Israel as he is the US.

I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment, but that will never happen. Certainly not anytime soon. And a whole lot more people than Biden are loyal to Israel, on both sides of the aisle.

That said, I think the way to approach this is to make it clear to Israel that our support isn't unconditional and we should withhold our support until they slow their roll. We can't force Bibi out, but their people can if we pull the right levers.

 

[samiam5211]

You say this, but how's he going to lead without support? My point is that sure, he can cut off aid and I'm all for that, but with who's support? About half of the dem's support? He cannot afford to be idealistic here. This is Bernie bros all over again.

It isn't leadership if you just go along with where you have support.

Biden is pro Israel. There isn't anything that is going to change that. He's not going to criticize Israel, because he is personally an Israel supporter.

 

[UriUT]

It isn't leadership if you just go along with where you have support.

Biden is pro Israel. There isn't anything that is going to change that. He's not going to criticize Israel, because he is personally an Israel supporter.

Believe it or not, he is exhibiting leadership. He isn't going to lose the war to win a battle. We aren't living in some authoritarian regime where he does as he pleases. Consider this. With all the evidence coming from Gaza, only half of Americans support the Palestinians. There is an incumbent Dem who voted against the Israeli aid. She now has to defend against that political pressure. We'll see how that goes today.

And as FDR says, "make him". Even with his considerable political capital, he dared not poke the hornet's nest of what is the civil rights. Start a real movement.

 

[samiam5211]

Believe it or not, he is exhibiting leadership. He isn't going to lose the war to win a battle. We aren't living in some authoritarian regime where he does as he pleases. Consider this. With all the evidence coming from Gaza, only half of Americans support the Palestinians. There is an incumbent Dem who voted against the Israeli aid. She now has to defend against that political pressure. We'll see how that goes today.

And as FDR says, "make him". Even with his considerable political capital, he dared not poke the hornet's nest of what is the civil rights. Start a real movement.

Only half of Americans support the Palestinians, because our leaders are not standing up for the principles we are supposed to believe in.

People are followers. They will go where they are led.

 

[coldseat]

It isn't leadership if you just go along with where you have support.

Biden is pro Israel. There isn't anything that is going to change that. He's not going to criticize Israel, because he is personally an Israel supporter.

Do you believe it is practical, legal and feasible for Biden to end all support (economic and militarily) of Israel? Is that the only action that will address the concerns, outrage and demands of those protesting all over the country? Is that in the best long term interest of the United States?

 

[UriUT]

Only half of Americans support the Palestinians, because our leaders are not standing up for the principles we are supposed to believe in.

People are followers. They will go where they are led.

You understand that changing hearts and minds isn't like switching a light switch on and off? How did the LGBT movement gain acceptance? It isn't because Obama stood on his bully pulpit. The LGBT movement used the legal system and appropriate PR mechanism. It took years, and not folks gluing their hands to the pavement.